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General reliability of big Chinese brands?

I would love to buy a USA made headphone amp, and I looked hard to find one

I worked at one of the largest electronics company in the world; definitely the one with most revenue and money in the bank. People like to trash talk about this company, because its products are expensive and people think it's products are elitist. Reality is that this company's focus is to make products with best user experience and quality; cost is not high priority. The result is that the products are high quality, but also expensive. It doesn't go about thinking that it will make an expensive product and highest margin; and try to make money off consumers. By the way, assembly is done in China.

For manufacturing, I prefer to have the product made offshore (China, Vietnam, or wherever) instead of USA. Today, process control and manufacturing quality are actually higher in Asian manufacturing than US manufacturing. And the cost of manufacturing is cheaper. Yes, lower cost and better results.

The issue is QC acceptance of company that sells the products. When priority is on sale price and cost cutting, QC is basically is secondary to saving money. And the result is inferior products with high defect rate. And unfortunately many new and upcoming Chinese companies tend to fall into this category. Their value proposition is low pricing.

Why does QC affect price? Let's say factory will make 100 units for $10,000. If all 100 units are accepted, the cost is $100 each. If there are 5 units that are rejected, the cost becomes $105 each. If there are 10 units rejected, cost is $111 each. This is just a simple example. But you get the idea. Higher quality standard means tighter tolerances, less units are accepted, and cost increases.

There are engineering methods to improve quality. Thru robust design, tighter process control, improved tolerances, better machines, etc. But these engineering efforts take time and cost resources, which will add to product cost.

So when Chinese companies' focus is to make low cost products, they accept parts with wider tolerances or even known defects. And these products can have higher failure rates.

What is more important to consumer? Is it cheaper product or better product? There is no straight answer. It is likely a balance, somewhere in between. For headphones and audio equipment with low volume, prices are not cheap and is toward premium side (relatively). So we would expect quality product for premium pricing. But when QC issue occur, there is a deviation from expectation.
 
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None of those are made in the US except the jotenheim which doesn’t perform well with low impedance headphones like my LCDs.

True but at least there are alternatives if you absolutely don't want Chinese products.

And there are Chinese brands that might be more realible than your usual entry level topping and sabaj etc devices.

Matrix audio for example. Singxer has a pretty good reputation. The more expensive stuff from SMSL and their fancy sub brand.

(I'm for example very happy with my SMSL SP400 and Singxer SA1. )

And like someone mentioned there would be RME and lake people from Germany. Both offer balanced devices.
 
None of the problems I've ever heard of with topping, gustard etc have been typical qc issues, flaky sockets, bad solder joints, failed board level component at time of shipping etc. They've been functional issues with incompatible secondary devices, software etc that's a different issue, though still a none working unit as far as the end user is concerned.

Features, not failures.
 
I needed a linear power supply for my Matrix X-S/PIDIF 2 DDC. The other forums were suggesting brands and models in excess of $400. I have a real thorn in my side with audiophiles who think because it cost more, it must be better. I found a Chinese LPS on eBay for under $100 and took a chance. I threw it up on my spectrum analyzer and oscilloscope to check for noise, distortion and other transients. My tests were near perfect and nothing that would affect audio. My only concern is the quality of the Chinese components and their longevity. I saved myself over $300.
 
The Van Alstine Transcendence RB 10 preamp has a headphone output. It didn't damage my headphones, but I use it as a preamp into a power amp. Can only say it sounds excellent.
 
I needed a linear power supply for my Matrix X-S/PIDIF 2 DDC. The other forums were suggesting brands and models in excess of $400. I have a real thorn in my side with audiophiles who think because it cost more, it must be better. I found a Chinese LPS on eBay for under $100 and took a chance. I threw it up on my spectrum analyzer and oscilloscope to check for noise, distortion and other transients. My tests were near perfect and nothing that would affect audio. My only concern is the quality of the Chinese components and their longevity. I saved myself over $300.
Longevity is a big concern for me. If I am in the studio 40+ hours per week that means the headphone amp is going to be on that long as well, which is a lot more than I imagine an average consumer will have it on. It worries me when the average consumer says it died on them in 2 months. What is that for me… a week or two? And if it breaks what am I supposed to do when I need to continue working? Reliability is worth a LOT of extra money to me.
 
Longevity is a big concern for me. If I am in the studio 40+ hours per week that means the headphone amp is going to be on that long as well, which is a lot more than I imagine an average consumer will have it on. It worries me when the average consumer says it died on them in 2 months. What is that for me… a week or two? And if it breaks what am I supposed to do when I need to continue working? Reliability is worth a LOT of extra money to me.

Then get something from RME that is intended to be used that much.
 
Longevity is a big concern for me. If I am in the studio 40+ hours per week that means the headphone amp is going to be on that long as well, which is a lot more than I imagine an average consumer will have it on. It worries me when the average consumer says it died on them in 2 months. What is that for me… a week or two? And if it breaks what am I supposed to do when I need to continue working? Reliability is worth a LOT of extra money to me.
you answered your question. Buy something that is known for reliability and great support service.
 
I prefer to have the product made offshore
Sounds like Apple. In any case, there are social variables, too. When investment and production jobs flow to low-wage countries, the U.S., European, and Japanese workers have a big problem. QC does not make up for that. And, the huge underclass of Chinese assembly line workers, sweatshop workers, delivery workers, and day laborers has a problem, too.
 
Sounds like Apple. In any case, there are social variables, too. When investment and production jobs flow to low-wage countries, the U.S., European, and Japanese workers have a big problem. QC does not make up for that. And, the huge underclass of Chinese assembly line workers, sweatshop workers, delivery workers, and day laborers has a problem, too.

Quite true. The social and economic issues will play out more in subsequent years when the U.S. becomes the world's No 2 economy and a Communist nation ascends to No. 1. Taiwan will be a litmus test, as Ukraine currently is. People vote with their wallets, but at some point non-economic factors begin to creep into that decision making.
 
when they import something into the EU, it has be compliant with EU regulations and directives
 
My impression is that the reliability/QC of some dominant Chinese brands' products (Topping for example) are not good. This Youtube-video shows an issue with Eversolo DMP-A6.
 
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One of the thing I like when using Digitec (local amazon) is that they show you return rate, warranty score and duration.

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One of the thing I like when using Digitec (local amazon) is that they show you return rate, warranty score and duration.
[...]
To be fair, though, this is what it looks like for the Fosi V3:

Return rates.jpg


Being on par with Yamaha doesn't look concerning to me. I share the general feeling that most of these products are designed to a cost, though. And the warranty "service" is limited to the mandatory seller warranty in the EU. The Chinese manufacturers don't have any local service centers and they generally don't offer a good warranty themselves.
 
I approach this gear in a certain way and I have not had any issues. In the past I have used Fosi V3, Fosi P4 (both sold). I am currently using Fosi DS2 for mobile duties and have a Topping E30ii/L30ii stack on my work desk.

1) Keep it cheap. I stick to max £150 per item. Not too much of a loss if it fails. I'd never buy one of their expensive products (eg; LA90), for me too much risk.
2) I try to buy locally if possible from online retailer I can return a product to (not always possible, see (1)).
3) Buy mature, never newly released products. We saw bad failures with PA5 and original L30. DX5ii gets a glowing review, then in 2 threads we have hundreds of postings about issues. I don't want to be a free beta tester for the manufacturer. Waiting for issues to be fully resolved, or waiting for (fixed) version 2 to be released is a good move.
4) Don't run them into expensive equipment. I'm happy to use the topping gear with Hifiman HE400se. I wouldn't hook up a £2k pair of DCA.

I've only had good experiences as a result.

Thanks.
 
Just for the record the SMSL Sanskrit ll dac l purchased failed after about a year with the USB input bricking and the remote stopped working. I bought a new remote. Then l used the optical input with a cd player for about a year of very light use and it died along with the coax input. I m reluctant to buy another product from this company. Their customer service was useless too.

My Fosi P4 and ifi zen blue light, 6 months and 3 years respectively, are still good.
 
4) Don't run them into expensive equipment. I'm happy to use the topping gear with Hifiman HE400se. I wouldn't hook up a £2k pair of DCA.

I've only had good experiences as a result.

Thanks.
Great advice! This one gives me pause as l m using the above components with a Bryston amp and Proac speakers… Any thoughts you can offer on the possible harm they could do?
 
Great advice! This one gives me pause as l m using the above components with a Bryston amp and Proac speakers… Any thoughts you can offer on the possible harm they could do?
I was mainly alluding to L30 (V1) failures that took out some expensive headphones with voltage spike. I use a L30ii, but still don't put 100% faith in it not to go bad. For me with speakers it is mainly the potential for volume control failure, as I control volume using a pre and bypass volume control at the power amp. I'm just happy using the RME Dac FS there, I have confidence it will not just fail. I can't say the same about some other makes, either hardware failure, or bad firmware. Might just be me being over cautious, but on the RME threads, we don't have thousands of posts of negative issues and problems.
 
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