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Genelec W371A + The Ones : My quest for the Grail is over
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Pearljam5000
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So tomorrow we'll know if they'd finally fixed? Can't wait
This evening after work. I’m not expecting much because they said nothing was wrong with those amps but they replaced them in case there is an intermittent fault.
Let’s see. I’ll approach it with an open mind at least.
I have a feeling they are running me through a process. I hate it because really given the date of my video evidence I should be given an exchange.
However since that’s so cumbersome I’ll just play ball with their process.
I’ve already spent far more time getting them fixed than I’ve had time to use them. It took the whole of January to get here. I had only 2 good weeks of use of them.
maybe due to material limitation it's hard for them to arrange a full speaker in exchange, so in a geeky mind of the development team they just want to run you through the process to solve it without spending effort to replace the whole thing, where the geeks didn't even think of annoyance to customer. but yea, I think even with the process went well and it did fixed the W371 for you, they would at least need to offer some kind of money rebate no matter how little the amount is, it just don't make sense for a basically DOA product at that price and the user need to go through the diagnosis process.
Pekka Perämoottori
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Reported damages (one broken amplifier + one broken driver on arrival) indicate exposion to severe kinetic impact, after leaving Genelec factory.
Probably from dropping to floor, from significant altitude (1-2 meters). From cargo terminal loading bay, for example.
There has been many cargo terminals and many potential, negligent freight handlers along their long journey from Finland, and these weigh almost 100 kg per package.
Dropping them won´t necessarily leave clear marks to core packing material, only to transport pallet. Destroyed pallet can easily be replaced and package re-palleted, and get away with it.
Whole logistic chain should be executed for this, by strong suspicion, for destroying significant audio property.
Probably from dropping to floor, from significant altitude (1-2 meters). From cargo terminal loading bay, for example.
There has been many cargo terminals and many potential, negligent freight handlers along their long journey from Finland, and these weigh almost 100 kg per package.
Dropping them won´t necessarily leave clear marks to core packing material, only to transport pallet. Destroyed pallet can easily be replaced and package re-palleted, and get away with it.
Whole logistic chain should be executed for this, by strong suspicion, for destroying significant audio property.
I would rather take an extended warranty than money. Also a way to test and certify my product periodically at home.
Also this time i’m more inclined to post the videos if I see it again. This process has been ridiculously long.
Also what bothers me is that they completely ignored the left front woofer issue. They give me the impression of wanting to half solve this. I pointed out that one of the videos involves distortion from the left front as well. It may not be as bad but it’s there.
Anyway let’s see.
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Pallet looked good. But who knows?Reported damages (one broken amplifier + one broken driver on arrival) indicate exposion to severe kinetic impact, after leaving Genelec factory.
Probably from dropping to floor, from significant altitude (1-2 meters). From cargo terminal loading bay, for example.
There has been many cargo terminals and many potential, negligent freight handlers along their long journey from Finland, and these weigh almost 100 kg per package.
Dropping them won´t necessarily leave clear marks to core packing material, only to transport pallet. Destroyed pallet can easily be replaced and package re-palleted, and get away with it.
Whole logistic chain should be executed for this, by strong suspicion, for destroying significant audio property.
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Pekka Perämoottori
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Pallet is very easy to replace, to cover little freight-technical -fuck-ups...
Dropping them to floor, say, from 1 meter, won´t leave any marks their wooden crates. On delivery, you won´t notice any external damages. In package this heavy, it may have caused quite destructive kinetic force their contents, though.
Dropping them to floor, say, from 1 meter, won´t leave any marks their wooden crates. On delivery, you won´t notice any external damages. In package this heavy, it may have caused quite destructive kinetic force their contents, though.
Hard to say but there is quite a bit of padding in there. Fine it happens.
Now tonight I will see.
Edit: tomorrow. Rescheduled delivery for weather apparently. Fine.
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yea and it's not news worldwide to kick, ramp, throw the heavy delivery items from CCTV footages, kind of "understand" the reason for that "hey I am only pay minimal, and you ____insert your curse word here___ keep purchasing these heavy as F goods and ask us to handle with care, you come and try lift it man" good package can only take so much force and there's always a chance to mess up.
But finger crossed Genelec CS is good enough to sort it out for you, trouble free. as a consumer I do understand shippment damage, but the company should also have shippment insurance to cover the risk, not the customer. even in Hong Kong where we literallly have roads to our front door, my last order of a washing maching have broken like it's stepped over by an elephant and completely cracked, they just need to take it back and offer an replacement, not asking me to fix it myself
I’ll
Absolutely agree. However shipping companies won’t take responsibility unless there is external damage. Internal damage is more the shipper’s problem. Did they pack enough knowing that 2m drops happen?
Let’s see. Given this is not one driver but 2. Also other reports of it happening tells me there is more going on here.
Maybe the woofer is good at the factory but not properly braced?
The system just cannot play without distortion within its limits.
Absolutely agree. However shipping companies won’t take responsibility unless there is external damage. Internal damage is more the shipper’s problem. Did they pack enough knowing that 2m drops happen?
Let’s see. Given this is not one driver but 2. Also other reports of it happening tells me there is more going on here.
Maybe the woofer is good at the factory but not properly braced?
The system just cannot play without distortion within its limits.
So the amps came back. All measurements are dBC as Genelec GLM shows it.
Long story short: same old shit.
I even moved them closer and now I am exactly 4’ 10” from each or 1.473m.
Both front woofers distort. The left one is a little better again by 3dB or so. It hard to say for sure exactly how much because it starts pretty early and gets almost obnoxious near the clipping point.
For the right w371:
It starts around even 93dB with the single driver playing which of course goes up significantly when all drivers are playing.
For the left w371:
It starts around even 96-97dB with the single driver playing which of course goes up significantly when all drivers are playing
In fact it audibly distorts well below the limit on both. Now it does get covered up by the music in most cases but once you’ve heard it you will hear on more punchy bass songs.
Also the left woofer wants to clip 6dB before the right one. Maybe it’s some calibration thing? You can’t tell since it a black box system.
It clips on Coldplay “magic” at even -21.5 dB on the GLM volume scale.
It’s just funny that the left one is the one closer to a corner. The right one is open to the kitchen.
I think i’m ready to post the videos. Looking for a hosting provider to do so.
The rear woofers are solid and even shake the walls with no issues. Those are bulletproof. But these front woofers have issues.
I will also be running REW distortion tests as suggested. Probably next week.
Also 120dBC is the published spec. I get 109dBC at my 1.47m even on milder 70s songs like Olivia Newton John’s “magic”.
After that things clip. It is unpleasant though at that level.
Conversion to dBa really depend on the spectral content of music. Some songs sound painful at that level while others might convert to a significantly lower dBA level.
This is why some people keep repeating that certain levels are “painful” while I can say it depends on the song. These numbers are dBC and what we perceive is dBA.
Also one must consider wanting to sit at a distance where these don’t seem to be on top of you. What happens at 3m? or 4m?
Long story short: same old shit.
I even moved them closer and now I am exactly 4’ 10” from each or 1.473m.
Both front woofers distort. The left one is a little better again by 3dB or so. It hard to say for sure exactly how much because it starts pretty early and gets almost obnoxious near the clipping point.
For the right w371:
It starts around even 93dB with the single driver playing which of course goes up significantly when all drivers are playing.
For the left w371:
It starts around even 96-97dB with the single driver playing which of course goes up significantly when all drivers are playing
In fact it audibly distorts well below the limit on both. Now it does get covered up by the music in most cases but once you’ve heard it you will hear on more punchy bass songs.
Also the left woofer wants to clip 6dB before the right one. Maybe it’s some calibration thing? You can’t tell since it a black box system.
It clips on Coldplay “magic” at even -21.5 dB on the GLM volume scale.
It’s just funny that the left one is the one closer to a corner. The right one is open to the kitchen.
I think i’m ready to post the videos. Looking for a hosting provider to do so.
The rear woofers are solid and even shake the walls with no issues. Those are bulletproof. But these front woofers have issues.
I will also be running REW distortion tests as suggested. Probably next week.
Also 120dBC is the published spec. I get 109dBC at my 1.47m even on milder 70s songs like Olivia Newton John’s “magic”.
After that things clip. It is unpleasant though at that level.
Conversion to dBa really depend on the spectral content of music. Some songs sound painful at that level while others might convert to a significantly lower dBA level.
This is why some people keep repeating that certain levels are “painful” while I can say it depends on the song. These numbers are dBC and what we perceive is dBA.
Also one must consider wanting to sit at a distance where these don’t seem to be on top of you. What happens at 3m? or 4m?
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Files are ready. This is what some folks were too scared to see. I don’t blame them. After dropping $18k sometimes you just want to play like an ostrich.
Just solo your w371. Test control. Mute rear.
Play Coldplay “Magic”
It is audible even with volume control in GLM at -28dB.
Just solo your w371. Test control. Mute rear.
Play Coldplay “Magic”
It is audible even with volume control in GLM at -28dB.
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ernestcarl
Major Contributor
Have you checked the amount of boost (headroom) the filters are using for each channel? I thought this was something that could be viewed when using GLM.
Not when you have w371. It becomes a black box. I have attached a picture.
Anyway all that upper frequency nonsense is probably the sofa surface behind the mic. I’ll be playing with that over the next few weeks.
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For the front driver only issue I am wondering if the spec was for both woofer playing so only the one driver (presumbly the weaker one/ported vs sealed?) distort early is kind of expected (just BS wild guessing, but I would inclined to believe the speaker in whatever mode should play both woofers tgt and max spl need both woofer in sync?). But then the channel imbalance is the real issue IMO.
Yes I mean more than 3dB off? So these folks do any quality control? Are these tested at the factory? It doesn’t seem like it.
The spec for Genelec is one unit playing but for both woofers running.
So if I add the rear woofer it goes higher for sure. But to demonstrate the problem I could have left it on and reported the single unit dB levels. It will be higher than 93dB maybe 96dB? These numbers are low.
The rear woofer really kicks hard. That front woofer is really struggling.
This is all in complementary mode. All drive units are used in the range they can output the most. Imagine I try this in the controlled directivity mode where they sort of fight each other?
This is why I think the main driver of even that mode is the large diameter of the front woofer and if used to combat each other it isn’t really that much energy used to do so since it’s pretty directive already.
It seems to be the other reason they recommend complementary mode unless you have a specific issue that cannot be solved in that mode.
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Pearljam5000
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Damn
This is sad
What's your next step?
This is sad
What's your next step?
Could be the case, and given that it's a black box down there we have no idea of if this is specific to your units or as designed, you know the general max SPL stat didn't really have a definitive spec in most of the times (thought I am still disappointed Genelec isn't going on the conservative side of things). for the channel balance issue I do think they need to follow up, possibly with some specialist to your place, yes, the cost might be high for them, but in order to keep reputation for the 18k price tag and the issue persist after such a long customer feedback with tech dept, it likely will do more good than harm on their side, especially the price went well into the reputation damaging sector