Interesting. This is the first time I have heard that someone from Genelec recommends subwoofers to the woofer-system. Maybe they were referring to a multichannel system with LFE-channel and not normal a 2-channel system?
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Genelec W371A + The Ones : My quest for the Grail is over
- Thread starter Bernard 54
- Start date
Don’t think so the W371 isn’t a sub woofer.
Keith
Keith
No it's not. But in general Genelec does not recommend a subwoofer with the woofer-system for 2-channel systems.
This was Sound Distribution /HHB they are both Genelec distributor and retailer their showroom/studio in Wells Street, just off Oxford Street.
It was thoroughly enjoyable , they showed measurements of their own room using the W371a’s in their various configurations which was interesting.
Keith
It was thoroughly enjoyable , they showed measurements of their own room using the W371a’s in their various configurations which was interesting.
Keith
Nice that you enjoyed the system. I will put this picture from Genelecs website here, I think it has been posted before.
Adding a subwoofer is of course possible. Question is if it's worth the final low-end (below 25hz) if it sacrifices the bass response negatively. It might not get worse but there is a big risk that the subwoofer messes with the woofer towers.
Adding a subwoofer is of course possible. Question is if it's worth the final low-end (below 25hz) if it sacrifices the bass response negatively. It might not get worse but there is a big risk that the subwoofer messes with the woofer towers.
I could upload measurements from my system if it would be of value. I have them in .mdat (REW) but am not sure if this forum allows that file type? In terms of frequency response of the drivers - I attached here two pictures to demonstrate the difference between complementary mode (crossover 200hz to 8351b) vs continued directivity (crossover 180hz to 8351b). The .mdat contains a lot more details.
Attachments
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I didn't say that they did. When using EQ between two (or more) sources to reduce spatial variability the sources must be capable of playing the frequency being equalized for the summation to work. With low order crossovers that range could be quite wide even though one driver has begun to roll off. When you add delay there is another degree of freedom which can be used to cause the two sources to combine in the most even way throughout the room. If you have two subwoofers that have complete overlap all of the passband can be affected. When the main speaker rolls off at 60Hz or higher then the range of possible correction is less but still there in the range of usable overlap.
My comment that you responded to was in describing the complementary mode of the W371A. In that mode there is a steep crossover between the two drivers and almost no overlap. In the directivity modes where there has to be overlap for it to work there is scope to do something different.
Yet one of the largest studio monitor manufacturers spent an awful lot of money developing a speaker with the main USP of having controlled directivity to a low frequency. There is the modal and transition zones, it is in the transition zone where directivity can be most useful. There is some screenshots of it from a Genelec webinar earlier in the thread that shows the speaker cleaning up the 200 to 500Hz range of frequency response through reduced boundary interference.
Depending on the size you can zip the mdat and attach it. If there are too many responses in the file it can become too big to be attached but with a few you should be fine.
Sorry I couldnt do it. The file size is too big. If you are interested in the measurements, please dm me and we can find another way
songOVERsound
Active Member
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These are rather tall.. I suppose it may help to have the driver higher up in the air to allow for the vertical directivity/cardiod response? What kind of spacing is required from the front and side walls?
__egn
Member
I wonder how this setup will go against Dirac’s newly announced Active Room Treatment.
Got these set up today. The outstanding benefit has been the massive improvement in mid-Bass (as others have alluded to on this thread). This seems to have improved vocals clarity, reverb (as in conveying the reverb of the source environment) and instrument separation. It's a significant difference and improvement over my previous multisub arrangement (which was ruler-flat to 100Hz).
I think there is also a loudness benefit - for the same dB level, music sounds more detailed and weirdly louder without sounding strained.
I have played around with 3 modes - complementary, continuous directivity and lessening side reflections. I did so as the GRADE report indicated yellow zone for early reflections. I also wanted to see if there was any significant improvement in Bacch4Mac with these modes. I found that I preferred the complementary mode and this actually gave the better XTC level (9dB) compared to the other two modes, roughly 2dB better that with multi-sub or speakers-only setup.
I think there is also a loudness benefit - for the same dB level, music sounds more detailed and weirdly louder without sounding strained.
I have played around with 3 modes - complementary, continuous directivity and lessening side reflections. I did so as the GRADE report indicated yellow zone for early reflections. I also wanted to see if there was any significant improvement in Bacch4Mac with these modes. I found that I preferred the complementary mode and this actually gave the better XTC level (9dB) compared to the other two modes, roughly 2dB better that with multi-sub or speakers-only setup.
Tovarich007
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I guess you meant 2X8361 and not 8316 ?
Sebastiaan de Vries
Active Member
So you listen to a flat target curve? Impressive results!
Which of Genelec's modes are you using to get this result? I'm asking for science! I have a DIY version of this speaker, and I have spent approx 1 year guessing about what Genelec is and is not doing with the various modes. I would guess you are using the "Adaptive"? This result you are posting does look similar to the type of results I am getting.
I appreciate the insight into their system. It is encouraging to me because I had no idea how "perfect" a response curve they were trying to achieve.
It still doesn't definitively answer what technique they are using, but it makes me think I'm on the right track!
How did you configure your previous multiple subwoofer system to make it ruler flat? Was it by EQ, or time alignment/ delays?
I wonders what mode are you using the w371A?
The loudness benefit comes from the directivity and phase accuracy. Its crazy how much louder the same DB is perceived when those are in check. Enjoy man!
Using GLM