Genelec speakers vs passive - SINAD

[bumelant]

I've been trying to get my head around the topic of Genelec speakers vs good passive setup. I'm starting this thread in hopes of someone getting things clarified.

My reasoning around dynamic vs passive speakers (that is probably very uniformed) is the following:

1. Granted you have a high quality source, add a high quality preamp/amplifier and a high quality passive speaker, your SINAD would be better than (any of available) dynamic speakers. In other words (speaker issues, distortion, etc. aside) - a setup of Topping 90 series DAC/pre + Hypex NC500 + KEF Reference 1 would have lower noise level and lower distortion that Genelec 8351 or any other model really.
2. This would be (if this reasoning is correct) caused by Genelec putting a lot of necessarily cheap amplifiers and
3. In dynamic DSP corrected speakers like Genelec 8351 or 8030 you cannot avoid A/D + D/A converters for their DSP to work (and be worthy of Digital in DSP), and those components need to be even cheaper because there is plenty of them in each speaker.
4. All this cannot obviously compare when it comes to performance, to Topping + Hypex setup described in point 1 in terms of SINAD.
5. Now, there's obviously the speaker design which according to many is crucial in this equation as speaker induced distortion much more severe. KEF Reference 1, while being a good speaker, will have a lot of issues that can be fixed in DSP.
6. Thus some people, who claim speaker issues matter much more than electronics issues, will say the resulting sound from Genelec would be better anyway
7. Some others will claim the contrary.

I do currently listen to Topping + Genelec combo, it sounds good. Would it be better with digital input (why convert to analog and again to digital in speaker anyway?).

There is very interesting article about dynamics of Genelec speakers on their support website: https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...tal-audio-sources-and-optimize-dynamic-range-

I've tried to implement that by setting -6 dB output on Topping A90 plus setting additional -6 dB in DAC as a limit. But how do I interpret claims like "Genelec products have a dynamic range capability that is larger than the dynamic range available from any DA converter today", "The dynamic rangeof this speaker becomes a comfortable 130 dB."? Does this mean Genelec electronics issues are non-exiting? Does this mean analog preamp is the recommended way, even better than digital?

Those are all open questions and thoughts that I would be happy someone knowledgable could help me get straight (or confirm).

 

[andreasmaaan]

1. Granted you have a high quality source, add a high quality preamp/amplifier and a high quality passive speaker, your SINAD would be better than (any of available) dynamic speakers. In other words (speaker issues, distortion, etc. aside) - a setup of Topping 90 series DAC/pre + Hypex NC500 + KEF Reference 1 would have lower noise level and lower distortion that Genelec 8351 or any other model really.

In most cases, if we're talking about electronics only, yes, active speakers don't tend to have SOTA components. There a few exceptions, though, e.g. Kii Three which uses ADCs/DACs with SINAD >100dB, and Hypex Ncore amps.

2. This would be (if this reasoning is correct) caused by Genelec putting a lot of necessarily cheap amplifiers

Yes and no. Sure, the amps in Genelec speakers have lower SINAD than the best amps on the market, but once you include distortion caused by the transducers will render any amp distortion more or less negligible in any whole-system calculation of SINAD.

3. In dynamic DSP corrected speakers like Genelec 8351 or 8030 you cannot avoid A/D + D/A converters for their DSP to work (and be worthy of Digital in DSP), and those components need to be even cheaper because there is plenty of them in each speaker.

It depends on the speaker. Many active speakers also accept digital input (typically AES/EBU via XLR), which avoids the additional DA/AD conversion.

4. All this cannot obviously compare when it comes to performance, to Topping + Hypex setup described in point 1 in terms of SINAD.

See above

5. Now, there's obviously the speaker design which according to many is crucial in this equation as speaker induced distortion much more severe. KEF Reference 1, while being a good speaker, will have a lot of issues that can be fixed in DSP.

Not really. Based on measurements I've seen of the KEF Reference range, they exhibit excellent directional behaviour and suffer from no other anomalies that DSP could not correct (to the extent that DSP can correct any speaker).

I do currently listen to Topping + Genelec combo, it sounds good. Would it be better with digital input (why convert to analog and again to digital in speaker anyway?).

Probably not. AD and DA conversion these days is generally transparent unless something goes wrong (e.g. a faulty device is in the chain or gain-staging is not done correctly).

I've tried to implement that by setting -6 dB output on Topping A90. But how do I interpret claims like "Genelec products have a dynamic range capability that is larger than the dynamic range available from any DA converter today", "The dynamic rangeof this speaker becomes a comfortable 130 dB."?

I'm afraid I don't have time to read the article. The claim seems far-fetched on first blush, but who knows what caveats they include in the full text.

Hope all of the above helps (-: