Good sound , low volume?

[Petrushka]

Nobody mentioned sensitivity. Speaker with high sensitivity ratings are easier to drive at lower power and will reveal more of the frequency range at low power. Look for something with 90 dB and above sensitivity.

I dont see how this follows. 90 dB is loud. 70 is medium soft. Not likely to annoy neighbors.

A high efficiency speaker would require 0.01 Watt.

 

[Marc v E]

I have a variable loudness in my loudspeakers and would recommend it highly. I always miss it sorely when I audition other speakers. Rme adi fs dac is what I would choose if I would want a stereo system.

Speakers that image well are usually coaxial monitors and professional monitors. Kef and Genelec for instance. In my experience Kef ls50 needs lots of power. Maybe Kef lsx ?
Genelec the ones serie images beautifully but has a price to match its performance.


Great question by the way.

 

[Timcognito]

I dont see how this follows. 90 dB is loud. 70 is medium soft. Not likely to annoy neighbors.

A high efficiency amp would require 0.01 Watt.

To standardize sensitivity, it's a measure of the volume (in dB) at 1 meter away from a speaker when 1 watt of power is being fed into it. Speakers frequently have a sensitivity of around 87 dB. A speaker is considered excellent if it has a sensitivity rating above 90 dB. Less power will excite more of the drivers and excursion with less resistance to movement.

 

[mhardy6647]

HI All,
I am looking and hoping to set up a system that sounds great at low volume. Now, being back in an apartment and having neighbours, I
need to be considerate about my noise levels. So.. I am trying to figure a system that sounds great with imaging , but at low volumes.

Any ideas or suggestions? I am sure many others have been in this position.


Thanks

Steven.

Nobody here will like my answer.

Something along the lines of (vintage) Altec Duplexes (604E, in my case -- with Mastering Labs crossovers) are remarkably full sounding even at very low volume levels sans any additional EQ or finagling. It's a hallmark of all of the vintage Altec drivers (and many of their classic horns, though not all) that I've heard -- but the Duplex configuration may be the most practical for an average listening space. They require very little power, too ( use 3-ish watt per channel amplification).
Stereo image is also very good, with one caveat -- the 'sweet spot' for truly 3D, full-range presentation is limited by (I presume) the treble horn's dispersion characteristics.
If you've never heard them -- listen to a pair sometime.
They sound good at fairly high SPL, too.

 

[LTig]

Nobody mentioned sensitivity. Speaker with high sensitivity ratings are easier to drive at lower power and will reveal more of the frequency range at low power. Look for something with 90 dB and above sensitivity.

They play louder with low power and hence need less loudness. I don't think though this is what the OP meant.

 

[7jm]

I've wanted to have a loudness circuit (preferably dynamic) but the only option seems to be the rme which is expensive if that's really the only feature you require. I took listen mainly at lower volumes and require a 'bump' to engage with the music more.

Currently I do this by adjusting the target curve in my wiim peq to something that compensates for the low level, however this is a static eq and sounds over egged when the volume goes up, it's too much faff to have another peq profile for louder levels, bearing in mind that the peq curves are already doing the room modes corrections.
I did toy with the idea of getting a hardware eq like the loki to avoid messing with screens even though there would be a noise penalty but really I listen to most music within a narrow enough db window.

 

[Oddball]

It's difficult to tell what is your endgame. Your want to reason with your neighbours or avoid any arguments? What would be the levels they complain at and for what particular range.

It might be a very different answer depending on the construction properties of your flat and how you share walls etc. with your neighbours.

 

[Sokel]

Nobody here will like my answer.

Something along the lines of (vintage) Altec Duplexes (604E, in my case -- with Mastering Labs crossovers) are remarkably full sounding even at very low volume levels sans any additional EQ or finagling. It's a hallmark of all of the vintage Altec drivers (and many of their classic horns, though not all) that I've heard -- but the Duplex configuration may be the most practical for an average listening space. They require very little power, too ( use 3-ish watt per channel amplification).
Stereo image is also very good, with one caveat -- the 'sweet spot' for truly 3D, full-range presentation is limited by (I presume) the treble horn's dispersion characteristics.
If you've never heard them -- listen to a pair sometime.
They sound good at fairly high SPL, too.

Noboby will like my answer too.
The bigger the speakers (both size and drivers) the better they sound at low levels.

Maybe something with the sensitivity as mentioned earlier,maybe something else.
Also at low levels big speakers disappear completely.

 

[Timcognito]

They play louder with low power and hence need less loudness. I don't think though this is what the OP meant.

The high sensitivity drivers need less energy especially at low frequencies with less augmenting of the EQ, which will work also. This is why horns are used with low powered class A amps. Bass boost is an option but can be fussy. Placing speakers near the wall increases their ability to play at low volumes but defeats the goal of not disturbing neighbors.

 

[mhardy6647]

Noboby will like my answer too.
The bigger the speakers (both size and drivers) the better they sound at low levels.

Maybe something with the sensitivity as mentioned earlier,maybe something else.
Also at low levels big speakers disappear completely.

I skipped mentioning that bit
Yes, it seems, empirically, to be often the case -- perhaps it is really true, too.

PS I like your answer.
Listening to old fashioned fadeouts on, e.g., 70s hits is quite a remarkable experience with the aforementioned Duplexes -- or the rather cobbled together Frankenaltec configuration that has taken their place here. They are not small loudspeakers.


(one of the pair is visible in the corner, on the right side of the image)

 

[pos]

The bigger the speakers (both size and drivers) the better they sound at low levels.

That has been my experience as well.

 

[Selkirks]

I had a similar dilemma, mainly with night listening. Pairing a 15 inch full range driver with 12 inch horns (1800 Hz) and utilizing EQ helped me achieve the result I was hoping for. I simply hear more due to the driver size and night settings, my smaller speakers need to be played louder to hear everything.

 

[Chrispy]

For my use, in a variety of systems, I generally prefer the Audyssey DynEQ curve in the units that have that. Otherwise, a bit of bass boost will generally suffice. Size of room and speakers are one thing, but eq still is often necessary just for our hearing preferences....

 

[Fredygump]

HI All,
I am looking and hoping to set up a system that sounds great at low volume. Now, being back in an apartment and having neighbours, I
need to be considerate about my noise levels. So.. I am trying to figure a system that sounds great with imaging , but at low volumes.

Any ideas or suggestions? I am sure many others have been in this position.


Thanks

Steven.

I think we tend to turn up the volume when we want to hear something in the music that doesn't come through clearly on the speakers, but turning up the volume doesn't fix the problem. Like we can't clearly hear the bass line, so we crank the volume and we still can't really tell what the bass is doing.

I'd recommend studio monitor speakers for a simple set up that sounds great. I find speakers that are very detailed do not need to be loud to create an immersive sound. You just need ~30dB above ambient noise levels. I previously had Genelec monitors, and it is a strange sensation to feel that the music is loud when it is only like 65dB!

I like monitor speakers because you don't need external amps, so you can have an extremely simple setup. You'd probably want a DAC too, but that isn't strictly necessary.

I'm not saying that monitor speakers are better than book shelf speakers, because they are bookshelf speakers. But I have more confidence that they will be accurate. And with monitor speakers, you escape the audiophile sales pitches!

[Edit: modern music recordings have a very limited dynamic range, so a tool that compresses music that is already compressed to an inch of it's life really isn't going to be much of a benefit. It would make more sense in a home theater, since movie soundtracks typically have a lot more dynamic range. But if the goal is stereo speakers for music, just get good quality speakers and play them at a modest level.]

 

[A Surfer]

Maybe I'm just getting cranky, I hope not. But I am not a fan of an OP checking out of the thread they start. Like it seems this one. How many posts that have not been acknowledged since the original post?

 

[Mean & Green]

... or bringing the speakers closer to you!
A pair of relatively small speakers (5" 2-ways) positioned within arm's length can perform wonders. If you really need deeper bass, you can add a small sub, set to reasonable level. The neighbors might not hear a thing.

I agree abut the sub.

Subs are so much more than shaking walls and pounding bass. They really fill out the sound field and give an illusion of depth and space beneficial at low levels.

If it is a strictly low volume only system id be inclined to avoid smaller speakers and go with high sensitivity speakers with at least 6" or 8" woofers placed near field. A little EQ can also help.

 

[jeffaegrim]

That has been my experience as well.

Dito. I always thought this might be due to the additional headroom provided by larger/more drivers. I wonder if it has anything to do with the dispersion characteristics of horns as well. Several examples above in the thread seem to be horn speakers

 

[Waxx]

I had that problem also in the past and found out that you need speakers that react on a very small signal. Low mms (light cones) and high BL (strong magnet) for the drivers helps a lot on that.

I use a diy single driver fullrange setup that works for me but that kind of system has disadvantages also (not so good dispertion, limited in volume and higher distortion). I used ripole subs in the past with it, as they don't tend to load the room and are very neighbour friendly. Those were also diy and not mine (i had to return them to the owner). You can 't find those subs in commercial build as the inventor patented it, but does not sell any models at the moment (he did in the past). There are a few (licenced) variations of it that are sold in Germany that do the same trick. I'm not ware of commercial builds but the original design is also availeble for diy use.

But in general, you want speakers that react good on low wattage signal. Sensitive speakers are indeed easier to drive, on condition that their cone mass is low and BL is high and that the filter is not obstructing the signal. Put them close and keep your sub (if you have any) also close so you can listen on low volume. Therefor bookshelfs are often better than floorstanders, and if you miss subbass, get an extra subwoofer, preferable a dipole one (ripole or other) that does not load the room as much. A sealed close by can also be good, horn (tapped or other) or reflexes tend to be most annoying for neighbours as they load the room and easely go trough walls.

My fullrange bookshelfs are about 50cm from my ears, and when I had the sub, it was below my desk (where the speakers were). Today i use them without sub, in a rebuild enclosure that is tuned bettter (i build the first version long ago when i did not know enough about speaker design to do it right), but i still will make some ripole subs for this setup in the near future. They are my office system since longtime.

What also helps is a loudness function on your amp or dsp, that eq's regular speakers who tend to loos bass and treble on very low volumes.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

According to loudness graphs, at low volume listening you should emphasize bass (and highs) in order to get similar Phons/sones levels.

You get a 3dB loss each meter of distance between your sitting position and sound font (speaker). The closer you sit to that font, the lower you can set the volume.

I got impressed when I put a subwoofer just behind my sitting position. At low volume listening bass is rich without disturbing your neighbors.

Trick: The higher you set the crossover of the subwoofer, the fuller you get the bass at low volume listening. Specially when using sealed and active subs that won’t require to share the power with other speakers.

Other improvements you could try:
-at low delivery, every amp will give you slightly different power response. They should all be linear but the aren’t. Try different amps.
-the same argument is applicable to speakers. Some speakers will require more power to release a full range experience. Try different speakers.
-when playing various speakers from the same amp/AVR at different distances to your ears, the volume level you get will vary in a non linear way. At high volumes the front speakers should sound stronger, but at very low volumen, the closer speakers will have more presence. Try different base volume and distances to speakers and subs.

I’ve been very obsessed with this issue of low volume listening as I have very sensible neighbors. I started with a low cost Denon AVR (DRA800h) and 2 Wharfedale Denton 85, and I was unable to get rich sound at low volume. I moved to a more powerful stereo amp (Audiolab 9000A) and experience improved a lot. Latter on, changed the Dentons for the Lintons and bass experience improved. Recently I got a SVS SB2000 subwoofer and now I feel a richer full range experience without disturbing my neighbors. Additionally I have a MiniDSP Flex with Dirac, and those peaks and nulls of power have been uniformized.

It takes time and money to get good low volume listening, at least without headphones or sitting really close to the speakers.

 

[Manukatche]

You can glue egg boxes to your walls, I thinks it's the better way to listen to music without disturbing your neighbors.