Good HiFi from China and Taiwan?

[Drengur]

I imported Xindak, Jungson and CAV and did most of the retailing myself. Even though I was operating in a very, very, very small market, there were no reliability issues, neither as a percentage or in number of units. Keep in mind that being in the EU/EEA I had to offer a two year warranty, so it would have hurt if there had been reliability issues. The only product that had consistent issues were the Jungson remotes. That was because they were partly made of wood. Looked and operated very well, but being manufactured in high humidity location and shipped to a very low humidity location on the other side of the planet made them shrink so the buttons could not be pressed. It took about 5 minutes with sandpaper to fix. I also sold some TVs from Samsung, Panasonic and others. Those Samsung TVs would have bankrupted me if I had not stopped bothering. Those things barely lasted the two years of warranty, and the markup was horrible (for a small vendor).

 

[Katji]

Dont forget TONEWINNER. They make most of the amps for other decent to high end brands (i was told Emotiva and a host of others). their own ToneWinner brand has some high end very well built great sounding kit.

You forgot. #32

 

[Katji]

My problem with china things is the same problem that i have 10 years ago.


Things from china just have very short life.

Ridiculous generalisation.

e.g. I have a kettle which has been used a lot for more than 4 years. [Is that a short time?] 2 others did not last much more than 1 year.

Come on china.

Which of 1.4 billion people you talking to [?]

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Ridiculous generalisation.



Which of 1.4 billion people you talking to [?]

To the president, sure
Please mr president of china..

 

[DanielT]

However, the poll was not [scientifically] controlled. The survey sample/s is not broad, not random. etc. It is limited to persons registered at ASR, persons who read ASR, that means, let's say, >90% who read English language. [If 90% seems to be too low, well, believe me, I have done many hours reading VK by using Google translate Russian/English.]

That does not mean the poll is worthless, no, just that "it is what it is." But then various biases are applied, interpretations based in bias.

My problem with china things is the same problem that i have 10 years ago.


Things from china just have very short life. Even my dx200 required 2 repairs and then i sold them.. 1/2 year later the owner said he must sold the dap very cheap because now he had a battery problem.. Come on china.


Even topping is a shame on this.

S

I imported Xindak, Jungson and CAV and did most of the retailing myself. Even though I was operating in a very, very, very small market, there were no reliability issues, neither as a percentage or in number of units. Keep in mind that being in the EU/EEA I had to offer a two year warranty, so it would have hurt if there had been reliability issues. The only product that had consistent issues were the Jungson remotes. That was because they were partly made of wood. Looked and operated very well, but being manufactured in high humidity location and shipped to a very low humidity location on the other side of the planet made them shrink so the buttons could not be pressed. It took about 5 minutes with sandpaper to fix. I also sold some TVs from Samsung, Panasonic and others. Those Samsung TVs would have bankrupted me if I had not stopped bothering. Those things barely lasted the two years of warranty, and the markup was horrible (for a small vendor).

Ridiculous generalisation.

e.g. I have a kettle which has been used a lot for more than 4 years. [Is that a short time?] 2 others did not last much more than 1 year.


Which of 1.4 billion people you talking to [?]

Statistics would be undeniably interesting to see. Objective data.

But why only demand or want it from HiFi from China?
How does it look with longevity, reliability and durability with HiFi, other brands, products, from other countries? Any stats on that?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

S


Statistics would be undeniably interesting to see. Objective data.

But why only demand or want it from China?
How does it look with longevity, reliability and durability with HiFi, other brands, products, from other countries? Any stats on that?

Because cheap and nice objetive performance.. And also.. cheap are from china
The only thing china lacks is longevity..the topping d90se es really nice but it got 4/10 lf failure units.. Thats a lot for the context.

 

[DanielT]

Because cheap and nice objetive performance.. And also.. cheap are from china
The only thing china lacks is longevity..the topping d90se es really nice but it got 4/10 lf failure units.. Thats a lot for the context.

Okay, but just to put it into perspective. A thread about a gadget where the title is:

Is your Topping PA5 amp defective?

Of course, those who had, or have problems, will write there, in that thread so if 30% state errors in that thread, what does that say? How can it be interpreted? Having said that. For Topping PA5, ...hm, it doesn't really look like it's quite right, ..but we can take comments about PA5 specifically in the PA5 thread.

Or if you, even though the Internet didn't exist then, would read about a few hundred people who had problems with new their amp after six months, a year after they bought it. If the amplifier was:

The NAD 3020 is a stereo integrated amplifier by NAD Electronics, considered to be one of the most important components in the history of high fidelity audio.[1] Launched in 1978, this highly affordable product delivered a good quality sound, which acquired a reputation as an audiophile amplifier of exceptional value. By 1998, the NAD 3020 had become the most well known and best-selling audio amplifier in history.[2]

The NAD 3020 sold half a million units in the first three years of its life,...

NAD 3020 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thus, of course, you have had your sad experiences with modern Chinese HiFi. I do not deny that.

Edit:
With that said from my side. Cheap HiFi, really cheap HiFi that seems to measure/sound well. Instinctively anyway I get the feeling, observe a feeling, nothing I can back up, that it is too good to be true. True in the sense that the stuff has a reasonable lifespan and doesn't cause problems or, in the worst case, break.

 

[Zenek73]

It would be great to buy sth from such modern country like Taiwan but...
Currently I have Musical Fidelity v90 made in EU! so for me it sounds better than any dac made in China I know. Snake oil but it works for me.
But dac from Taiwan? Why not. I will add it to my wish list.

 

[AmalfiMan]

German engineering will always be superior. China won’t be around much longer so I wouldn’t invest in them yet.

 

[Jimbob54]

China won’t be around much longer so I wouldn’t invest in them yet.

3000 years of recorded history suggest otherwise.

 

[ZolaIII]

3000 years of recorded history suggest otherwise.

Make that 7000 years compared to 2500 years of Western civilisation (which by the way has it's roots in Asia).
You will hardly find audio or other electronics (with exception of microchips of course) that are still made recently in Taiwan, because of the cost benefit production is moved to China. We seen same shifts in the past.
Someone earlier said you won't find a development efforts elsewhere in past which is absolutely not true as a matter of fact you will find it in Japan much earlier than in West like Onkyo institute along with plethora of proven brands that we still like (for example; Denon, Yamaha...).
Regarding (made, engineered and manufactured [OEM]) in China no one remembered to mention TempoTec who have my hat down regarding supporting their products regarding infrastructure and drivers.

 

[Koeitje]

Okay, but just to put it into perspective. A thread about a gadget where the title is:

Is your Topping PA5 amp defective?

Of course, those who had, or have problems, will write there, in that thread so if 30% state errors in that thread, what does that say? How can it be interpreted? Having said that. For Topping PA5, ...hm, it doesn't really look like it's quite right, ..but we can take comments about PA5 specifically in the PA5 thread.

Or if you, even though the Internet didn't exist then, would read about a few hundred people who had problems with new their amp after six months, a year after they bought it. If the amplifier was:

The NAD 3020 is a stereo integrated amplifier by NAD Electronics, considered to be one of the most important components in the history of high fidelity audio.[1] Launched in 1978, this highly affordable product delivered a good quality sound, which acquired a reputation as an audiophile amplifier of exceptional value. By 1998, the NAD 3020 had become the most well known and best-selling audio amplifier in history.[2]

The NAD 3020 sold half a million units in the first three years of its life,...

NAD 3020 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thus, of course, you have had your sad experiences with modern Chinese HiFi. I do not deny that.

Edit:
With that said from my side. Cheap HiFi, really cheap HiFi that seems to measure/sound well. Instinctively anyway I get the feeling, observe a feeling, nothing I can back up, that it is too good to be true. True in the sense that the stuff has a reasonable lifespan and doesn't cause problems or, in the worst case, break.

I worked at an electronics store a while back and the amount of NAD and Harman Kardon amplifiers and receivers that broke was staggering. We also sold Marantz, and you hardly ever saw those. So I guess the lesson here is to also avoid American and UK based brands? /s

 

[DanielT]

I worked at an electronics store a while back and the amount of NAD and Harman Kardon amplifiers and receivers that broke was staggering. We also sold Marantz, and you hardly ever saw those. So I guess the lesson here is to also avoid American and UK based brands? /s

Exactly, you have to look at the whole picture. Plus, as far as possible, study with facts and statistics.

Having said that. We don't know how many of today's class D amps will work in 20-30 years. That way many class AB amps that are now so old still work.

Don't know if this applies specifically to class D amps. Not even just HiFi. I just have the feeling that things were built to last longer back in the day. Cars for example. But then they didn't have advanced electronics/computers that could mess up. But on the other hand, they had poor rust protection, plus safety was poor compared to today's cars. When I think about it, modern cars win on all counts basically. Maybe not always when it comes to looks. Like vintage amps /receivers vs new ditto.

 

[Koeitje]

Exactly, you have to look at the whole picture. Plus, as far as possible, study with facts and statistics.

Having said that. We don't know how many of today's class D amps will work in 20-30 years. That way many class AB amps that are now so old still work.

Don't know if this applies specifically to class D amps. Not even just HiFi. I just have the feeling that things were built to last longer back in the day. Cars for example. But then they didn't have advanced electronics/computers that could mess up. But on the other hand, they had poor rust protection, plus safety was poor compared to today's cars. When I think about it, modern cars win on all counts basically. Maybe not always when it comes to looks. Like vintage amps /receivers vs new ditto.

Yeah, I'm not going to shit on Marantz because my own Marantz Premium Series model had several issues. Its a numbers game and everything can break.

But cars have gotten a lot better and most cars will do 300k+ km and still look great after all that. The problem is that they are harder to fix at home. On the other hand car maintenance costs have dropped.

 

[新しい人]

I'm Chinese, so maybe I can say a few words. My English is not good, so I use deepl translation. There are some great hifi companies in China, like topping, moondrop, but these companies are often looked down upon by audiophiles. Chinese audiophiles should be like audiophiles in other countries, they prefer to believe in magic rather than measuring data, they always say "data looks good but doesn't sound good", then spend a lot of money on fancy cables or other "snake oil", they also invented They also invented a disparaging term "scientific hifi party" to call those who value measurement data. In Chinese audiophile circles, Genelec is known as the "liar speaker" because the components used by Genelec are not so "audiophile".

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[DanielT]

But cars have gotten a lot better and most cars will do 300k+ km and still look great after all that. The problem is that they are harder to fix at home. On the other hand car maintenance costs have dropped.

That might be true, but:

"In September 2013, a red 1966 Volvo P1800 reached the 3-million-mile mark."

Here’s A Close Look At Gordon's Volvo P1800 With Three Million Miles

Guinness recognizes Irv Gordon as the owner of a Volvo P1800, the most driven car in the world. Gordon may have departed, but his legendary car lives on.

www.motor1.com

In and of itself a unique example. Cool car in any case.

 

[ZolaIII]

That might be true, but:

"In September 2013, a red 1966 Volvo P1800 reached the 3-million-mile mark."

Here’s A Close Look At Gordon's Volvo P1800 With Three Million Miles

Guinness recognizes Irv Gordon as the owner of a Volvo P1800, the most driven car in the world. Gordon may have departed, but his legendary car lives on.

www.motor1.com

In and of itself a unique example. Cool car in any case.

Most driven and mass produced personal transportation device is:

Flying Pigeon - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It doesn't need gas and keaps you healthy and of course maintenance is cheap and you can do it your self.

 

[Koeitje]

That might be true, but:

"In September 2013, a red 1966 Volvo P1800 reached the 3-million-mile mark."

Here’s A Close Look At Gordon's Volvo P1800 With Three Million Miles

Guinness recognizes Irv Gordon as the owner of a Volvo P1800, the most driven car in the world. Gordon may have departed, but his legendary car lives on.

www.motor1.com

In and of itself a unique example. Cool car in any case.

Pretty hard for a 2022 car to do that kind of mileage by now

But car lifespan is probably a normal distribution, and I bet they look quite different if you compare a car from 1966 to one from 2016.

 

[Sokel]

I have a mono tube Phillips amp,made 1963 for use in moving cinemas (the ones that was like the circuses,going to remote places and playing for the people).
You can imagine how much trouble this amp had back in it's days.
It still plays,my nephew restored it and uses it as an instrument amp.I don't think that will ever break,apart from the tubes.
But it's not about country origin,it's about that time philosophy of production that made things last long.

 

[DanielT]

Most driven and mass produced personal transportation device is:

Flying Pigeon - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It doesn't need gas and keaps you healthy and of course maintenance is cheap and you can do it your self.

Pretty much OT for the thread, I admit, but you have to have something to travel on:

"The Arkadiko Bridge or Kazarma Bridge is a Mycenaean bridge near the modern road from Tiryns to Epidauros on the Peloponnese, Greece. Dating to the Greek Bronze Age, it is one of the oldest arch bridges still in existence and in use today and the oldest preserved bridge in Europe."

Arkadiko Bridge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit:

There you :



have an open goal to give a reply to.
The thread is about China so go ahead.Be proud of your country and its history.