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Goodbye, Tidal

beefkabob

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#1
I did the cheap Tidal family trial for several months. It did not work out for us.
My daughter never even used it. She just kept using Spotify, with all her playlists.
My son tried it a bit, but he had Spotify lists already. He has a Discord bot that automatically streams the audio of music videos off youtube that are on his Spotify list.
I downloaded some songs into my phone, but it's a pain to manage the songs. The interface is clunky.
Then I tried to download some songs at the office, with the fast internet, for offline usage at home, with the slow, metered internet. DENIED! Can't do it. Not an option. No offline on the PC. So I stopped using Tidal too.
I did buy a CD from Amazon during this time. Took almost a month to arrive.
Not impressed with any of the options, not at all.

So bye, Tidal. You won't be missed or even thought of.
 

Jimbob54

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#3
I did the cheap Tidal family trial for several months. It did not work out for us.
My daughter never even used it. She just kept using Spotify, with all her playlists.
My son tried it a bit, but he had Spotify lists already. He has a Discord bot that automatically streams the audio of music videos off youtube that are on his Spotify list.
I downloaded some songs into my phone, but it's a pain to manage the songs. The interface is clunky.
Then I tried to download some songs at the office, with the fast internet, for offline usage at home, with the slow, metered internet. DENIED! Can't do it. Not an option. No offline on the PC. So I stopped using Tidal too.
I did buy a CD from Amazon during this time. Took almost a month to arrive.
Not impressed with any of the options, not at all.

So bye, Tidal. You won't be missed or even thought of.
I love tidal but then I have little need or desire to download locally. Interestingly, I got the family plan and my wife couldnt deal with it and , like your daughter, stuck with spotify. There is a workaround for playlist migration between all streaming services but its 3rd party and has a fee (but it works) .

I cant shake the feeling that when all the streaming services go lossless, it is just a commodity service and Spotify may end up as the equivalent of Google for searching. Ubiquitous.
 

MattHooper

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#4
I find Tidal clunky too. And for library building/organizing almost useless. But, it's the lossless streaming system that, at least at the time I bought in, organized most easily in to my squeeze-box based system. Too lazy to change at the moment.
 

Tks

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#5
I never understood the premise. Lossless streaming? Don't really understand why, seeing as how critical listening is required to have a faint hope of differentiating something like V0 MP3 vs FLAC.

Reminds me of folks who must have RAW images for their uploads to Instagram.. Even compressed JPEGs with barely any headroom for editing suffice when realizing that compression yet again sets in from Instagram's end.
 

RayDunzl

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#6
Last edited:

Dialectic

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#7
I kissed it goodbye a few months ago. I was annoyed to find out I'd been overpaying for one main account plus four family subscriptions for relatives for over a year (approx. $50/month) after Tidal had changed their pricing to a flat monthly fee of $29.99 for up to five logins.

Their classical selection and metadata are suspect at best, and a lot the rips on Tidal have ticks and pops. (When I reported such ticks and pops to Tidal, I always got an "it's not our fault" response, and it was never fixed. In contrast, I can rip CDs that appear to have been destroyed with no ticks and pops through an ancient Plextor IDE drive I keep around for ripping.) The Tidal home screen would bombard me with music that I am obviously not interested in hearing. Not a good experience.

I will keep buying and ripping CDs and SACDs, thank you.

And my advice to the folks who work at Tidal is to keep wasting Jay-Z's money and enjoying the gravy train.
 

Jimbob54

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#8
I never understood the premise. Lossless streaming? Don't really understand why, seeing as how critical listening is required to have a faint hope of differentiating something like V0 MP3 vs FLAC.

Reminds me of folks who must have RAW images for their uploads to Instagram.. Even compressed JPEGs with barely any headroom for editing suffice when realizing that compression yet again sets in from Instagram's end.
I'll bite. What format, sample rate, bit depth etc do you use for your listening? Is it the same regardless of setting/system?
 

DuxServit

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#9
I will keep buying and ripping CDs and SACDs, thank you.
Same for me, CDs, SACDs and HiRes purchases.

I’m on an Apple Music family account (6 people $14/mo), so I get the chance to listen to Apple-quality music before buying the disc.
 
OP
B

beefkabob

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Thread Starter #10
I had a better (to me) reason to cancel mine (one month paid, long ago)
That's your right, but the number of offensive songs out there is long. You just might not realize it.
 

RayDunzl

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#11
I realize it.

I wouldn't know "the number".
 

DChenery

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#12
I'll bite. What format, sample rate, bit depth etc do you use for your listening? Is it the same regardless of setting/system?
Not who you asked, but I butt in anyway. Used to insist on a minimum of Redbook (44/16), and if available would download the HiRez (96/24). After listening to the HiRez versions, I really couldn't tell the difference, so assumed it was the DAC. Bought a Topping DX3Pro V1 and Sennheiser HD660's. Installed ABX on Foobar and did some trials. Still couldn't tell the difference. Did an additional experiment by ripping some CD's to Mp3 320 format (LAME encoder in Foobar2K). With my set up and obviously tin ears, could not discern between the MP3's and the HiRez with normal listening. Again tried ABX with first MP3 and Redbook, and then MP3 and HiRez. Never got better than guessing in any of the trials.

Finally, did some listening comparing Spotify premium with rips of the same recording I have. Shockingly, under normal listening, I could not hear any difference!!! There were a few songs where I think that the percussion may sound a little different on the Spotify version, but it is only noticeable (to me) under intense scrunity, which is not the way I prefer to listen to music. (Note hard to compare as no ABX possible).

So, gave up on the expensive HIRez downloads and cancelled the Tidal streaming, and have been more that happy with Spotify Premium (RM15.00 /month or about USD 3.50/month) here in Malaysia. As they say YMMV.
 
Last edited:

Tks

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#13
I'll bite. What format, sample rate, bit depth etc do you use for your listening? Is it the same regardless of setting/system?
(TL;DR is at the bottom, I thought this would be a quick reply, but I guess I have can't piece together my thoughts this late at night)

As for specific sample-rates/bit-depth and such, I just go with whatever offers 24-bit, and as for the sample rate (if 24-bit is offered at 48kHz, I'll get that, if it's offered at 96kHz, I'll get that).

If it's at home listening, then naturally lossless since that's what I have on hand from primary purchases (FLAC being my favorite, as Wav doesn't make sense due to metadata limitations, and just pointless filesizes), and perhaps DSD produced music (just so you don't have to worry about DoP conversion being inadequate or something).

So I personally listen to FLAC mostly at home (some older obscure music from DJ's I can't find in lossless format, so I settle for whatever).

The type of system isn't pertinent, so much as intent and location. If it's listening with eyes open and not much attention on the music (like walking around on the street, or using portable sources), I feel either Opus (my new de facto favorite lossy format for the incredible space savings on taking huge libraries with you on a USB stick for example), or just MP3 VBR V0 seeing as how many sources aren't capable of properly handling Opus sans-Ogg containers for whatever reason, while MP3 320 just having some data showing 320 kbps is sometimes worse than V0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I don't really use Spotify or any other streaming service, most of my stuff is purchased or ripped from purchased discs (I like to buy discs if they're offered). At home, regardless of setting, I listen to my music at the highest format offered, regardless of my setting/system. On my iPhone I like to just load up MP3 V0 (since this retarded company will not support Opus natively after all these years). But yeah, otherwise, the best possible if I'm at home (as I don't want to convert to a bunch of different formats, just MP3 V0). But yeah, the only reason for having lossless is simply archival purposes, and whenever I convert, I would be working with the proper source. I don't want to convert lossy to lossy a bunch of times.

Oh I just remembered, I do listen to a streaming service. Amazon's. But that's only because it's included with my Prime, and only when my computer isn't on for JRiver to send music across the network to my TV.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR

I like having offline lossless files for archival purposes, and listen to those since hard drives are cheap.

For mobile sources, I go lossy almost exclusively since Apple's piece of shit stubborness will never allow SD Cards, nor Opus, so I resort to MP3 256 VBR. I'm looking at dumping iPhones, but their hardware is my favorite, and their software support and just overall UI/UX is most pleasing since I don't like doing too many crazy things with my phone anyway. Looking to get an LG V50 or something and put an end to this, but I'm on the fence.

I stream from Amazon Music when my computer isn't on (so that's lossy as well).

I'm also hoping JRiver team wakes up and finally start to support Opus (they're being coy and saying "Jriver can play Opus files just fine", when the issue is importing of metadata is non-existent). Likewise with the rest of the industry, and especially mobile devices. The storage and battery savings from having such small files (96kbps is more than enough for me), I imagine would be a boon to this plague of poor battery life from so many devices on the market these days.
 
D

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#14
Tidal is certainly not on par with Spotify feature wise, but I do not think the UI is unusably bad (especially comparing to the horrid Amazon Music Desktop App). Apple Music was also no quite there when I checked it last time. Mobile Tidal App is fine imho. It's not Tidal's fault that people are so used to Spotify.

I'm using Tidal whenever they have one of their ridiculously long trail periods but otherwise Spotify for cost.
 

FrantzM

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#16
I like Roon and Spotify. I use both,
At this point in time, I can't hear any difference between streaming from Spotify or Tidal lossless.
I have a personal library of more than 3000 CDs. Roon keeps a good track of it and mix it well with Tidal for anything not-Western-Classical. There has been a constant buzz of RoonLabs working on a better way to deal with the different requirements of Western Classical music . They are far from "there" at the moment, IMO.
On a different front. I currently spend $40.month to have access to , what I would call, an infinitely large music library. (Roon/Tidal and Spotify). I consider this a bargain. YMMV
 

Jimbob54

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#17
(TL;DR is at the bottom, I thought this would be a quick reply, but I guess I have can't piece together my thoughts this late at night)

As for specific sample-rates/bit-depth and such, I just go with whatever offers 24-bit, and as for the sample rate (if 24-bit is offered at 48kHz, I'll get that, if it's offered at 96kHz, I'll get that).

If it's at home listening, then naturally lossless since that's what I have on hand from primary purchases (FLAC being my favorite, as Wav doesn't make sense due to metadata limitations, and just pointless filesizes), and perhaps DSD produced music (just so you don't have to worry about DoP conversion being inadequate or something).

So I personally listen to FLAC mostly at home (some older obscure music from DJ's I can't find in lossless format, so I settle for whatever).

The type of system isn't pertinent, so much as intent and location. If it's listening with eyes open and not much attention on the music (like walking around on the street, or using portable sources), I feel either Opus (my new de facto favorite lossy format for the incredible space savings on taking huge libraries with you on a USB stick for example), or just MP3 VBR V0 seeing as how many sources aren't capable of properly handling Opus sans-Ogg containers for whatever reason, while MP3 320 just having some data showing 320 kbps is sometimes worse than V0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I don't really use Spotify or any other streaming service, most of my stuff is purchased or ripped from purchased discs (I like to buy discs if they're offered). At home, regardless of setting, I listen to my music at the highest format offered, regardless of my setting/system. On my iPhone I like to just load up MP3 V0 (since this retarded company will not support Opus natively after all these years). But yeah, otherwise, the best possible if I'm at home (as I don't want to convert to a bunch of different formats, just MP3 V0). But yeah, the only reason for having lossless is simply archival purposes, and whenever I convert, I would be working with the proper source. I don't want to convert lossy to lossy a bunch of times.

Oh I just remembered, I do listen to a streaming service. Amazon's. But that's only because it's included with my Prime, and only when my computer isn't on for JRiver to send music across the network to my TV.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR

I like having offline lossless files for archival purposes, and listen to those since hard drives are cheap.

For mobile sources, I go lossy almost exclusively since Apple's piece of shit stubborness will never allow SD Cards, nor Opus, so I resort to MP3 256 VBR. I'm looking at dumping iPhones, but their hardware is my favorite, and their software support and just overall UI/UX is most pleasing since I don't like doing too many crazy things with my phone anyway. Looking to get an LG V50 or something and put an end to this, but I'm on the fence.

I stream from Amazon Music when my computer isn't on (so that's lossy as well).

I'm also hoping JRiver team wakes up and finally start to support Opus (they're being coy and saying "Jriver can play Opus files just fine", when the issue is importing of metadata is non-existent). Likewise with the rest of the industry, and especially mobile devices. The storage and battery savings from having such small files (96kbps is more than enough for me), I imagine would be a boon to this plague of poor battery life from so many devices on the market these days.
I think there is a key difference in our use cases which explains why I want a lossless streaming service and you rightly dont see the need. I took the decision to try and move away from "buying" music- be that CD or FLAC online. I cant quite get there because streaming doesnt have some of my records . But I use Roon to blend my local and streaming libraries. So I needed a streaming service where I wouldnt "lose" quality on my home system over ripped redbook. Until Amazon HD entered the frey, that was Tidal or Qobuz, Qobuz doesnt offer a family plan so Tidal it was . Not an MQA decsion btw, I would rather have Qobuz Hi -res.

Financially streaming makes sense to me, as I tend to add 5 to 10 releases a week to my library, whereas I could only buy 1 or 2 releases per month for my Tidal sub.

If I only wanted streaming for mobile / car purposes I would have gone Spotify or cheaper Tidal tier because yes, even with a good pair of IEMs , there will be no noticeable impact.

Each to their own, I'm not hairshirted about "quality" , but for my use ,lossless streaming or better is a no brainer.
 

Jimbob54

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#18
I like Roon and Spotify. I use both,
At this point in time, I can't hear any difference between streaming from Spotify or Tidal lossless.
I have a personal library of more than 3000 CDs. Roon keeps a good track of it and mix it well with Tidal for anything not-Western-Classical. There has been a constant buzz of RoonLabs working on a better way to deal with the different requirements of Western Classical music . They are far from "there" at the moment, IMO.
On a different front. I currently spend $40.month to have access to , what I would call, an infinitely large music library. (Roon/Tidal and Spotify). I consider this a bargain. YMMV
Basically me too.
 

Jimbob54

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#19
Not who you asked, but I butt in anyway. Used to insist on a minimum of Redbook (44/16), and if available would download the HiRez (96/24). After listening to the HiRez versions, I really couldn't tell the difference, so assumed it was the DAC. Bought a Topping DX3Pro V1 and Sennheiser HD660's. Installed ABX on Foobar and did some trials. Still couldn't tell the difference. Did an additional experiment by ripping some CD's to Mp3 320 format (LAME encoder in Foobar2K). With my set up and obviously tin ears, could not discern between the MP3's and the HiRez with normal listening. Again tried ABX with first MP3 and Redbook, and then MP3 and HiRez. Never got better than guessing in any of the trials.

Finally, did some listening comparing Spotify premium with rips of the same recording I have. Shockingly, under normal listening, I could not hear any difference!!! There were a few songs where I think that the percussion may sound a little different on the Spotify version, but it is only noticeable (to me) under intense scrunity, which is not the way I prefer to listen to music. (Note hard to compare as no ABX possible).

So, gave up on the expensive HIRez downloads and cancelled the Tidal streaming, and have been more that happy with Spotify Premium (RM15.00 /month or about USD 3.50/month) here in Malaysia. As they say YMMV.
Exactly- I'm all for anything that works best for each use case- posted my reasonings a couple of minutes ago. I'll add Spotify doesnt work with Roon, which seems to be what I have committed to for in house listening.
 
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#20
I’m able to add Tidal Masters to my Third Man Vault subscription for $5/quarter. It’s integration with my library via Roon makes it a convenient way to sample new stuff before buying physical or to simply add stuff I don’t value enough to buy.

I do agree that the app and interface is kind of clunky but for the way I use Tidal via Roon it’s a non-issue.
 

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