Genelec W371A + The Ones : My quest for the Grail is over

[Descartes]

I have a lot of respect for genelec and I think the ones are such incredible value. ….Reading that stuff on gearspace made me wonder if I were reading stereophile magazine.

Sad

 

[ferrellms]

Given that 100-300hz is the USP of this woofer system (not subwoofer) and people wanting to pair this with bigger mains like 8361a - it seems the pro manufacturers have caught the audiophile bug.

There is no reason this has to cost what it does except the Kii have shown that it sells. Now pro manufacturers can charge audiofool money. It happened in headphones and now it happening with this startup pro manufacturers.

I have a lot of respect for genelec and I think the ones are such incredible value. The subs are pricey but justifiable with the GLM integration. But this is hitting another level especially that you need a pair. Worse is reading how they would do better with 8361 than 8351 when they will be crossed over in such a way the built in woofers will barely have anything to do.

Then to claim that even still it matters and that they will be more “effortless” etc etc sounds like prosumer talk rather than professional talk. They deserve the money for their contribution to audio and I don’t blame them for following in the footsteps of Kii. Reading that stuff on gearspace made me wonder if I were reading stereophile magazine.

Given that 100-300hz is the USP of this woofer system (not subwoofer) and people wanting to pair this with bigger mains like 8361a - it seems the pro manufacturers have caught the audiophile bug.

There is no reason this has to cost what it does except the Kii have shown that it sells. Now pro manufacturers can charge audiofool money. It happened in headphones and now it happening with this startup pro manufacturers.

I have a lot of respect for genelec and I think the ones are such incredible value. The subs are pricey but justifiable with the GLM integration. But this is hitting another level especially that you need a pair. Worse is reading how they would do better with 8361 than 8351 when they will be crossed over in such a way the built in woofers will barely have anything to do.

Then to claim that even still it matters and that they will be more “effortless” etc etc sounds like prosumer talk rather than professional talk. They deserve the money for their contribution to audio and I don’t blame them for following in the footsteps of Kii. Reading that stuff on gearspace made me wonder if I were reading stereophile magazine

 

[ferrellms]

For decades, Genelec has been for pros who feel the need for the highest level of accuracy and are willing to pay top dollar for it. Is there any reason to believe they really pay any attention to audiophiles or what they buy? They have largely ignored audiophiles (they do have a small line of repackaged and rebranded of their 2-ways in consumer colors.) The aim of the W371 system, is, according to them, to replicate the monitoring accuracy of their big and expensive recording studio main monitors (often soffit-mounted to remove much of the room sound and in any case a room designed for sound quality) in less expensive rooms. And BTW, the SoundOnSound review was of 8351bs and a SINGLE W371 in a studio control room. The reviewer, a pro with a lot of experience, said he may not need to use the studio's big main monitors any more. So, maybe they have succeeded.

 

[srrxr71]

For decades, Genelec has been for pros who feel the need for the highest level of accuracy and are willing to pay top dollar for it. Is there any reason to believe they really pay much attention to audiophiles or what they buy? The aim of the w371 system, is, according to them, to replicate the monitoring accuracy of their recording studio main monitors (often soffit-mounted to remove much of the room sound and in any case designed for sound quality) in less expensive rooms. And BTW, the SoundOnSound review was of 8351bs and a SINGLE w371 in a studio control room. The reviewer, a pro with a lot of experience, said he may not need to use the studio's big main monitors any more.

Tell me how to to use a single one of these and I’ll have my checkbook ready. Can I lay it on the floor sideways? I saw the review and saw that they had 2 of these positioned behind the bridge.

I really hate to criticize Genelec as they are forming my end game system. I am beyond thankful they made the Ones. However you can see audiophiles buying these systems and already salivating at the prospect of “Genelec towers”. The game has changed and it’s right that they take advantage of the home market. When you download GLM the checkboxes ask you if your use of the system is for home use. They aren’t dumb and know the professional market is limited. The prosumer market is vast. Many D&D 8c are bought for this as well as Kii 3. For me point source was more important than cardioid bass.

That the W371 exists is not the problem as much as saying that the 8361 would work better then than the 8351 with the W371. Maybe if you needed the SPL most of us don’t. That’s a huge maybe considering the coaxial driver is the same in the two.

The sound on sound review also mentions that the feats of the W371 would mostly reveal themselves in untreated rooms very much unlike the well treated studio rooms which they claim these are designed for.


Also if they go up to 500Hz, you will see that they basically put them behind the bridge in that picture at metropolis studios. Would you put a driver that is handling up to 500hz behind a solid object? Does that make any sense? Maybe as the Ones’ woofers are slot loaded but they handle under 320Hz. Maybe they crossed it over below that? Does the built in woofer in the 8351 have anything to do at that point? Why would you need a 8361?


I guess they just have to be roughly somewhere near the mains and not exactly under them. A studio would rather soffit the mains. At $18k I’d rather get a contractor to do the same and even treat the room.

The price point here is so high that money would be better spent on an acoustician and soffit mounting IMHO.

If you need the looks of a tower system then you’d rather buy these. A pro room would have money spent on the room and a prosumer would just buy these because they may be averse to tearing up the room.


Besides I have decent response in GLM in my room that shows dips only around 100Hz. That’s why I ordered a 7360 instead. I’ll see where that takes me and order another if needed. Playing with the positions first. I really don’t want to deviate from GLM but if they don’t cater to multiple subwoofer calibration then I will have to consider rhythmik FM8 pair and some other calibration system.

Right now my left 8341 is reasonably flat and my right 8341 has that huge dip at about 110Hz. The environment is asymmetrical for each of them. Maybe I can position the sub to get rid of that, maybe not. My mid bass is not razor flat but it’s reasonable. Even after spending $18k on these it still may not be. I’d rather treat the room first or buy subs first. But going whole hog at $18k is not the first place to start. I’d probably still need to add subs.

After all this money spent GLM still will not optimize all of the above together. For example I have a boost due to the back wall between 40Hz and 50hz which GLM cuts on the left 8341. The right 8341 rolls off between 40-50hz. So I reduced the trim on the left monitor to compensate for that. I varied the center frequency to try to get left to fill the gap of the right shape-wise. I had to do it manually. When will this system automate that? That needs to happen before I go whole hog on this thing and spend $$$.

Honestly a lot of people here have spent so much on audio crap in their lives that even $18k isn’t that bad for an end game system because many have spent that accumulated amount on nonsense before. Insane amps, dacs, cables and compromised speakers. That too in real money not the funny money they are printing like crazy today. $18k in a few years might get you a happy meal.

However the expectations are higher in the age of DSP and instead of getting GLM to properly integrate ALL the subs and mains playing together it wants to optimize each playing individually. Where is the synergy?

We have to go 3rd party for solutions to that. Instead they have made it so you have to buy these for GLM to do new tricks. Fine if that’s the case but after all that they still don’t have a way that one sub or main can compensate for the positioning and output issues of the other. So i’m already wondering if I made the right choice in ordering the 7360. Because I may find that I would have to go 3rd party with FM8 and rhythmik subs anyways after all is said and done. It’s just that GLM is convenient, offered by the manufacturer and built into the mains so why not give it a chance. If it turns out I have to get a computer or MiniDSP to handle what GLM won’t then I will. A lot of us having been chasing the holy grail for decades. If it means learning how to custom DSP then so be it. If these can do it for $18k and bring out full synergy then that may be preferable but so far they don’t seem to go that far. They offer tools for fixing room issues but you still have to do the work manually. If you have to, then why just go fully manual DSP? The 3 modes sounds interesting but why won’t it just figure it all out itself? I’d still have to trial and error it and if so may as well do it right.

Of course there will always be trial and error even in the “perfect” system with regard to positioning and toe in etc. However when it comes to getting the flattest response at listening position given a set of main/sub positions it needs to be able to consider all of the available units playing together. That way we can add subs and woofer systems as needed with confidence. Using one unit’s positioning strength to counter another’s weakness so that the sum at the listening is optimal has to be engineered into GLM or it’s crazy to invest $18k + $6-8k (mains) + $5.3k (subs). Why subs? Because while the W371 is great at fixing mid bass issues they still have to be positioned near each main as they play localizable frequencies. For deep bass the optimal positions may be different. Hence needing subs if you have dips below 100Hz.

Ideally imho they didn’t need to go whole hog with this mid bass solution also handling deep bass. They could have restricted it to mid bass and lowered the cost and said that you would do well to get subs with it and position them for optimal response sub 100hz. These are neither here nor there. Offer me mid bass units with the bag of W371 tricks for roughly the cost of the monitors and that’s fine I’ll also get the subs with it all. Then make sure GLM will fully integrate all of them together. That is system I can get behind instead of this tower craze. Where did that come from? Kii? Wilson Audio? I don’t need towers. A professional room doesn’t have domestic limitations and my listening room won’t either. So why cater to that?

 

[Pearljam5000]

The aim of the W371 system, is, according to them, to replicate the monitoring accuracy of their big and expensive recording studio main monitors

If that's their purpose why not just get the bigger monitors like 1237/1238 instead
They would cost about the same

 

[srrxr71]

If that's their purpose why not just get the bigger monitors like 1237/1238 instead
They would cost about the same

And soffit them properly. That’s what a professional studio would do anyway.

 

[onion]

Tell me how to to use a single one of these and I’ll have my checkbook ready. Can I lay it on the floor sideways? I saw the review and saw that they had 2 of these positioned behind the bridge.

I really hate to criticize Genelec as they are forming my end game system. I am beyond thankful they made the Ones. However you can see audiophiles buying these systems and already salivating at the prospect of “Genelec towers”. The game has changed and it’s right that they take advantage of the home market. When you download GLM the checkboxes ask you if your use of the system is for home use. They aren’t dumb and know the professional market is limited. The prosumer market is vast. Many D&D 8c are bought for this as well as Kii 3. For me point source was more important than cardioid bass.

That the W371 exists is not the problem as much as saying that the 8361 would work better then than the 8351 with the W371. Maybe if you needed the SPL most of us don’t. That’s a huge maybe considering the coaxial driver is the same in the two.

The sound on sound review also mentions that the feats of the W371 would mostly reveal themselves in untreated rooms very much unlike the well treated studio rooms which they claim these are designed for.


Also if they go up to 500Hz, you will see that they basically put them behind the bridge in that picture at metropolis studios. Would you put a driver that is handling up to 500hz behind a solid object? Does that make any sense? Maybe as the Ones’ woofers are slot loaded but they handle under 320Hz. Maybe they crossed it over below that? Does the built in woofer in the 8351 have anything to do at that point? Why would you need a 8361?


I guess they just have to be roughly somewhere near the mains and not exactly under them. A studio would rather soffit the mains. At $18k I’d rather get a contractor to do the same and even treat the room.

The price point here is so high that money would be better spent on an acoustician and soffit mounting IMHO.

If you need the looks of a tower system then you’d rather buy these. A pro room would have money spent on the room and a prosumer would just buy these because they may be averse to tearing up the room.


Besides I have decent response in GLM in my room that shows dips only around 100Hz. That’s why I ordered a 7360 instead. I’ll see where that takes me and order another if needed. Playing with the positions first. I really don’t want to deviate from GLM but if they don’t cater to multiple subwoofer calibration then I will have to consider rhythmik FM8 pair and some other calibration system.

Right now my left 8341 is reasonably flat and my right 8341 has that huge dip at about 110Hz. The environment is asymmetrical for each of them. Maybe I can position the sub to get rid of that, maybe not. My mid bass is not razor flat but it’s reasonable. Even after spending $18k on these it still may not be. I’d rather treat the room first or buy subs first. But going whole hog at $18k is not the first place to start. I’d probably still need to add subs.

After all this money spent GLM still will not optimize all of the above together. For example I have a boost due to the back wall between 40Hz and 50hz which GLM cuts on the left 8341. The right 8341 rolls off between 40-50hz. So I reduced the trim on the left monitor to compensate for that. I varied the center frequency to try to get left to fill the gap of the right shape-wise. I had to do it manually. When will this system automate that? That needs to happen before I go whole hog on this thing and spend $$$.

Honestly a lot of people here have spent so much on audio crap in their lives that even $18k isn’t that bad for an end game system because many have spent that accumulated amount on nonsense before. Insane amps, dacs, cables and compromised speakers. That too in real money not the funny money they are printing like crazy today. $18k in a few years might get you a happy meal.

However the expectations are higher in the age of DSP and instead of getting GLM to properly integrate ALL the subs and mains playing together it wants to optimize each playing individually. Where is the synergy?

We have to go 3rd party for solutions to that. Instead they have made it so you have to buy these for GLM to do new tricks. Fine if that’s the case but after all that they still don’t have a way that one sub or main can compensate for the positioning and output issues of the other. So i’m already wondering if I made the right choice in ordering the 7360. Because I may find that I would have to go 3rd party with FM8 and rhythmik subs anyways after all is said and done. It’s just that GLM is convenient, offered by the manufacturer and built into the mains so why not give it a chance. If it turns out I have to get a computer or MiniDSP to handle what GLM won’t then I will. A lot of us having been chasing the holy grail for decades. If it means learning how to custom DSP then so be it. If these can do it for $18k and bring out full synergy then that may be preferable but so far they don’t seem to go that far. They offer tools for fixing room issues but you still have to do the work manually. If you have to, then why just go fully manual DSP? The 3 modes sounds interesting but why won’t it just figure it all out itself? I’d still have to trial and error it and if so may as well do it right.

Of course there will always be trial and error even in the “perfect” system with regard to positioning and toe in etc. However when it comes to getting the flattest response at listening position given a set of main/sub positions it needs to be able to consider all of the available units playing together. That way we can add subs and woofer systems as needed with confidence. Using one unit’s positioning strength to counter another’s weakness so that the sum at the listening is optimal has to be engineered into GLM or it’s crazy to invest $18k + $6-8k (mains) + $5.3k (subs). Why subs? Because while the W371 is great at fixing mid bass issues they still have to be positioned near each main as they play localizable frequencies. For deep bass the optimal positions may be different. Hence needing subs if you have dips below 100Hz.

Ideally imho they didn’t need to go whole hog with this mid bass solution also handling deep bass. They could have restricted it to mid bass and lowered the cost and said that you would do well to get subs with it and position them for optimal response sub 100hz. These are neither here nor there. Offer me mid bass units with the bag of W371 tricks for roughly the cost of the monitors and that’s fine I’ll also get the subs with it all. Then make sure GLM will fully integrate all of them together. That is system I can get behind instead of this tower craze. Where did that come from? Kii? Wilson Audio? I don’t need towers. A professional room doesn’t have domestic limitations and my listening room won’t either. So why cater to that?

For my 'endgame' system using W371, I'm more interested in the 'reduced reflections' and 'continued directivity' modes than the 'neutral LF response' mode as I'm more interested in improving the 3d imaging of the system in my room (which is well treated). I agree the price is high, but I think the W371+Ones system can handle mid-bass issues in three-ways that are qualitatively different to each other. If it were simply offering a neutral LF response solution alone, then yeah it would be more overpriced than it actually is.

 

[ferrellms]

Tell me how to to use a single one of these and I’ll have my checkbook ready. Can I lay it on the floor sideways? I saw the review and saw that they had 2 of these positioned behind the bridge.

I really hate to criticize Genelec as they are forming my end game system. I am beyond thankful they made the Ones. However you can see audiophiles buying these systems and already salivating at the prospect of “Genelec towers”. The game has changed and it’s right that they take advantage of the home market. When you download GLM the checkboxes ask you if your use of the system is for home use. They aren’t dumb and know the professional market is limited. The prosumer market is vast. Many D&D 8c are bought for this as well as Kii 3. For me point source was more important than cardioid bass.

That the W371 exists is not the problem as much as saying that the 8361 would work better then than the 8351 with the W371. Maybe if you needed the SPL most of us don’t. That’s a huge maybe considering the coaxial driver is the same in the two.

The sound on sound review also mentions that the feats of the W371 would mostly reveal themselves in untreated rooms very much unlike the well treated studio rooms which they claim these are designed for.


Also if they go up to 500Hz, you will see that they basically put them behind the bridge in that picture at metropolis studios. Would you put a driver that is handling up to 500hz behind a solid object? Does that make any sense? Maybe as the Ones’ woofers are slot loaded but they handle under 320Hz. Maybe they crossed it over below that? Does the built in woofer in the 8351 have anything to do at that point? Why would you need a 8361?


I guess they just have to be roughly somewhere near the mains and not exactly under them. A studio would rather soffit the mains. At $18k I’d rather get a contractor to do the same and even treat the room.

The price point here is so high that money would be better spent on an acoustician and soffit mounting IMHO.

If you need the looks of a tower system then you’d rather buy these. A pro room would have money spent on the room and a prosumer would just buy these because they may be averse to tearing up the room.


Besides I have decent response in GLM in my room that shows dips only around 100Hz. That’s why I ordered a 7360 instead. I’ll see where that takes me and order another if needed. Playing with the positions first. I really don’t want to deviate from GLM but if they don’t cater to multiple subwoofer calibration then I will have to consider rhythmik FM8 pair and some other calibration system.

Right now my left 8341 is reasonably flat and my right 8341 has that huge dip at about 110Hz. The environment is asymmetrical for each of them. Maybe I can position the sub to get rid of that, maybe not. My mid bass is not razor flat but it’s reasonable. Even after spending $18k on these it still may not be. I’d rather treat the room first or buy subs first. But going whole hog at $18k is not the first place to start. I’d probably still need to add subs.

After all this money spent GLM still will not optimize all of the above together. For example I have a boost due to the back wall between 40Hz and 50hz which GLM cuts on the left 8341. The right 8341 rolls off between 40-50hz. So I reduced the trim on the left monitor to compensate for that. I varied the center frequency to try to get left to fill the gap of the right shape-wise. I had to do it manually. When will this system automate that? That needs to happen before I go whole hog on this thing and spend $$$.

Honestly a lot of people here have spent so much on audio crap in their lives that even $18k isn’t that bad for an end game system because many have spent that accumulated amount on nonsense before. Insane amps, dacs, cables and compromised speakers. That too in real money not the funny money they are printing like crazy today. $18k in a few years might get you a happy meal.

However the expectations are higher in the age of DSP and instead of getting GLM to properly integrate ALL the subs and mains playing together it wants to optimize each playing individually. Where is the synergy?

We have to go 3rd party for solutions to that. Instead they have made it so you have to buy these for GLM to do new tricks. Fine if that’s the case but after all that they still don’t have a way that one sub or main can compensate for the positioning and output issues of the other. So i’m already wondering if I made the right choice in ordering the 7360. Because I may find that I would have to go 3rd party with FM8 and rhythmik subs anyways after all is said and done. It’s just that GLM is convenient, offered by the manufacturer and built into the mains so why not give it a chance. If it turns out I have to get a computer or MiniDSP to handle what GLM won’t then I will. A lot of us having been chasing the holy grail for decades. If it means learning how to custom DSP then so be it. If these can do it for $18k and bring out full synergy then that may be preferable but so far they don’t seem to go that far. They offer tools for fixing room issues but you still have to do the work manually. If you have to, then why just go fully manual DSP? The 3 modes sounds interesting but why won’t it just figure it all out itself? I’d still have to trial and error it and if so may as well do it right.

Of course there will always be trial and error even in the “perfect” system with regard to positioning and toe in etc. However when it comes to getting the flattest response at listening position given a set of main/sub positions it needs to be able to consider all of the available units playing together. That way we can add subs and woofer systems as needed with confidence. Using one unit’s positioning strength to counter another’s weakness so that the sum at the listening is optimal has to be engineered into GLM or it’s crazy to invest $18k + $6-8k (mains) + $5.3k (subs). Why subs? Because while the W371 is great at fixing mid bass issues they still have to be positioned near each main as they play localizable frequencies. For deep bass the optimal positions may be different. Hence needing subs if you have dips below 100Hz.

Ideally imho they didn’t need to go whole hog with this mid bass solution also handling deep bass. They could have restricted it to mid bass and lowered the cost and said that you would do well to get subs with it and position them for optimal response sub 100hz. These are neither here nor there. Offer me mid bass units with the bag of W371 tricks for roughly the cost of the monitors and that’s fine I’ll also get the subs with it all. Then make sure GLM will fully integrate all of them together. That is system I can get behind instead of this tower craze. Where did that come from? Kii? Wilson Audio? I don’t need towers. A professional room doesn’t have domestic limitations and my listening room won’t either. So why cater to that?

Oops - maybe I was wrong about the single subwoofer - I'll have to look at the review again... Of course, Genelec will sell these to anyone (but you will have to get an appointment at a pro music dealer to hear them), but the studio market is where the money is for them now. There are a LOT of pro studios and now home studios are becoming huge as well. Every bungalow in LA has one. (My modest home studio is how I discovered powered monitors and promptly ditched my B&Ws). If they wanted they audiophile market they would spend a little more on styling, which is where most of the cost and "value" of high-end stuff is. They won't look good in a luxurious living room, IMHO.

 

[lherrm]

If that's their purpose why not just get the bigger monitors like 1237/1238 instead
They would cost about the same

Because space and ability/will to soffit-mount might be a premium one can't afford : living room, home studio, ...
To achieve the performance (or close) of (huge) mains with a much smaller, easier to position package is a value in itself.
If you don't need the SPL, I don't know if the 123x mains have an advantage over W371A+83X1.
From Genelec' charts, FR and directivity are not as good. It doesn't mean it should sound worse.
And talking about price, the main monitor visible in the SoundOnSound review is a 1234A, not 1237/8A.
I can't find reliable price but this source says it is about 18k$. Each.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Because space and ability/will to soffit-mount might be a premium one can't afford : living room, home studio, ...
To achieve the performance (or close) of (huge) mains with a much smaller, easier to position package is a value in itself.
If you don't need the SPL, I don't know if the 123x mains have an advantage over W371A+83X1.
From Genelec' charts, FR and directivity are not as good. It doesn't mean it should sound worse.
And talking about price, the main monitor visible in the SoundOnSound review is a 1234A, not 1237/8A.
I can't find reliable price but this source says it is about 18k$. Each.

In my country 1237 and 8361 cost the same, so it's an interesting dilemma.
Do you have to soffit mount the 1237 to make it sound good though?

 

[lherrm]

In my country 1237 and 8361 cost the same, so it's an interesting dilemma.
Do you have to soffit mount the 1237 to make it sound good though?

Do you have to to make it sound good ? Certainly not.
Would it sound better ? Probably.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Do you have to to make it sound good ? Certainly not.
Would it sound better ? Probably.

A little bit of proportions

 

[ferrellms]

In my country 1237 and 8361 cost the same, so it's an interesting dilemma.
Do you have to soffit mount the 1237 to make it sound good though?

The big ones are normally installed in the walls or soffit. The idea is to remove the wall behind them from the sound. The W371 does this via various sound cancellation techniques and ought to sound less colored than in-the-room big monitors.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The big ones are normally installed in the walls or soffit. The idea is to remove the wall behind them from the sound. The W371 does this via various sound cancellation techniques and ought to sound less colored than in-the-room big monitors.

This guy uses them as regular hifi speakers

 

[FrantzM]

Tell me how to to use a single one of these and I’ll have my checkbook ready. Can I lay it on the floor sideways? I saw the review and saw that they had 2 of these positioned behind the bridge.

I really hate to criticize Genelec as they are forming my end game system. I am beyond thankful they made the Ones. However you can see audiophiles buying these systems and already salivating at the prospect of “Genelec towers”. The game has changed and it’s right that they take advantage of the home market. When you download GLM the checkboxes ask you if your use of the system is for home use. They aren’t dumb and know the professional market is limited. The prosumer market is vast. Many D&D 8c are bought for this as well as Kii 3. For me point source was more important than cardioid bass.

That the W371 exists is not the problem as much as saying that the 8361 would work better then than the 8351 with the W371. Maybe if you needed the SPL most of us don’t. That’s a huge maybe considering the coaxial driver is the same in the two.

The sound on sound review also mentions that the feats of the W371 would mostly reveal themselves in untreated rooms very much unlike the well treated studio rooms which they claim these are designed for.


Also if they go up to 500Hz, you will see that they basically put them behind the bridge in that picture at metropolis studios. Would you put a driver that is handling up to 500hz behind a solid object? Does that make any sense? Maybe as the Ones’ woofers are slot loaded but they handle under 320Hz. Maybe they crossed it over below that? Does the built in woofer in the 8351 have anything to do at that point? Why would you need a 8361?


I guess they just have to be roughly somewhere near the mains and not exactly under them. A studio would rather soffit the mains. At $18k I’d rather get a contractor to do the same and even treat the room.

The price point here is so high that money would be better spent on an acoustician and soffit mounting IMHO.

If you need the looks of a tower system then you’d rather buy these. A pro room would have money spent on the room and a prosumer would just buy these because they may be averse to tearing up the room.


Besides I have decent response in GLM in my room that shows dips only around 100Hz. That’s why I ordered a 7360 instead. I’ll see where that takes me and order another if needed. Playing with the positions first. I really don’t want to deviate from GLM but if they don’t cater to multiple subwoofer calibration then I will have to consider rhythmik FM8 pair and some other calibration system.

Right now my left 8341 is reasonably flat and my right 8341 has that huge dip at about 110Hz. The environment is asymmetrical for each of them. Maybe I can position the sub to get rid of that, maybe not. My mid bass is not razor flat but it’s reasonable. Even after spending $18k on these it still may not be. I’d rather treat the room first or buy subs first. But going whole hog at $18k is not the first place to start. I’d probably still need to add subs.

After all this money spent GLM still will not optimize all of the above together. For example I have a boost due to the back wall between 40Hz and 50hz which GLM cuts on the left 8341. The right 8341 rolls off between 40-50hz. So I reduced the trim on the left monitor to compensate for that. I varied the center frequency to try to get left to fill the gap of the right shape-wise. I had to do it manually. When will this system automate that? That needs to happen before I go whole hog on this thing and spend $$$.

Honestly a lot of people here have spent so much on audio crap in their lives that even $18k isn’t that bad for an end game system because many have spent that accumulated amount on nonsense before. Insane amps, dacs, cables and compromised speakers. That too in real money not the funny money they are printing like crazy today. $18k in a few years might get you a happy meal.

However the expectations are higher in the age of DSP and instead of getting GLM to properly integrate ALL the subs and mains playing together it wants to optimize each playing individually. Where is the synergy?

We have to go 3rd party for solutions to that. Instead they have made it so you have to buy these for GLM to do new tricks. Fine if that’s the case but after all that they still don’t have a way that one sub or main can compensate for the positioning and output issues of the other. So i’m already wondering if I made the right choice in ordering the 7360. Because I may find that I would have to go 3rd party with FM8 and rhythmik subs anyways after all is said and done. It’s just that GLM is convenient, offered by the manufacturer and built into the mains so why not give it a chance. If it turns out I have to get a computer or MiniDSP to handle what GLM won’t then I will. A lot of us having been chasing the holy grail for decades. If it means learning how to custom DSP then so be it. If these can do it for $18k and bring out full synergy then that may be preferable but so far they don’t seem to go that far. They offer tools for fixing room issues but you still have to do the work manually. If you have to, then why just go fully manual DSP? The 3 modes sounds interesting but why won’t it just figure it all out itself? I’d still have to trial and error it and if so may as well do it right.

Of course there will always be trial and error even in the “perfect” system with regard to positioning and toe in etc. However when it comes to getting the flattest response at listening position given a set of main/sub positions it needs to be able to consider all of the available units playing together. That way we can add subs and woofer systems as needed with confidence. Using one unit’s positioning strength to counter another’s weakness so that the sum at the listening is optimal has to be engineered into GLM or it’s crazy to invest $18k + $6-8k (mains) + $5.3k (subs). Why subs? Because while the W371 is great at fixing mid bass issues they still have to be positioned near each main as they play localizable frequencies. For deep bass the optimal positions may be different. Hence needing subs if you have dips below 100Hz.

Ideally imho they didn’t need to go whole hog with this mid bass solution also handling deep bass. They could have restricted it to mid bass and lowered the cost and said that you would do well to get subs with it and position them for optimal response sub 100hz. These are neither here nor there. Offer me mid bass units with the bag of W371 tricks for roughly the cost of the monitors and that’s fine I’ll also get the subs with it all. Then make sure GLM will fully integrate all of them together. That is system I can get behind instead of this tower craze. Where did that come from? Kii? Wilson Audio? I don’t need towers. A professional room doesn’t have domestic limitations and my listening room won’t either. So why cater to that?

Excellent post. Valid criticisms. I hope Genelec is reading/listening.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Excellent post. Valid criticisms. I hope Genelec is reading/listening.

You can't really criticize them for anything because they make pro audio equipment for studios not for home hi fi use.

 

[FrantzM]

You can't really criticize them for anything because they make pro audio equipment for studios not for home hi fi use.

 

[srrxr71]

For my 'endgame' system using W371, I'm more interested in the 'reduced reflections' and 'continued directivity' modes than the 'neutral LF response' mode as I'm more interested in improving the 3d imaging of the system in my room (which is well treated). I agree the price is high, but I think the W371+Ones system can handle mid-bass issues in three-ways that are qualitatively different to each other. If it were simply offering a neutral LF response solution alone, then yeah it would be more overpriced than it actually is.

I’m glad you have it and it’s working for you. Do you have any graphs of how it has helped your listening position FR? I’m curious. Which mode do you use it in? Do you like to switch modes or have you settled on a mode which works best for your room?

 

[srrxr71]

Oops - maybe I was wrong about the single subwoofer - I'll have to look at the review again... Of course, Genelec will sell these to anyone (but you will have to get an appointment at a pro music dealer to hear them), but the studio market is where the money is for them now. There are a LOT of pro studios and now home studios are becoming huge as well. Every bungalow in LA has one. (My modest home studio is how I discovered powered monitors and promptly ditched my B&Ws). If they wanted they audiophile market they would spend a little more on styling, which is where most of the cost and "value" of high-end stuff is. They won't look good in a luxurious living room, IMHO.

A lot of us have mancaves in which we put this kind of equipment and I could pretend it’s a home studio as well and that i’m a professional. After all I have the equipment cred.

If you do have a home studio and a dedicated room for it then why not properly soffit and treat the room? Certainly costs less than $18k even in high labor cost countries. The kits for the ones are about $500 each.

 

[srrxr71]

In my country 1237 and 8361 cost the same, so it's an interesting dilemma.
Do you have to soffit mount the 1237 to make it sound good though?

In my understanding which is admittedly limited. The SBIR problem is “solved” with soffit mounting. You don’t have to. However you would do very well to do so.

However even the 83x1 series has soffit mounting kits. If this were my final home for 10+ years I would get even my 8341 soffit mounted (although I wonder about toe in adjustment).

It’s not a “must” for either. But if you can do it why not? It solves the same problem that the W371 solves for far less than $18k and probably actually does a much better job at it.