Goldensound and his golden ears...

[amirm]

But for some how want to see "what makes the device tick." at home its interesting to have the data.

A lot of things would be interesting to have. But it is only me testing and shipping 300 plus products. I don't have the liberty to keep adding to the workload for the few that might want this or that.

 

[Doodski]

A lot of things would be interesting to have. But it is only me testing and shipping 300 plus products. I don't have the liberty to keep adding to the workload for the few that might want this or that.

Keep it consistent is the best plan in my opinion. The same graphs and same measurements for all the gear.

 

[Lambda]

Keep it consistent is the best plan in my opinion. The same graphs and same measurements for all the gear.

i’m not asking to let anything out or add anything more to the review site.

I’m asking for the download option of an file that's automatically generated after you run a automated test.
This would add transparency, reproducibility and would ensure there is nothing "strange" going on or errors made in the manual process.
While also it would make it more Comparable since other reviews and company's publish this data.

I don’t see how this would add significantly to the work load.

 

[Doodski]

i’m not asking to let anything out or add anything more to the review site.

I’m asking for the download option of an file that's automatically generated after you run a automated test.
This would add transparency, reproducibility and would ensure there is nothing "strange" going on or errors made in the manual process.
While also it would make it more Comparable since other reviews and company's publish this data.

I don’t see how this would add significantly to the work load.

Ahhh. You want confirmation and proof. That takes the fun out of this. Too legalize if I think so.

 

[Killingbeans]

I don’t see how this would add significantly to the work load.

He has to draw the line somewhere. Most things aren't significant until you add them up.

 

[Doodski]

He has to draw the line somewhere. Most things aren't significant until you add them up.

I agree. Performing the operations of the tests and then delving into excessive measures is frustrating and irritating if not awkward.

 

[Lambda]

Since it's automated you can view this as one test and this one test seems to be "the Industry standard".
Just seems strange to me not to run the same test program "everyone" else is running.
Especially if this would collect more data then alle the time and work intensive manual tests together.

Having all the "Raw" unedited data from a standardized automated test makes it truly Unbiased. Objective and scientific.

 

[amirm]

Since it's automated you can view this as one test and this one test seems to be "the Industry standard".

I just got done saying I don't use AP's automation interface and you go and say I am? Once more, my tests are in interactive mode of AP. To automate it, I have to port them over to the automation side, verify everything is the same. Then run the sequence. Save the output and update to this forum and pay for it to be hosted from now 'till eternity. You haven't justified the reason I should do all of this.

 

[amirm]

Having all the "Raw" unedited data from a standardized automated test makes it truly Unbiased. Objective and scientific.

Why on earth do you keep bringing up this accusation? What is not objective or scientific about what I do now? In every case you are seeing the Audio Precision output that I cut and paste and add text to. I am religious in doing so. None of the measurements are made up by me in some other program. I do the same with speaker measurements going to some pain to make sure the logo of Klippel/AP are on all the measurements to give that assurance. Here is a quick example:

You see the "AP)" logo on top right?

Now, if you are calling my ethics into question, go ahead and demonstrate what you are talking about specifically. Otherwise, your comments are insulting and improper after I calmly addressed them.

 

[amirm]

Just seems strange to me not to run the same test program "everyone" else is running.

No one is doing this other than one new person who got an AP and thought to use the script mode to spit out the graphs. Show me any other reviewer which gives you this type of export. Or even the data I exports I provide for both headphones and speakers. And do it with frequency of reviews and tests I produce.

Nothing like writing checks that you then ask me to cash.....

 

[JSmith]

(Some other reviewers with AP don't... i wonder why?)

Can you clarify what you are trying to say on this point? There is no point making a veiled accusation without foundation... so just say what you actually mean rather than beating around the bush IMO.



JSmith

 

[Doodski]

Most things aren't significant until you add them up.

Like me and dark chocolate bars with almonds....

 

[jae]

I don't believe so, in the video where he announces that he got the APx555, he explains how he feels about objective vs subjective. It appears he sincerely feels that the 'truth is in the middle' and that 'good measurements don't necessarily equal good sound'. So it doesn't seem to be a shtick only to appease the subjective crowd. Relevant part of the video below:

This fence-sitting, "somewhere in the middle" business I have found is often times its own type of bias, or at the very least blatant intellectual laziness or dishonesty.

 

[litemotiv]

This fence-sitting, "somewhere in the middle" business I have found is often times its own type of bias, or at the very least blatant intellectual laziness or dishonesty.

That's certainly possible, i cannot judge that from my position. Goldensound appears sincere to me in his 'dualistic' approach, so i personally don't feel comfortable saying it's a deliberate or political decision like others have suggested.

 

[JSmith]

appears sincere

Until you're on the wrong "side"... then he'll try to ruin your reputation, question your knowledge and experience, make unfounded accusations about your business, publish old emails from your previous employer on other forums and then make out people are trying to doxx him, whilst he "apologises" for doing so.



JSmith

 

[Raindog123]

then he'll try to [do this and that]

I am not sure the future tense is appropriate here. Yes, @GoldenOne has made significant "personal attack" mistakes. But, seeing again and again what drives him and giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's hope it was a manifestation of ”immaturity" and "categorical youth". And let's hope that @GoldenOne has learned from his mistakes - mainly of not mixing [his] "theories" [no matter how plausible they are]" and "facts" [however limited those might be].

Just my personal stance on the matter.

 

[jae]

That's certainly possible, i cannot judge that from my position. Goldensound appears sincere to me in his 'dualistic' approach, so i personally don't feel comfortable saying it's a deliberate or political decision like others have suggested.

I was not trying to imply that he was being dishonest with others for his own benefit (channel views, audience etc), but moreso trying to articulate that a consequence of this dualistic thinking probably involves some sort of intellectual dishonestly or unsureness with himself and his own opinions. One can be perfectly sincere but also be vulnerable to delusions, and the reach can be far if there is an ego involved.

I am in the market for new audio equipment in the near future and I saw a few measurements on his site and appreciated them greatly because they have not been measured elsewhere before. Any objective information helps me to narrow my decisions. But my interest and appreciation does not go further than screenshots of the measurements and perhaps some photos of the equipment and its internals. I don't spend much time reading the actual reviews unless something is not clear from measurements or they seem peculiar/off. I barely even bother to read the text in Amir's reviews if a quick look at the dashboard/figures don't show me something particularly impressive.

 

[Lambda]

Once more, my tests are in interactive mode of AP. To automate it, I have to port them over to the automation side, verify everything is the same. Then run the sequence. Save the output and update to this forum and pay for it to be hosted from now 'till eternity. You haven't justified the reason I should do all of this.

And my point was its interesting to see how the DACs Perform in a standardized automated test without "tweaking"

The hoisting thing is a strange Argument for 2-3Mb file. Put it in a Gdrive/drop box if this is to mush.
compere this to the data hosted in this thread for example

A Call For Humor!

wow that's some significant span from early changers to modern hifi. regards I guess. One just has to live long enough and to continue being interested.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Why on earth do you keep bringing up this accusation?

This is not meant as an accusation.

What is not objective or scientific about what I do now? In every case you are seeing the Audio Precision output that I cut and paste and add text to. I am religious in doing so. None of the measurements are made up by me in some other program.

I’m not saying your measurement are not real measurements!
They are Awesome we all love you for this and highly Appreciate them.

But a lot of extra information about how and what't data was actually captured is missing
Like THD+N @1KHZ?
From 20-20Khz?

Sure you do your best to keep it consistent and it would be a lot of work to add all this information manually.
This is why i say Automated tests with all this information included is more "scientific" because it contains more information about how and what data was actually captured.

Now, if you are calling my ethics into question,

I don’t
I’m sure you have best intentions!

But are you free from estimation and conformation bias?

go ahead and demonstrate what you are talking about specifically.

I run one test and look at the results. Let's say I run the dashboard and see SINAD is 90 dB whereas the company advertises 100 dB. I stop there and work to find the cause. I change bandwidth, filtering, grounding, etc. If I can improve the results using those changes, then I gain insight into what the problem is. Or if it is not, then I report as such. The process then repeats for the next test.

Is for example a 70€ Behringer DAC getting the same attention to detail benefit of the doubt as a 1000€ topping?
In this special lowering the output volume at the analog volume Potentiometer would have Dramatically improved SINAD?

 

[JSmith]

Just my personal stance on the matter.

Fair call and I don't completely disagree... I suppose I just get frustrated with the short term memory displayed on occasion and due to said past events I tend to still be a little cautious on motives.



JSmith

 

[SIY]

As I've said before- the metric of honesty is willingness to share project files. The project files generated from the AP in Bench mode have ALL the settings and the acquired data. No hiding from that. When people dispute my results, unlike looking at a rather Procrustean and opaque pdf of a Sequence, they can examine exactly what I did and what I got. When I have asked @amirm for project files. he has supplied them. I have some definite disagreements with him about some of his test methods, but have always been able to examine AND duplicate his results.