GGNTKT Model M1

[richard12511]

How different will the M2 and M1 be in terms of dispersion width?

 

[roland{at}GGNTKT]

Given that your cardoid is more about the midrange than the bass, I am extra hesitant as to how to tame that bass in my room (no need for advice - I have help with it already), or am I mistaken as to where it has effect?

Yes, Model M1 cardioid pattern works down to 200 Hz. But even below the back sided drivers and shallow cabinet size both help to reduce cancellation if the speaker is place near a wall.

Ok so at 2.4 meters listening distance I'm in M1 territory notice that you speakers don't overlap what about 4 meters away ?

Right, @2.4m you're probably be fine with Model M1, @4m you might choose Model M2.

And windows behind the speakers ? for M1 as they be on stands if i had M2 the back bass driver is at floor level so not directly against the windows.

Well, glass behind speakers is always a bad idea, as they do reflect even highest frequency and are prone to vibrate on higher SPL. Model M2 back sided drivers won't make much difference as bass is radiated in all directions anyway. The cardioid mode might help to reduce some of these effects.

But the room is about 3.2 m deep and 7 meters wide 2,4 m heigth and a big arch opening to the rest of the house lossy materials in roof and most walls so i never get that "pressure" feeling you get in a car regardless of playback levels with my current system. (one wall is concrete and bricks the wall behind LP )

I would suggest you talk to an acoustical engineer as there are many parameters going on here. Bass is the hardest thing to get right. You probably need more SPL and a different placement, maybe even a multi sub-system.

How different will the M2 and M1 be in terms of dispersion width?

I can't tell, because development hasn't been finished yet. It's more narrow than the Model M1 140° in the horizontal plane.

 

[Mesh]

Yes, Model M1 cardioid pattern works down to 200 Hz. But even below the back sided drivers and shallow cabinet size both help to reduce cancellation if the speaker is place near a wall.

You may want to consider changing the website, btw, as it lists it as "up to 200 Hz cardoid radiation pattern".

 

[Ro808]

Roland, the comp. driver in the M1 is the CDX1-1740?

MfG,

Roland

 

[Tovarich007]

Hi there!

thanks for highlighting our Model M1. I was notified by our engineer that our active speakers were discussed here and so I joined this board.

My name is Roland and I'm the founder of GGNTKT – the company with the password-generator-name (Right, its German for "Gegentakt"... and the fact that you do talk about the name, ensures that you will remember it). We started in 2018 and were in stealth-mode for about 12 months to develop Model M1 and also two others. As you might have guessed we have a strong orientation towards evidence-based design. I myself am no an acoustical engineer (at least I'm holding a computer science degree), but we joined forces with well-known talents in the industry and also have access to many Klippel tools, including the NFS. Coming from DIY I build my first speaker more the 25 years ago and over time passion grew into profession. In 2015 I co-founded Schanks Audio which was specialized in motional feedback technology and highly vertical integrated for such a small company.

I always wanted to have speakers with a certain level of aesthetics and industrial design, combined with the best possible acoustical performance in a given form factor. Yes, you could argue the B&O is also trying that, and its true. But I think they are a bit more on the design side and do sacrifice performance here and there. The reason why Model M1 (and also upcoming Model M2) has a wide baffle is because of that – I liked the design and its works acoustically very well.

Model M1 is a very compact speaker with less than 10l internal volume and you will be surprised when you see the only 140mm/5,5” deep/flat cabinet the first time. The goal was (1) very controlled radiation pattern with constant directivity, (2) high SPL and (3) distortion below hearing thresholds, whereas (2) + (3) do interact very much.

Obviously, we use the same SB Acoustics Aluminum drivers that Buchardt, Revel and others are using, since they are extremely low distortion designs (by former Scan-Speak masterminds). I even think it’s the best driver in its class, except the new Purify drivers (which were not available then). We decided against a ventilated cabinet, because in a small 2-way design it’s very difficult to get a clean midband even with passive radiators. Also designing a noiseless and resonance-free port is not that easy. So, went with a closed cabinet and to meet our SPL goals we had to put in three (!) SB drivers and a lot of amping power. That was a quite expansive decision but gave us the best results. The two drivers in the back are used to create a cardioid radiation pattern which extends the constant directivity to apx. 250 Hz. Below that frequency all three woofers do play bass in parallel (in phase). Since we have full three channels per speaker, we can apply different radiation patters (right now there is no-cardioid, supercardioid/135° and hypercardioid/180°).

As for the HF region we wanted drivers that radiate a plane wavefront which make the integration to any waveguide and therefore shaping directivity much easier and cleaner, so that’s why we went with a compression driver. Also, a nice side effect is the high SPL capabilities which are 5-10dB more than most dome tweeters, very useful in home cinema use cases. As evidence-based designers know there is no “tweeter-sound”, it all comes from radiation/directivity and partly from distortion (if above hearing thresholds). That is why for us there is no dogma in drivers types (domes, ribbon, AMT, Compressions, etc) and materials.

Because of the compact cabinet we decided to swap the electronics out, so all DSP-processing and amping is done outside for all six channels, so there is one 1U case to drive a pair of Model M1. We use Pascal U-PRO2S(D) class-d amps and do source our DSP from a German premium brand Fouraudio, because of their excellent software. Most of our filtering is FIR based, so Model M1 is linear phase 20 Hz – 20 kHz.

I could go on and write much more, but feel free to ask and have a look on some pictures:
https://www.instagram.com/ggntktaudio/

Thanks again,
Roland

PS: There will be Model M2 and a third home cinema Speaker (codename SRND), both before the end of the year...

Dear Roland,

I am a french music lover and audiophile new member on this forum, though I regularly read ASR reviews since I have discovered ASR, about one year ago.
I put music lover first and I don't like what I call audiophilia snobism -unjustified very high prices of products, moreover many of them being plagued with obsolete or flawed designs.

So, I am particularly attracted and impressed by your speakers and by your fresh and rational approach.

The M1 price, even the higher version, is quite interesting (7K€ is much lower than D&D and Kii audio, slightly lower than the Genelec 8351 and 8361 (all these speakers being excellent too, I admit) and it's lower too than very good passive designs like Revel Performa 226 or 228 Be or Magico A3 (good sounding, well designed and built speakers, I respect Revel and Magico, but anyway I consider passive speakers mostly as a a technology of the past).

I have 2 questions and a remark.

My questions :

1 - Any french distribution planned for your brand ? if not, how and where listen to them (when this awful pandemia will be over, I wish ASAP) ?
2- Which approximate price tag for the future (and promising) M2 ?

my remark :

Well, as for the name you chose for your company, I am sorry to tell, but for a french or latin person, and probably many other non german people, it's a nightmare to pronounce and to remember as well. I guess you're wrong when you assert that making a buzz about it can be a good way to remember the name. I think memory is a mental process more complicated than that...

I don't want to give you any recommandation, but I am afraid that this name could be a commercial handicap for your company, and that would be SOOO BAD, your speakers being so well designed and attractive looking !

My best wishes for the future of your company, with or without a name change. Hoping to have a listen to your speakers soon.

 

[Tovarich007]

Another question :

The M1 is designed to be set close from the back wall.
Is it a serious problem to place it farther, say about 1 meter from he back wall ?
Will the cardiod pattern be efficient, even in a lesser degree, in such a setting ? what do you suggest if, for room conveninency, it is not really feasable to place it optimally near the back wall ?

 

[Moonhead]

Nice to see newer companies using high quality SB drivers, like barefoot footprint.

 

[Zaireeka]

Same situation here, I'm french and I'm seriously considering buying a pair of M1, but I'd rather buy it directly from you at GGNTKT instead of paying extra € for a middle-man seller.

 

[Tovarich007]

Right Zaireeka, I partly agree, I don't like hifi middle men too, (many of them are greedy and/or incompetent in France) but I like to listen carefully before buying, so a showroom as to be considered.

And also, what about the organization of after-sales service (SAV in french) if a failure occurs - this is always possble, event with the most serious makers. As for me, reliability and AFS are key points, at least as important as sound quality.

I don't doubt GNNTKT speakers and electronics are very seriously designed and built but, you know what we say : "on ne sait jamais" (one never knows)...

 

[Purité Audio]

Manufacturers when they don’t have a local distributor do send loudspeakers directly to clients, you would probably have to pay up front, but the M1’s aren’t that heavy, and set-up/measurement could be performed remotely.
They are super loudspeakers, listening to mine at the moment.
Keith

 

[Hephaestus]

Another question :

The M1 is designed to be set close from the back wall.
Is it a serious problem to place it farther, say about 1 meter from he back wall ?
Will the cardiod pattern be efficient, even in a lesser degree, in such a setting ? what do you suggest if, for room conveninency, it is not really feasable to place it optimally near the back wall ?

M1 has cardioid radiation pattern down to 200Hz.
You can use quarter / half wavelength cancellation calculator to figure out how to position them:
http://www.mh-audio.nl/acoustics/CancellationFreq.html

 

[Zvu]

Nice to see newer companies using high quality SB drivers, like barefoot footprint.

Which Barefoot model uses SBacoustics drivers ?

 

[Moonhead]

SB satori tweeter in barefoot, which I have in my speakers, they are stunningly good, not sure about the drivers.

 

[Zvu]

Which model ?

Midranges and midwoofers are Peerless, most tweeters are ring radiator ScanSpeak (or Peerless) and subs are custom (never saw it before).

 

[Moonhead]

Sinar Baja is ScanSpeak engineering from Indonesia, so better and as a bonus cheaper. Might not be the exact same model, but pretty sure it’s one of the satori tweeter from SB.
https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/satori-tw29rb.html

 

[roland{at}GGNTKT]

Dear Roland,
1 - Any french distribution planned for your brand ? if not, how and where listen to them (when this awful pandemia will be over, I wish ASAP) ?
2- Which approximate price tag for the future (and promising) M2 ?

Same situation here, I'm french and I'm seriously considering buying a pair of M1, but I'd rather buy it directly from you at GGNTKT instead of paying extra € for a middle-man seller.

Unfortunately there is no French distributor as for now. Sure, its possible to buy directly from factory. We might also arrange a trail together with the dealer you trust. Just drop us a line info {at} ggntkt.de an we'll find a solution.

PS: M2 price is still not set, but expect apx. 2x as much as Model M1.

 

[roland{at}GGNTKT]

Another question :

The M1 is designed to be set close from the back wall.
Is it a serious problem to place it farther, say about 1 meter from he back wall ?
Will the cardiod pattern be efficient, even in a lesser degree, in such a setting ? what do you suggest if, for room conveninency, it is not really feasable to place it optimally near the back wall ?

Not a problem, Model M1 will also work fine in "ordinary" distances from the wall. It just doesn't suffer that much placed near wall. For best results you have to EQ the bass (typically <200...300 Hz) anyway and you will see with the cardioid pattern that there is less cancelation (due to less reflections at the null/180°).

As with every speaker: What you will lose while going away from wall(s) is bass boost – whether that's good and bad depends on your room and has to be EQ'd.

 

[Ro808]

Roland, the comp. driver in the M1 is the CDX1-1740?

A little dissection.

Driver in the M1:

Diaphragm + innards:

Celestion CDX1-1740:

Diaphragm:

 

[Purité Audio]

Rule Britannia ... you don’t often see U.K. made components... ( are they actually made in the U.K.)?
Keith

 

[Ro808]

China (of course)

"While large-scale volume manufacturing takes place in Celestion’s Huizhou, China-based factory, the Ipswich headquarters handles some manufacturing as well, specifically building small-run, specialist and high-value products."

Precision Devices and Volt drivers are still made in England.