Good open-back ~$200-ish headphone?

[KeithPhantom]

How is the soundstage and imaging on the Hd6xx? Heard they don't necessarily excel at that, which is an important to quality to have for use during gaming.

Not good. Also, the imaging is somewhat limited and only "three-directional": left, center, and right.

 

[solderdude]

For those willing to wait a week there might be an interesting option around the corner (IMHO).

 

[KeithPhantom]

For those willing to wait a week there might be an interesting option around the corner (IMHO).

What option? Don't tell me, you have a review unit and not saying anything to anybody?

 

[solderdude]

NDA

 

[starfly]

NDA

What's the price range for that NDA unit?

 

[solderdude]

thread title

 

[Vini darko]

X3's possibly

 

[starfly]

thread title

On a separate note, I read the review of the DT1990 on your site. How is the soundstage and imaging on those?

Also saw your measurement with the Dekoni Elite Velour. That measurement is very different from Dekoni's own measurement: https://dekoniaudio.com/beyerdynamic-dt1990-measurements/

Any idea why the two measurements are so different?

Also any thoughts on how the DT1990 might sound with that acoustic fleece Beyer has started using?

 

[solderdude]

Any idea why the two measurements are so different?

Measurement method. The treble peak appears gone but is still there, not as prominent as with the Beyerpads.
The Dekoni is only interesting when you need more room for the ears, want tonality between A and B pads or want more comfort.

I don't hear soundstage so can't comment. Imaging is decent, slightly easier to pinpoint sound than HD6xx range.

Also any thoughts on how the DT1990 might sound with that acoustic fleece Beyer has started using?

Probably very similar to when using toilet paper. A disadvantage could be that it also lowers freq above 12kHz which may not be what one really needs.

 

[starfly]

Measurement method. The treble peak appears gone but is still there, not as prominent as with the Beyerpads.
The Dekoni is only interesting when you need more room for the ears, want tonality between A and B pads or want more comfort.

I don't hear soundstage so can't comment. Imaging is decent, slightly easier to pinpoint sound than HD6xx range.



Probably very similar to when using toilet paper. A disadvantage could be that it also lowers freq above 12kHz which may not be what one really needs.

Thanks. I probably would need more room for my ears if I went for the DT1990 (if I could find one used that is), so I'd probably get those Dekoni pads.

How does the imaging of the DT1990 compare to the Fidelio X2HR?

 

[solderdude]

Not far apart. Here and there I read the X2HR has poor imaging. I don't hear it that way. Most likely has to do with HRTF.

 

[Bob-23]

How does the imaging of the DT1990 compare to the Fidelio X2HR?

Rtings' rating of imaging is in both of them about the same, namely high - rating of sound stage, also high, is the same in both of them. I find them, definitely, better than HD600 in that regard.

Deep bass quality and amount (eq'd) is also, clearly, much better than the HD600's (eq'd). To me, they are very good allrounders (Oratory 1990 EQ applied, without eq highs are a bit muddy).
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/beyerdynamic/dt-1990-pro
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr

Like the sound quality and imaging and soundstage, but just don't find them that comfortable

I've got big ears, too - it's always rather difficult for us to find adequate headphones - Fidelio X2Rs earpads are, relatively, big - and having reduced the clamping force by bending the headband, it works for me. The memory foam in them gets softer when warmed up.

There are, btw, aftermarket earpads for the X2R, apparently also wider ones, and somewhere I read, somebody succeded in putting the (soft and comfortable) pads of the K702 on them. What it does with the sound, I don't know, the one with K702 pads seemed to have been satisfied...

And yes, (very good!) build quality has its weight...

 

[3125b]

The X3 is listed for 350$, so probably not that. And unfortunately, it doesn't look as good anymore. They adapted sort of an Ikea design language I think.

 

[maverickronin]

How is the soundstage and imaging on the Hd6xx?

So-so. An AKG K7-something or Beyer 880/990 would be better if soundstage is a priority.

 

[Vini darko]

The X3 is listed for 350$, so probably not that. And unfortunately, it doesn't look as good anymore. They adapted sort of an Ikea design language I think.

Yeah looking overpriced and that fabric covering won't last. Haven't seen any much positive said about it yet.

 

[3125b]

fabric covering won't last

It certainly won't age well, for something worn on the body a non replacable, non washable fabric anything is not a good fit whatsoever.
I don't know what it's gonna sound like, but the design is a definite step back.
And it doesn't appear like they sell replacement ear pads for the X3 either, wich frankly is ridiculous for such an expensive headphone.

If the X2 ever goes on sale for around 115€ again, I might pick one up, just to give it another try. I'm not usually a fan of dark-ish bass heavy headphones, but I would like to see what it can do with EQ. The distortion is somewhat elevated in the bass, but that shouldn't be much of an issue, I own a pair of HE-35X, and they have high distortion also, isn't really audible.

Ikea design:

 

[Vini darko]

Its much easier to fix elevated bass than missing bass with physical mods imo.

 

[solderdude]

You can easily lower the bass on the X2HR. It is tighter too. Addressing the issue (underdamping) often works better than just EQ IMO.
The treble needs to be fixed but this too is possible.

 

[f1shb0n3]

Hey, as a fellow Motu owner (though I have the M4) do you know if there is a way to route output to both the monitor out and line out?

I don't think it's possible without additional software in both Windows and MacOS. In MacOS even switching to output to 3-4 is something like 8 mouse clicks in Audio MIDI settings, very inconvenient. Switching to output 3-4 in Windows is easy though, should not be a major hassle.

Otherwise, how is the soundstage and imaging on the Hd58x and HE400i?

I believe imaging (ability to pinpoint the direction of sounds) is most important for gaming and both HD58x and HE400i are great at that.
I'm not certain how to evaluate soundstage, but feel that on HE400i is a bit wider than HD58x. Worth noting is that HE400i has a very boosted treble, so much that I find it unpleasing to listen to without EQ, but this might be beneficial for competitive gaming if you want to hear footsteps better for example. I should also note that HE400i (and other HifiMans in general) have some issues with build quality - mine developed a rattle with bass on the left driver for example.

Overall I would recommend HD58x as a great headphone for the price. After I got mine I could no longer tolerate any of the other (cheaper) headphones I have and even the Sony WH-1000XM3 which was my daily favorite before became unbearable to listen to. It also incited a passion for quality sound that brought me to this forum and started my "audiophile" quest of learning about audio and upgrading my other gear.

 

[RighteousNuts]

Overall, I'd recommend HD58x, 6xx or He-4xx.

I think for music HE-4xx is probably my favorite, but it's the least effective for gaming and imaging. The HD58x is probably the best for gaming but the bass roll off is pretty significant (So I'm less of a fan). If you're willing to take a chance on a semi open, I'd recommend the DT1990's or a used set of Mad Dogs (if you can find them). You'll end up paying a bit more for the DT 1990's (Used at like 400ish) and around 300-400 for used Mad Dogs, but I think the experience is vastly superior. The difference in quality between 200$ USD headphones and 500ish range is pretty decent upgrade wise.

(You can even find used mk3 modhouse argons in the slightly 400 range if you're lucky, which I'd recommend about the same as Mad Dogs)