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GLM4 4.2.0 a big improvement in sound quality

Tangband

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I have now tested the new GLM4 firmware and also downloaded new crossover firmware to my Genelec 8340 loudspeakers .

The sonical results are better than the last GLM version, after new calibration. If you dont have GLM4 4.2.0 or have not downloaded the new firmware for your SAM monitors , do it ! :)

The result is well worth the time spent .
This time, I didnt need any other manual correction after GLM calibration than the usual + 5 dB shelving in the bass , starting at 100 Hz . I used High shelf 2 at -5 dB to do this , lowering everything from 100-20000 Hz .
E93E75F3-4F10-45D2-B1ED-8223673A6679.jpeg
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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946B4701-F7E1-4C1D-BB78-18F1FC6AD2B8.png


For me, the sound gets more natural with a + 5 dB shelving gain from 100 Hz and below, after the GLM calibration is done in a normal 26 sq.m livingroom. This can be done manually in GLM. The resulting freq. curve is almost the same as Toole/Olive has found prefered in their research .
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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The sound is a bit clearer with more spatial details than before .
Very nice :)
 

ernestcarl

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I have now tested the new GLM4 firmware and also downloaded new crossover firmware to my Genelec 8340 loudspeakers .

The sonical results are better than the last GLM version, after new calibration. If you dont have GLM4 4.2.0 or have not downloaded the new firmware for your SAM monitors , do it ! :)

The result is well worth the time spent .
This time, I didnt need any other manual correction after GLM calibration than the usual + 5 dB shelving in the bass , starting at 100 Hz . I used High shelf 2 at -5 dB to do this , lowering everything from 100-20000 Hz .
View attachment 212351

What would you say is the improvement in your own system? Mainly from the new xo EQ?
 

Trell

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I have now tested the new GLM4 firmware and also downloaded new crossover firmware to my Genelec 8340 loudspeakers .

The sonical results are better than the last GLM version, after new calibration. If you dont have GLM4 4.2.0 or have not downloaded the new firmware for your SAM monitors , do it ! :)

The result is well worth the time spent .
This time, I didnt need any other manual correction after GLM calibration than the usual + 5 dB shelving in the bass , starting at 100 Hz . I used High shelf 2 at -5 dB to do this , lowering everything from 100-20000 Hz .
View attachment 212351

In 4.2.0 there where only new firmware for the Ones, according to release notes. Perhaps you forgot to update firmware earlier?

That said, I’ve the 8330A and they did not get new firmware this round nor my 7360 subwoofer, or the GLM adapter. I just checked again, in case I missed that myself.
 
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Zaireeka

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No firmware update for the 8350s yet...

But yeah GLM 4.2 works like a charm
 

Trell

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No firmware update for the 8350s yet...

But yeah GLM 4.2 works like a charm

I wish Genelec would implement that one can retake a measurement instead of redoing all of them in case of noise. Perhaps not an issue in a studio but in a home environment it certainly is for me.
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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It was almost a year I did the last calibration with GLM . No new firmware that time for my speakers , maybe it has come a new firmware for 8340 sometime during this last year.
 

Trell

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It was almost a year I did the last calibration with GLM . No new firmware that time for my speakers , maybe it has come a new firmware for 8340 sometime during this last year.

Yes it has and where required to take advantage of the new features of new version of GLM.

You should check that the GLM adapter has up to date firmware as well, in case you’ve not already done so. Just click on the G symbol on lower left in the GLM app.
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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Yes it has and where required to take advantage of the new features of new version of GLM.

You should check that the GLM adapter has up to date firmware as well, in case you’ve not already done so. Just click on the G symbol on lower left in the GLM app.
My brother had already done it :)
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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As one can see in the first post, the GLM 4.2.0 have the ability to do + dB corrections, meaning after calibration, the GLM software have done some compensation for SBIR . + 4 dB at 279 Hz and Q = 0,7
 
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srrxr71

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I just today noticed something about GLM.

Basically the sound character profiler only works on the monitors. It does not touch the subs. I don’t understand this. I’m sort of upset that it works this way. What’s the point of profiling the sound characteristics of it doesn’t change the associated subs?

Now I also wonder if I were to overlap the crossover points. Say I let my mains go down to 50Hz and let the subs go up to 70Hz. Will it compensate for that?

The lack of a holistic control on the top is very irritating for the home listener. The lack of holistic compensation of the subs with each other and the monitors is also irritating.

Yes it adjusts levels overall but will it apply a filter to any overlapping frequencies? Then allow for a top level preference? The former - not sure. The latter for sure - no.

Let’s not even get into if it will use one sub to fill in for a dip on another sub if that sub is in an acoustically favorable position to compensate for the other sub which could be in a unfavorable position for that frequency.

When is this all going to be implemented. They know by now many of us are using these for listening.

Please see that SCP is only applicable to the monitors themselves.


EDIT: after expressing my “outrage” I realize tangband’s suggestion to just manually play with the filters is the only way to go. Just do it yourself. Don’t count on SCP raise the subs.
 

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Trell

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EDIT: after expressing my “outrage” I realize tangband’s suggestion to just manually play with the filters is the only way to go. Just do it yourself. Don’t count on SCP raise the subs.

This is what I did before I got the RME ADI-2 DAC FS that has onboard DSP.
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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I just today noticed something about GLM.

Basically the sound character profiler only works on the monitors. It does not touch the subs. I don’t understand this. I’m sort of upset that it works this way. What’s the point of profiling the sound characteristics of it doesn’t change the associated subs?

Now I also wonder if I were to overlap the crossover points. Say I let my mains go down to 50Hz and let the subs go up to 70Hz. Will it compensate for that?

The lack of a holistic control on the top is very irritating for the home listener. The lack of holistic compensation of the subs with each other and the monitors is also irritating.

Yes it adjusts levels overall but will it apply a filter to any overlapping frequencies? Then allow for a top level preference? The former - not sure. The latter for sure - no.

Let’s not even get into if it will use one sub to fill in for a dip on another sub if that sub is in an acoustically favorable position to compensate for the other sub which could be in a unfavorable position for that frequency.

When is this all going to be implemented. They know by now many of us are using these for listening.

Please see that SCP is only applicable to the monitors themselves.


EDIT: after expressing my “outrage” I realize tangband’s suggestion to just manually play with the filters is the only way to go. Just do it yourself. Don’t count on SCP raise the subs.
For really outstanding sound results, yes - You cant rely only on the measurements. The corrections that GLM make can be to big or to small. You listen not only with your ears, but also with your mood and your eyes. The eyes sees the room and expect it somewhat to sound like a room, not outdoors. Roomcorrection must be done with care.

Heres one way to do this:

1. Always set up the two front loudspeakers in the room on proper stands about 60 cm high, ( 8341,8340 ) where they alone can play very good bass tunes with real music without any GLM corrections and without subwoofers.This is very important. Play with the distance to the front wall and the distance between the two speakers. Listen from the listening position using music.

2. Then put your two subwoofers on the floor, on the direct inside of each L and R speaker. After this - do the GLM measurements with the mic at exact ear position, and at the listeningposition using a microphone stand . Use only one correction spot in GLM !

3.Try listening with autophase, but also without autophase. Try the same crossover frequency OR try slightly overlap or underlap. Try putting autophase to 0 degrees and try different values.
As an example of underlap or overlap: 60 Hz LP and 65 Hz HP, or 70 Hz LP and 65 Hz HP . Use the best sounding setting by listening to the bass tunes with real music playing.

The GLM or any other room correction program cant decide whats tuneful in the bass area or not. We as humans are musical and programs and computers are not.

4. Gain optimisation must be correct and you do this when you are saving everything to your loudspeakers. I suggest setting the GLM drawbar to -30 dB as a start. Save it into the speakers. This way you can use a digital DDC ( computer or Yamaha wxc50 ) or analog source preamp with some volume regulation at the source, also airplay without any big sound penaltys. Its always better to feed those GLM monitors with a loud digital signal or analog signals, so the dsp can work without to much truncation and loss of data. The volume drawbar in GLM works AFTER the dsp.

5. Dont expect that the default crossover frequency at 85 Hz will sound the best. With my gear ( 8340 and 7350:s ) the sound is best with a crossover at 55 Hz in my listeningroom. You can change the crossover settings at any time (Edit) without doing a new GLM meaurement. Try sound caracter profiler and try print - 3,5 dB from 100 Hz - meaning that you lower everything from 100 Hz and above that frequency.

6. After some hours or days deciding what sounds best by ear, listening to bass tunes, fine tuning the settings - save everything into the speakers ( dont forget to set the gain drawbar to -30 dB ) and then put away the GLM kit.

7. Now you can do some interesting comparisons - you can switch the dip switch STORED on the back of each L/R speaker , and compare the sound with or without STORED (stored=GLM , off = no GLM correction. )
The sound should be better on all accounts with the switched STORED on, If its not, you have done something wrong with the GLM setup.
 
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Trell

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For really outstanding sound results, yes - You cant rely only on the measurements. The corrections that GLM make can be to big or to small. You listen not only with your ears, but also with your mood and your eyes. The eyes sees the room and expect it somewhat to sound like a room, not outdoors. Roomcorrection must be done with care.

Heres one way to do this:

1. Always set up the two front loudspeakers in the room on proper stands about 60 cm high, ( 8341,8340 ) where they alone can play very good bass tunes with real music without any GLM corrections and without subwoofers.This is very important. Play with the distance to the front wall and the distance between the two speakers. Listen from the listening position using music.

2. Then put your two subwoofers on the floor, on the direct inside of each L and R speaker. After this - do the GLM measurements with the mic at exact ear position, and at the listeningposition using a microphone stand . Use only one correction spot in GLM !

3.Try listening with autophase, but also without autophase. Try the same crossover frequency OR try slightly overlap or underlap. Try putting autophase to 0 degrees and try different values.
As an example of underlap or overlap: 60 Hz LP and 65 Hz HP, or 70 Hz LP and 65 Hz HP . Use the best sounding setting by listening to the bass tunes with real music playing.

The GLM or any other room correction program cant decide whats tuneful in the bass area or not. We as humans are musical and programs and computers are not.

4. Gain stage must be correct and you do this when you are saving everything to your loudspeakers. I suggest setting the GLM drawbar to -30 dB as a start. Save it into the speakers. This way you can use a digital DDC ( computer or Yamaha wxc50 ) or analog source preamp with some volume regulation at the source, also airplay without any big sound penaltys. Its always better to feed those GLM monitors with a loud digital signal or analog signals, so the dsp can work without to much truncation and loss of data. The volume drawbar in GLM works AFTER the dsp.

5. Dont expect that the default crossover frequency at 85 Hz will sound the best. With my gear ( 8340 and 7350:s ) the sound is best with a crossover at 55 Hz in my listeningroom. You can change the crossover settings at any time (Edit) without doing a new GLM meaurement. Try sound caracter profiler and try print - 3,5 dB from 100 Hz - meaning that you lower everything from 100 Hz and above that frequency.

6. After some hours or days deciding what sounds best by ear, fine tuning the settings - save everything into the speakers and put away the GLM kit.

7. Now you can do some interesting comparisons - you can switch the dip switch STORED on the back of each L/R speaker , and compare the sound with or without STORED (stored=GLM , off = no GLM correction. )
The sound should be better on all accounts with the switched STORED on, If its not, you have done something wrong with the GLM setup.
And of course look at the measurements while positioning monitors and subwoofers, as well as possible changing main listening position.

By just listing only you ignore very useful information that GLM gives you for placement as well as choice of crossover.
 

srrxr71

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For really outstanding sound results, yes - You cant rely only on the measurements. The corrections that GLM make can be to big or to small. You listen not only with your ears, but also with your mood and your eyes. The eyes sees the room and expect it somewhat to sound like a room, not outdoors. Roomcorrection must be done with care.

Heres one way to do this:

1. Always set up the two front loudspeakers in the room on proper stands about 60 cm high, ( 8341,8340 ) where they alone can play very good bass tunes with real music without any GLM corrections and without subwoofers.This is very important. Play with the distance to the front wall and the distance between the two speakers. Listen from the listening position using music.

2. Then put your two subwoofers on the floor, on the direct inside of each L and R speaker. After this - do the GLM measurements with the mic at exact ear position, and at the listeningposition using a microphone stand . Use only one correction spot in GLM !

3.Try listening with autophase, but also without autophase. Try the same crossover frequency OR try slightly overlap or underlap. Try putting autophase to 0 degrees and try different values.
As an example of underlap or overlap: 60 Hz LP and 65 Hz HP, or 70 Hz LP and 65 Hz HP . Use the best sounding setting by listening to the bass tunes with real music playing.

The GLM or any other room correction program cant decide whats tuneful in the bass area or not. We as humans are musical and programs and computers are not.

4. Gain stage must be correct and you do this when you are saving everything to your loudspeakers. I suggest setting the GLM drawbar to -30 dB as a start. Save it into the speakers. This way you can use a digital DDC ( computer or Yamaha wxc50 ) or analog source preamp with some volume regulation at the source, also airplay without any big sound penaltys. Its always better to feed those GLM monitors with a loud digital signal or analog signals, so the dsp can work without to much truncation and loss of data. The volume drawbar in GLM works AFTER the dsp.

5. Dont expect that the default crossover frequency at 85 Hz will sound the best. With my gear ( 8340 and 7350:s ) the sound is best with a crossover at 55 Hz in my listeningroom. You can change the crossover settings at any time (Edit) without doing a new GLM meaurement. Try sound caracter profiler and try print - 3,5 dB from 100 Hz - meaning that you lower everything from 100 Hz and above that frequency.

6. After some hours or days deciding what sounds best by ear, listening to bass tunes, fine tuning the settings - save everything into the speakers ( dont forget to set the gain drawbar to -30 dB ) and then put away the GLM kit.

7. Now you can do some interesting comparisons - you can switch the dip switch STORED on the back of each L/R speaker , and compare the sound with or without STORED (stored=GLM , off = no GLM correction. )
The sound should be better on all accounts with the switched STORED on, If it’s not, you have done something wrong with the GLM setup.
I have pretty much done that but still working on 1 as the left monitor has a large dip at 75Hz. The right monitor is pretty flat without correction.

My question is about 4. So I keep all my digital sources maxed out (windows at 98 volume) however I use the GLM volume control for gain. Do I still need to set a gain into the monitors?

I have played with crossovers and yes lower is tighter. Also keeps my subs’ headroom higher.



For 7, I can just hit the calibration button in GLM to turn on and off calibration to compare. Also I can turn off the bass management and the subs by toggling “bass management” in GLM. Always good to check. Sometimes there is a surprise which needs to be fixed.

Totally agree that final tuning must be by hand and ear.
 
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Tangband

Tangband

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I have pretty much done that but still working on 1 as the left monitor has a large dip at 75Hz. The right monitor is pretty flat without correction.

My question is about 4. So I keep all my digital sources maxed out (windows at 98 volume) however I use the GLM volume control for gain. Do I still need to set a gain into the monitors?

I have played with crossovers and yes lower is tighter. Also keeps my subs’ headroom higher.



For 7, I can just hit the calibration button in GLM to turn on and off calibration to compare. Also I can turn off the bass management and the subs by toggling “bass management” in GLM. Always good to check. Sometimes there is a surprise which needs to be fixed.

Totally agree that final tuning must be by hand and ear.
If you have the GLM kit connected all the time , the best sound is to use the GLM drawer for volume regulation ( works after the dsp ) and have the digital source volume into the loudspeakers at full level, yes. In this case, theres no need to set the gain .

And yes - If You have the GLM kit connected all the time its very easy to do comparisons .
 

Trell

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I have pretty much done that but still working on 1 as the left monitor has a large dip at 75Hz. The right monitor is pretty flat without correction.
This is where a subwoofer and a higher crossover can be useful if the subwoofer can be placed in a better position than the monitor. Do note that Genelec has a steep 48 dB/octave crossover slope.
 

Trell

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My question is about 4. So I keep all my digital sources maxed out (windows at 98 volume) however I use the GLM volume control for gain. Do I still need to set a gain into the monitors?
Do you use digital or analog inputs to the Genelec?
 
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