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GGNTKT Model M1

Tovarich007

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Celestion, such a great name ! When I was young and get started in hifi hobby, Celestion speakers were on the short list of every hifi nuts, alongside Tannoy, the first Kefs, french brands like Elipson, Cabasse, the first JM Reynaud's, and of course JBL or Acoustic Research (I'm talking about my country in the old pre-global economy), but enough nostalgia.

I didn't know GG...T use Celestion compression drivers, but why not, I hope Celestion's quality remained thru the times...
 

Tovarich007

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Not a problem, Model M1 will also work fine in "ordinary" distances from the wall. It just doesn't suffer that much placed near wall. For best results you have to EQ the bass (typically <200...300 Hz) anyway and you will see with the cardioid pattern that there is less cancelation (due to less reflections at the null/180°).

As with every speaker: What you will lose while going away from wall(s) is bass boost – whether that's good and bad depends on your room and has to be EQ'd.

Thanks a lot for your precise answers, Roland
 

Tovarich007

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China (of course) :eek:

Not a problem in itself. Chinese OEM factories can make very fine and reliable products if they want too.
But their western client companies have to monitor them closely in order to make them respect the work specifications.
 

Ro808

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Celestion, such a great name ! When I was young and get started in hifi hobby, Celestion speakers were on the short list of every hifi nuts, alongside Tannoy, the first Kefs, french brands like Elipson, Cabasse, the first JM Reynaud's, and of course JBL or Acoustic Research (I'm talking about my country in the old pre-global economy), but enough nostalgia.

I didn't know GG...T use Celestion compression drivers, but why not, I hope Celestion's quality remained thru the times...

Celestion employs some of the best engineers and scientists and has state-of-the-art lab and test facilities.
The quality of the production in China is probably better than that of the old UK factories.
 

Tovarich007

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Celestion employs some of the best engineers and scientists and has state-of-the-art lab and test facilities.
The quality of the production in China is probably better than that of the old UK factories.

Probably, you are right. For instance, Quad's electrostatic speakers are much more reliable now they're made in China than they were made in UK.

But the compression driver model used by GGNTKT is mainly aimed at high SPL sound systems for outdoor or large venues, not for hfi or domestic home theater. Could that be a limitation in sound finesse ? Maybe not, but I'd like to be sure of it.
 

Tovarich007

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I have another question for Roland and his team :

The acoustic wave guide is pretty large in the horizontal domain. So what is the approximate optimal listening distance for your two models of speakers, not to make sound compromized by lateral walls reflexions ? Of course, i guess good acoustic calibration or physical treatment of the room is recommanded to get the best sound possible ?
 

roland{at}GGNTKT

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But the compression driver model used by GGNTKT is mainly aimed at high SPL sound systems for outdoor or large venues, not for hfi or domestic home theater. Could that be a limitation in sound finesse ? Maybe not, but I'd like to be sure of it.

That's a common missunderstanding. Modern compression drivers did make quite a few advances in the last years and are on par with the most audiophile dome drivers. They can just play louder (a lot).

Also SPL and THD have a tight relationship, so if you can play louder you will end up with lower THD on moderate SPL. Just look at our measurements and name a dome tweeter hat can deliver <0,1% K3 @1Hz @100dB.

Another advantage is that compression drivers can be easily paired with a horn or waveguide because of the wavefront they generate. So you end up with a cleaner transition to whatever you want to shape the dispersion.


The acoustic wave guide is pretty large in the horizontal domain. So what is the approximate optimal listening distance for your two models of speakers, not to make sound compromized by lateral walls reflexions ? Of course, i guess good acoustic calibration or physical treatment of the room is recommanded to get the best sound possible ?

Model M1 has 140 x 100° directivity so very wide in the horizontal plane which is very useful for near field application (>1m ). Since it's also constant directivity, reflections will "sound" almost the same, they are just delayed. But if you have too much reflections the sound will become too diffuse, but that highly dependent on your room (size and treatment). In my experience the transition point in common listening rooms is at about 3m or a bit more. So at 1-3m you will be fine.

As with Model S1 it's more optimized on a defined listening position that you will find in most home theaters. It has an even wider directivity pattern in the horizontal plane (full half space = 180°) but extremely narrow vertical directivity. This is because speaker mounting height and ear level are well defined and interact with distance and directivity. Combining those properties leads to a very even sound distribution. Also flour and ceiling reflections are highly reduced, so you can sit at 5, 6 or more meters away. 1-6m works out well.
 

Zaireeka

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Unfortunately there is no French distributor as for now. Sure, its possible to buy directly from factory. We might also arrange a trail together with the dealer you trust. Just drop us a line info {at} ggntkt.de an we'll find a solution.

PS: M2 price is still not set, but expect apx. 2x as much as Model M1.

Thanks for your answer! By the way, any plan on sending Amir a pair for a nice Klippel session? A positive review here would really seal the deal for a lot of reader of the ASR forum.

I'm also really curious about the M2 too!
 

TimVG

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Thanks for your answer! By the way, any plan on sending Amir a pair for a nice Klippel session? A positive review here would really seal the deal for a lot of reader of the ASR forum.

I'm also really curious about the M2 too!

Seeing as how the NFS was already used for the development of this speaker it makes sending it over a bit redundant, no?
 

Zaireeka

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Yeah maybe, but I think a a second opinion would confirm the manufacturer's claim and give the team even more credit. And I'd love to read Amir's review on this particular design.
 

Tovarich007

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That's a common missunderstanding. Modern compression drivers did make quite a few advances in the last years and are on par with the most audiophile dome drivers. They can just play louder (a lot).

Also SPL and THD have a tight relationship, so if you can play louder you will end up with lower THD on moderate SPL. Just look at our measurements and name a dome tweeter hat can deliver <0,1% K3 @1Hz @100dB.

Another advantage is that compression drivers can be easily paired with a horn or waveguide because of the wavefront they generate. So you end up with a cleaner transition to whatever you want to shape the dispersion.




Model M1 has 140 x 100° directivity so very wide in the horizontal plane which is very useful for near field application (>1m ). Since it's also constant directivity, reflections will "sound" almost the same, they are just delayed. But if you have too much reflections the sound will become too diffuse, but that highly dependent on your room (size and treatment). In my experience the transition point in common listening rooms is at about 3m or a bit more. So at 1-3m you will be fine.

As with Model S1 it's more optimized on a defined listening position that you will find in most home theaters. It has an even wider directivity pattern in the horizontal plane (full half space = 180°) but extremely narrow vertical directivity. This is because speaker mounting height and ear level are well defined and interact with distance and directivity. Combining those properties leads to a very even sound distribution. Also flour and ceiling reflections are highly reduced, so you can sit at 5, 6 or more meters away. 1-6m works out well.

Many thanks Roland for your quick and precise answers. I am comforted now (concerning the tweeter's quality) .
 
OP
q3cpma

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Just look at our measurements and name a dome tweeter hat can deliver <0,1% K3 @1Hz @100dB.
Supposed you meant 10 kHz, as the M1 crosses at 1.8, right? Of course, this isn't very fair, as the KH420A is a 3-way speaker.
KH420_THD_100_510.gif

Harmonic Distortion at 100 dB SPL (Purple: THD, Red: 2nd harmonic, Green: 3rd harmonic)
 

Ro808

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But the compression driver model used by GGNTKT is mainly aimed at high SPL sound systems for outdoor or large venues, not for hfi or domestic home theater. Could that be a limitation in sound finesse ? Maybe not, but I'd like to be sure of it.

It depends on the driver and the implementation.
The driver in the M1 is quite advanced, with a specially formed diaphragm that is "soft-suspended". In the M1 it's also used within the specified frequency range, which is indeed aimed at high SPL in PA applications. With a crossover point at 1800 Hz, distortion remains low and in terms of output capacity the Celestion outperforms the 3 SB-Acoustics woofers quite easily.

The common misconceptions regarding PA drivers stem from the old days when drivers were pushed out of their comfort zone and crossovers, amplifiers, etc. were huge bottlenecks.
 
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Tovarich007

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Roland and you, Ro 808, have definitely convinced me.

This kind of modern compression tweeter are perfectly valid for a good hifi system.
GGNTKT Roland have posted above the same answer as you,.
 

Ro808

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This not only applies to compression drivers, but also to woofers.
Imo efficiency is a key element in speaker design, and I would trade some low-frequency extension for a higher η0.
However, the choice of the SBA woofers in the M1 makes sense.

As it stands, the GGNTKT M2 gets professional woofers.
Perhaps based on this motor technology?


QLEX.jpg


Maltcross.png
 
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DJBonoBobo

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The latest issue of Sound & Recording (2/2021) features a review of the GGNTKT M1S: https://www.soundandrecording.de/shop/sound-recording-02-2021/
It is not available for free yet, but you could buy the PDF-magazine (german) for 7,80 EUR, if you want. I don´t own this issue and have not read the review.
 

brandall10

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Celestion employs some of the best engineers and scientists and has state-of-the-art lab and test facilities.
The quality of the production in China is probably better than that of the old UK factories.

I had no idea that Celestion actually made hifi driver. They're well known in the guitar speaker market. FWIW, they still have a UK factory making high-end variants.
 

Tovarich007

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The latest issue of Sound & Recording (2/2021) features a review of the GGNTKT M1S: https://www.soundandrecording.de/shop/sound-recording-02-2021/
It is not available for free yet, but you could buy the PDF-magazine (german) for 7,80 EUR, if you want. I don´t own this issue and have not read the review.

The GGNTKT M1S is different from the M1 without S ? Because I see no model M1S on GGNTKT website, only the M1 we're talking about in this thread...
 

Tovarich007

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Thanks for your precision, indeed it's a more powerful version. No other difference than the power amps and 3Db more of max SPL, and +1 000 €.
IMHO, the standard version will largely fulfill the requirements of the vast majority of users and his value for money is superior.
 
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