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Going down in sensitivity

Robert-Hifi

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My current loudspeakers are rated at 92dB sensitivity, but what are the sonical drawbacks going down in sensitivity with the MoFi SourcePoint 888 rated at 87dB (Erin measured them at 85.6dB between 300Hz-3kHz).

I know it takes more power to reach the same output level, but how does it affect the sound?
I read some find them not engaging at low volume or the bass is not very impactful at low volume.

Is that true for all loudspeakers with average sensitivity around 86dB?
Can Audyssey Dynamic EQ maybe compensate for such thing?
Are there others who went down 4-6dB in sensitivity with new loudspeakers and what were your findings?
 
I think* that all of your questions are going to depend more on the specific loudspeaker(s) than the sensitivity "numbers" per se . Impedance and phase curve(s) and the dispersion as a function of frequency in your listening environment are going to be the more important parameters.

Strictly FWIW, I am personally a proponent of high-sensitivity loudspeakers. Let them do the heavy lifting! This is a minority -- nay, heretical ;) -- opinion nowadays.

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* no more and no less! ;)
 
I know it takes more power to reach the same output level, but how does it affect the sound?
Asides from needing more power to get the same SPL, it doesn't. But of course if you're changing speakers, the sensitivity will not be the only thing that changes.
I read some find them not engaging at low volume or the bass is not very impactful at low volume.
This isn't something that should have much of anything to do with sensitivity on its own, by my understanding. At low volumes, you'll be using little power regardless of the sensitivity.
Can Audyssey Dynamic EQ maybe compensate for such thing?
Dynamic EQ doesn't have anything to do with sensitivity, again. It's for compensating for our ear's loudness curves where bass and treble tend to get recessed relative to the midrange when turning the volume down.

What amplifier are you using, and what are your current speakers? Some manufacturers are a little, shall we say, optimistic with their sensitivity ratings so there may not be as big a gap as you think.

The only real difference due to sensitivity should be this:

1736788690159.png
1736788725998.png


To get that 6dB back, you'd need four times as much amplifier power:

1736788785472.png


The above is why I agree with @mhardy6647 that sensitivity is underrated and prefer speakers with at least 90dB sensitivity myself. Even with the ample power available nowadays for relatively little money, dynamic peaks can need a lot of power from your amp to avoid clipping.

You're only going to be looking these high SPL levels for dynamic peaks, of course. You'll just have to turn the volume knob up a little to achieve the same overall SPL, which even for (movie) reference level is only 85dB and that's considered extremely loud by most people. The specifics of all this are going to depend on your room, speaker positioning, distance from the speakers to the listening position, preferred volume, the speaker's impedance curve, and other factors. And of course, again, when changing speakers there's going to be more than just the difference in sensitivity to contend with.
 
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3dB is a power factor of 2 and 6dB is a power factor of 4. My hand-dandy spreadsheet says 5dB is a power factor of 3.16.

If you want to get a feel for a 5dB change (without compensating with more power) open a file in Audacity and run the Amplify effect at -5dB.

I know it takes more power to reach the same output level, but how does it affect the sound?
I read some find them not engaging at low volume or the bass is not very impactful at low volume.
Speakers (and amplifiers, etc.) are linear so the sound doesn't change with volume (unless overdriven into distortion). And I assume you are changing to the lower sensitivity speakers because you like the sound.

Our perception isn't linear and when we turn down the volume it sounds like we've turned-down the bass even more (Equal Loudness Curves). But presumably you're not listening quieter just because you have less efficient speakers.
 
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I think* that all of your questions are going to depend more on the specific loudspeaker(s) than the sensitivity "numbers" per se . Impedance and phase curve(s) and the dispersion as a function of frequency in your listening environment are going to be the more important parameters.

Strictly FWIW, I am personally a proponent of high-sensitivity loudspeakers. Let them do the heavy lifting! This is a minority -- nay, heretical ;) -- opinion nowadays.

_____________
* no more and no less! ;)
It's indeed the total sum that's important, but the much lower sensitivity and the dispersion/radiation width are my concerns.
 
Asides from needing more power to get the same SPL, it doesn't. But of course if you're changing speakers, the sensitivity will not be the only thing that changes.

This isn't something that should have much of anything to do with sensitivity on its own, by my understanding. At low volumes, you'll be using little power regardless of the sensitivity.

Dynamic EQ doesn't have anything to do with sensitivity, again. It's for compensating for our ear's loudness curves where bass and treble tend to get recessed relative to the midrange when turning the volume down.

What amplifier are you using, and what are your current speakers? Some manufacturers are a little, shall we say, optimistic with their sensitivity ratings so there may not be as big a gap as you think.

The only real difference due to sensitivity should be this:

View attachment 420821View attachment 420822

To get that 6dB back, you'd need four times as much amplifier power:

View attachment 420823

The above is why I agree with @mhardy6647 that sensitivity is underrated and prefer speakers with at least 90dB sensitivity myself. Even with the ample power available nowadays for relatively little money, dynamic peaks can need a lot of power from your amp to avoid clipping.

You're only going to be looking these high SPL levels for dynamic peaks, of course. You'll just have to turn the volume knob up a little to achieve the same overall SPL, which even for (movie) reference level is only 85dB and that's considered extremely loud by most people. The specifics of all this are going to depend on your room, speaker positioning, distance from the speakers to the listening position, preferred volume, the speaker's impedance curve, and other factors. And of course, again, when changing speakers there's going to be more than just the difference in sensitivity to contend with.
But what makes a certain speaker better or worse when it comes to "not engaging/dynamic/less bass impact at low volume" or "needs a certain SPL to come alive"?
These are things you don't hear as much with high(er) sensitivity speakers.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ can't alter the characteristics of the speaker, but boosting the bass at lower volume levels can change the perception of bass impact?

My current speakers are (don't laugh) 25-year old Infinity Reference 61 Mk II's being powered by a Denon AVC-X4800H.

But German and Italian Infinity brochures are reporting 92dB sensitivity
 
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Yes, boosting bass at lower volumes will help with bass presence and impact. That is largely the purpose of implementing an equal-loudness curve, which Dynamic EQ does. As has already been mentioned, there's not really a correlation between that and sensitivity as long as boosting isn't causing your amplifier to clip. At lower volumes, that should be very unlikely.

I've personally never found sensitivity alone to provide any obvious improvement / reduction to sound quality or dynamics, provided ample power is available. You may find in some cases that speakers designed for higher-sensitivity use more robust drivers that can be driven to higher volumes, but it's certainly not a rule. Frequency response, directivity, power handling, distortion, etc, are all going to play a far greater role in what you hear - again, as long as you aren't dealing with a clipped signal. Of course, if I'm looking to equip a home theater for reference level playback, I'm probably not reaching for 82dB bookshelves as my first choice. You may also find the lower power draw of higher-sensitivity speakers to be an advantage for other reasons.
 
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Yes, boosting bass at lower volumes will help with bass presence and impact. That is largely the purpose of implementing an equal-loudness curve, which Dynamic EQ does. As has already been mentioned, there's not really a correlation between that and sensitivity as long as boosting isn't causing your amplifier to clip. At lower volumes, that should be very unlikely.

I've personally never found sensitivity alone to provide any obvious improvement / reduction to sound quality or dynamics, provided ample power is available. You may find in some cases that speakers designed for higher-sensitivity use more robust drivers that can be driven to higher volumes, but it's certainly not a rule. Frequency response, directivity, power handling, distortion, etc, are all going to play a far greater role in what you hear - again, as long as you aren't dealing with a clipped signal. Of course, if I'm looking to equip a home theater for reference level playback, I'm probably not reaching for 82dB bookshelves as my first choice. You may also find the lower power draw of higher-sensitivity speakers to be an advantage for other reasons.
I understand that Audyssey Dynamic EQ and sensitivity have no correlation, just that the same (or any other) speaker with Dynamic EQ can potentially sound better at low volumes, but that's due to how our human hearing works, not the speaker itself.

The general consensus seems to be that a high-sensitivity speaker (>90dB) is preferred, but it's not a dealbreaker for most if it's not?

But you also got Hofmann's Iron Law to deal with:

"...three parameters that cannot all be had at the same time. They are low-bass reproduction, small (enclosure) size, and high (output) sensitivity." Hofmann stated that designers could pick two of these three parameters, but in doing so, it would compromise the third parameter."

We can't have it all...
 
But you also got Hofmann's Iron Law to deal with:

"...three parameters that cannot all be had at the same time. They are low-bass reproduction, small (enclosure) size, and high (output) sensitivity." Hofmann stated that designers could pick two of these three parameters, but in doing so, it would compromise the third parameter."

We can't have it all...
Yes this is the crux of it.

in particular good deep bass can be had with smaller drivers/enclosures but they tend to be high excursion drivers and require decent grunt to drive them properly.

So the potential advantage of your lower sensitivity is maybe getting better bass for the cabinet size than you would otherwise (assuming you can drive it correctly,
 
But you also got Hofmann's Iron Law to deal with:

"...three parameters that cannot all be had at the same time. They are low-bass reproduction, small (enclosure) size, and high (output) sensitivity." Hofmann stated that designers could pick two of these three parameters, but in doing so, it would compromise the third parameter."

We can't have it all...
Beyond what Greenman said, this is also why many prefer to offload the bass duties to a separate, specialized speaker rather than expecting the mains to handle bass duty.
 
Yes this is the crux of it.

in particular good deep bass can be had with smaller drivers/enclosures but they tend to be high excursion drivers and require decent grunt to drive them properly.

So the potential advantage of your lower sensitivity is maybe getting better bass for the cabinet size than you would otherwise (assuming you can drive it correctly,
I believe the underhung woofers in the MoFi SourcePoint 888 aren't high-excursion ones, yet it manages to reach down to 30Hz in-room

And it's harmonic and multi-tone distortion is still very good at 96dB @ 1 meter, if you ask me.

MoFi-SourcePoint-888-Harmonic-Distortion-96dB-1m.png


mton-full.png
 
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Beyond what Greenman said, this is also why many prefer to offload the bass duties to a separate, specialized speaker rather than expecting the mains to handle bass duty.
Yes, for home theater a subwoofer is always a necessity.
For most music you can get can away without a subwoofer if the speakers are able to reach down to 30Hz.

Like Erin concluded:
  • good linearity
  • great in-room tonality
  • great distortion and compression
  • low frequency extension down to 30Hz in-room
  • easy to drive load
  • excellent directivity (easy to EQ if desired)
What more can you ask for? Only things I can think of would be higher sensitivity and wider dispersion.

I see the advantage in offloading bass duties to a subwoofer, preferably two subwoofers to also have stereo separation in the bass.
But it wouldn't be that much cheaper in my opinion.
 
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