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good in-ear please ?

NTomokawa

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#21
Unfortunately, buying IEMs is a massive crapshoot since you seldom get to audition them before making a decision.

I have only ever seen one store where customers may audition IEMs. To do that, one must purchase a set of eartips and a cleaning swab for hygiene reasons in that store.

In addition, subjective descriptions are next to useless since everybody prefers a different sound signature. That is without taking into account any source interactions and imperfections.

Frequency response curves are useful to a degree, but there are other factors other than a simple FR sweep, such as waterfall charts, impulse response
graphs, impedance and phase graphs...

And interpreting those charts and graphs are far less straightforward than looking at an FR sweep.

I know this doesn't help, but I think you need to understand that you might have to try several sets of IEMs before settling on a good set.
 

JohnYang1997

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#23
Measuring earphone and headphones needs a lot of understanding of sound, acoustic, electronic(for equivalent modeling and measurement methods). And it takes just as much to interpret and be able to point out the issues and maybe rerun the tests. Also knowing the limitations of measurement equipments and methods. Using alternative tests to complement the methods used is also beneficial.
Some people (won't name them) in the community just don't know how things work and don't have the knowledge and intelligence to do the work correctly.
 

JJB70

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#24
I've never been the biggest fan of in-ear IEMs but have softened to them recently and have just bought the Etymotic ER4SR. I wanted good noise isolating IEMs which would replace noise cancelling headphones and also sound good. I can see why the Etymotic ER4SR isn't for everybody as compared to most bass boosted headphones these days it initially sounds a bit light, and it the flatter response initially sounds a bit thin and dry but if you adjust to their sound signature they are very detailed and accurate. And noise isolation is superb.
 

Soniclife

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#25
I can see why the Etymotic ER4SR isn't for everybody as compared to most bass boosted headphones these days it initially sounds a bit light, and it the flatter response initially sounds a bit thin and dry but if you adjust to their sound signature they are very detailed and accurate.
This is the thing that confuses me most about headphones, do people hear things the same, or do we have different preferences? I've not heard the 4SR but I strongly expect to agree with Tyll.
For me, the bass level on the ER4SR simply isn't enough. Frankly, even the ER4XR doesn't have enough bass for me, but it's much better.
Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...ic-er4sr-and-er4xr-page-2#jq4MmaehYVk6djGU.99
But then when you look for info on the compsation curves you see.
The MOA tests have told us that the exact amount of preferred bass/treble will vary depending on age, listening experience, gender, and program material. Younger listeners and less experienced listeners generally preferred slightly more bass and treble than older, more experienced listeners. For senior listeners (55+ years old) we found they preferred on average even less bass but more treble than younger listeners. We believe this is related to hearing loss. This is an educated guess because we didn’t measure the hearing of the subjects (except Harman trained ones) and we need to test a larger sample.
Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...headphone-target-response#g0vQQfxuJW3KhK6r.99
Which leaves me wondering if anyone else's subjective opinion about headphones has any relevance at all.
 

JJB70

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#26
This is the thing that confuses me most about headphones, do people hear things the same, or do we have different preferences? I've not heard the 4SR but I strongly expect to agree with Tyll.

But then when you look for info on the compsation curves you see.

Which leaves me wondering if anyone else's subjective opinion about headphones has any relevance at all.
I tend to think that any subjective opinion is only useful if you have a good idea of the tastes and preferences of the person offering it. Audio is no different to food, drinks, music etc, we all have opinions and unless we share some tastes and preferences then sharing opinions is rather problematic. For example if you asked me for a restaurant recommendation then it might be very helpful to listen to my recommendations if you like East and South East Asian food (Korean, Japanese, Indonesian, Thai, Malay etc), if you don't like these foods then I would recommend ignoring my opinions on food. For IEMs the fit is such a personal thing. I wore deep insertion ear plugs for many years so am comfortable wearing Etymotics but I certainly understand why some will hate the fit. These days I think many recordings are emphasise bass as well as being compressed and so much audio equipment stresses bass that I suspect that what is considered to be a balanced sound is much bassier than it would have been 20 or 30 years ago. I also think it is sensitive to music genre. I mainly listen to symphonic and opera music and the tonal balance of the ER4SR is superb for that music. I suspect that I would want something much punchier if I was a rock, dance or metal fan. I still like my Sony MDR Z7s which are almost like a "Beats lite" sound for people who like a bass kick but not to take it over the top for those rock recordings I like.
 
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#27
ZS10 Pro is one I have on order, getting it soon .. apparently quite a good in ear for the price. I also have BGVP DM6, which are great, but on another budget level .. apparently the successor DM7 is even better.
 

NTomokawa

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#28
Meanwhile I just purchased a set of Fiio FH5. Can't wait to try them out.

I've always liked hybrid IEMs.
 

tential

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#29
Tential, I have found Badguyaudio unreliable in the IEMs I'vs heard in common. He seems to like a pretty peaky, bassy sound. More of a personality than helpful reviewer.
Yup, I said I could not speak to the scientific nature of his recommendations.
I think iems are much harder to give a scientific x is better than y, where as with speakers, there are general guidelines that hold true and have scientific backing as to why.
With iems and headphones, just putting them in/on and the shape of your head and ears can drastically change your thoughts.
I could easily pick out end game speaker systems to build that I'd be happy not worrying about ever changing speakers (could always add more subs though!) but iems/headphones? I always wonder if I can get a more comfortable fit sound signature I like. More, better x y or x, and because it's in direct contact with the body it's more personal than a speaker and requires more 'blind' buying where you're not really sure the result.
I knew exactly what I was getting out of a Dayton ultimax. With any iem? No clue.
 
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#30
I guess most youtubers can be used to just get a selection of well made, solide and not obviously very bad items (excluding all QC issues etc here), which I already find valuable. Wethrr the soundsignature is your type, noone knows, unless you know exactly what the reviewer in question tends to like.
 
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#31
Have you tried the DT 500 DT600? in comparison with KZ ZS10 ... 10 PRO?
I'm thinking about ZS10 pro. I want a good bass. I like the deep sound.
 

Fregly

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#32
I am liking the ER3SE so far having just got it. Seems smooth and even handed. I will likely try the new ER2SE as well. The bass on the ER3 is nicely focused and in balance to my ears, and there's more of it than I was expecting after reading the general consensus.
 

LTig

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#33
These days I think many recordings are emphasise bass as well as being compressed and so much audio equipment stresses bass that I suspect that what is considered to be a balanced sound is much bassier than it would have been 20 or 30 years ago. I also think it is sensitive to music genre. I mainly listen to symphonic and opera music and the tonal balance of the ER4SR is superb for that music. I suspect that I would want something much punchier if I was a rock, dance or metal fan. I still like my Sony MDR Z7s which are almost like a "Beats lite" sound for people who like a bass kick but not to take it over the top for those rock recordings I like.
Well, if the recordings already emphasis bass a lot why on earth should a speaker/headphone/inear emphasis bass even more?
 

Frank Dernie

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#34
This is the thing that confuses me most about headphones, do people hear things the same, or do we have different preferences? I've not heard the 4SR but I strongly expect to agree with Tyll.

But then when you look for info on the compsation curves you see.

Which leaves me wondering if anyone else's subjective opinion about headphones has any relevance at all.
I like my ER4S, which are no longer made, I have been using them for best part of 30 years, though these are my second pair after leaving the first on an aeroplane in 2000. A few years ago I went to Oxford Audio Consultants and auditioned a range of headphones on my own player. I made a point of not reading internet reviews first, or asking prices. The ones I chose as having the most accurate instrumental timbre on orchestral and piano music, my main criterion, was not the most expensive but after buying them I found they were generally criticised for lack of bass (whereas I found most had excessive bass) and were available from Amazon for about 40% less than I paid :(
 

JJB70

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#35
Headphones seem to have followed other parts of audio with a proliferation of high end statement headphones. The price of some IEMs seems excessive to me, it'd be OK if the performance was commensurate with the price but my limited experience suggests that is not the case. The Etymotics aren't cheap, but they are a nicely made, superb sounding product in my opinion.
 

rebbiputzmaker

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#36
Depends on how much you want to spend. I have used plenty of KZ's over the years.

In terms of isolation fit, I would rank the ZS4, AS10 (CCA C16 uses more or less the same case as the AS10) as being the best at isolation for my ears. (Skip the ZS3 and go the ZS4 instead, its a better IEM in the same case actually)

In terms of sound stage, or overall spaciousness of sound without getting fatiguing, I would say the ZS10. The newest ZS10 PRO is supposedly better than the original. But I don't have that.

For absolute sound quality, I would rate the CCA C16, followed by AS10 and ZS7 as being on par, as they have different sound signatures. From people I trust on the HF forums, the ZS10 Pro are solid too.

As to benefit from the Atom + Khadas which I also have and use, the CCA C16 or the ZS4. The AS10 and ZS7 are both really easy to drive and the AS10 is actually a bit too sensitive for use with the ATOM. Your volume knob will probably be stuck at 8 O'clock.
Good choices. IMO the zs7 is about the best tuned KZ I have heard. Balanced sound with great information retrieval.
 
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