Genelec S360 Review (Studio Monitor)

[F1308]

Then you are doing it completely wrong. Larger/expensiver doesn't translate to *better*. Large speakers do not have better sound quality relative to smaller speakers, in fact larger speakers have more reasons to have directivity problems than relatively smaller speakers.

Both Genelec 8361 and S360 are not full range speakers. 8361 extends flat down to 36hz, its port tuning is 40hz. 18-36hz is equal to one octave. Ultimately you'll need a subwoofer with both. And they are designed to be used with a subwoofer as well. Genelec S360 is designed to be paired with 7382 subwoofer which is a gigantic subwoofer and it is a complete overkill for a 15 sqm2 room. Genelec 8361 is designed to be used with W371.

Considering all these, the best speakers you can have in your room are: D&D 8C, Kii Three or Genelec 8341 + W371 combo. I think Genelec 8341 + W371 is better than both of other speakers I mentioned.

And most of us don't take into account the length of the room. If talking 15 m2, and guessing 3x5 then lowest bass attainable at 21Celsius is 34.38 Hz. 27 Celsius means 34.73 Hz.

Yes, considering not the whole but just half of the length of the largest wave as valid, and regardless of the astounding equipment to be used, the bass is nevertheless restricted to 340.294*(((T+273.15)/288.15)^0.5)/2/L, being T temperature in Celsius and L the length in meters of the room the loudspeakers are pointed to, isn't it ?
Also, temperature is a factor.
The minimum detected variation in pitch is 5 cents, known as Just Noticeable Difference in Pitch.
A semitone, equal temperament, has 100 cents.
Set A4, MIDI #69, to 440 Hz and the lowest key (A0, MIDI #21) is 27.5 Hz, 88-key keyboard piano.
At this frequency a 5 cents change means
5/1200*log(X/27.5) going down, X being 27.42069 and 5/1200*log(27.5/X) going up, X being 27.57954. A mean change of say 0.08 will do.
Yes, we will detect 8/100 of an Hertz !!!!
If the length of the room is 6.2 meters to grant 27.5 Hz, any 2 degrees of temperature variation ( 15-17-19-21-23-25-27 ) will affect the lower bass in a range human beings will detect it, 0.5656 Hz in pitch change from 15 C to 27 C.

Same computing for bass at 16 Hz, but calling for a room offering 11 meters, equates 5 cents to a mere 5/100 Hertz, the temperature change remaining at 2 C to detect the changes, 0.3188 Hz variation in pitch this time, also going 15 C to 27 C.

At last, peace of mind, I understand why my equipment was offering "more body" in winter at 15 C than in summer, at 27 C.

Then comes relative humidity...

Humidity, Concert Hall Sound & Spectral Tilt

www.stereophile.com

 

[kipman725]

I feel the value is not very good on these speakers. While not as refined as the Genlec the RCF NX 985-A are cheaper at £1700 each. The NX 985-A is; larger, 3 way and goes much louder they are also made of plywood not MDF.

 

[Absolute]

Compression drivers makes sense when you need output at longer distances in a large or highly treated room or when you need a large bandwith from a single driver. In most cases this doesn't apply to normal usage.

I would imagine that some of the output capability people seem to enjoy vs normal tweeters could possibly be explained by the usually larger midrange driver in a compression driver design vs normal speaker design, but as always I'm guessing.

I love compression drivers and I love a big midrange driver. Or do I actually just love wider baffles?

 

[ta240]

In the looks department, the S360 is now housed in a more home friendly enclosure and as such, should find more buyers. Many have walked away from Genelecs due to their somewhat polarizing look. Now you have a great alternative in the form of S360A.

Maybe they look better in person. In the pictures it reminds me of some type of office equipment from 1990.

 

[Curvature]

I feel the value is not very good on these speakers. While not as refined as the Genlec the RCF NX 985-A are cheaper at £1700 each. The NX 985-A is; larger, 3 way and goes much louder they are also made of plywood not MDF.

The directivity of the NX 985A is terrible and it is a PA speaker. Hard to make any clear comparison.

 

[DanielT]

In that case it is still one of the best choices, as while you may not need its SPL reserves, you need quite some directivity at 3 meters for high quality listening/monitoring where the direct sound percentage is sufficient in relation to the reflected sound, as it can be seen also in the critical distance in the chart:

Aha, well 3 meters, 10 ft is still a decent distance. Great info you pasted from Genelec.

 

[kipman725]

The directivity of the NX 985A is terrible and it is a PA speaker. Hard to make any clear comparison.

Considering the contents of the box the cost of the NX 985A should be greater than the S360. The drivers are of comparable quality, you get more of them, a larger box made of more expensive material with the NX 985A and more powerful amplification.

 

[Michel Forbes]

I feel the value is not very good on these speakers. While not as refined as the Genlec the RCF NX 985-A are cheaper at £1700 each. The NX 985-A is; larger, 3 way and goes much louder they are also made of plywood not MDF.

Don't forget that those type of monitors are used in multi-channel set-up.
The Genelec shines when used in ambiophonic set-up.
Just respect the correct geometry for speaker placement and bang...no bad surprises.

 

[Curvature]

Considering the contents of the box the cost of the NX 985A should be greater than the S360. The drivers are of comparable quality, you get more of them, a larger box made of more expensive material with the NX 985A and more powerful amplification.

You are making assumptions about parts quality which are likely untrue (the 10" driver is entirely custom designed in house by Genelec) while ignoring the cost of research, quality control and design. The measurements for the NX 985A are low resolution and will likely show many more problems if measured on a Klippel or comparable anechoic setup. In general PA speakers tend to have looser tolerances, many resonances and high self noise.

 

[nagster]

that cone midrange driver has been developed by Genelec in the late 80's. there wasn't such off the shelf solution available in the market(IIRC still there isn't) they developed it from ground up.

They shared most of the design decisions they took during the development of the driver in AES article called as ''DESIGN OF A HIGH POWER ACTIVE CONTROL ROOM MONITOR''.

It is publicly available online: https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn055a4v/5GGcYUioBavga6RvkSrbNu/a876192f8a222ac8c0639689924a6b8a/Design_of_High_Power_Active_Control_Room_Monitor.pdf

View attachment 222091TAD 4001

thanks for the picture.
I took a picture of the TD-4001 at a similar angle, but it doesn't look the same to me...

 

[PeteL]

Considering the contents of the box the cost of the NX 985A should be greater than the S360. The drivers are of comparable quality, you get more of them, a larger box made of more expensive material with the NX 985A and more powerful amplification.

I purchase speakers based on performance, not on part count or by the pound.

 

[RobL]

thanks for the picture.
I took a picture of the TD-4001 at a similar angle, but it doesn't look the same to me...View attachment 222140

Blockader’s pic looks more like TAD 2001.

 

[Sancus]

Considering the contents of the box the cost of the NX 985A should be greater than the S360. The drivers are of comparable quality, you get more of them, a larger box made of more expensive material with the NX 985A and more powerful amplification.

The most expensive part of any speaker(honestly this applies to all products) is the engineering and quality of assembly, not the parts. If you base your purchases on parts value you're usually going to buy things with poor engineering, assembly, quality control or all 3. Which are the worst parts to skimp on, IMO. There's no free lunch.

 

[Tangband]

And most of us don't take into account the length of the room. If talking 15 m2, and guessing 3x5 then lowest bass attainable at 21Celsius is 34.38 Hz. 27 Celsius means 34.73 Hz.

Yes, considering not the whole but just half of the length of the largest wave as valid, and regardless of the astounding equipment to be used, the bass is nevertheless restricted to 340.294*(((T+273.15)/288.15)^0.5)/2/L, being T temperature in Celsius and L the length in meters of the room the loudspeakers are pointed to, isn't it ?
Also, temperature is a factor.
The minimum detected variation in pitch is 5 cents, known as Just Noticeable Difference in Pitch.
A semitone, equal temperament, has 100 cents.
Set A4, MIDI #69, to 440 Hz and the lowest key (A0, MIDI #21) is 27.5 Hz, 88-key keyboard piano.
At this frequency a 5 cents change means
5/1200*log(X/27.5) going down, X being 27.42069 and 5/1200*log(27.5/X) going up, X being 27.57954. A mean change of say 0.08 will do.
Yes, we will detect 8/100 of an Hertz !!!!
If the length of the room is 6.2 meters to grant 27.5 Hz, any 2 degrees of temperature variation ( 15-17-19-21-23-25-27 ) will affect the lower bass in a range human beings will detect it, 0.5656 Hz in pitch change from 15 C to 27 C.

Same computing for bass at 16 Hz, but calling for a room offering 11 meters, equates 5 cents to a mere 5/100 Hertz, the temperature change remaining at 2 C to detect the changes, 0.3188 Hz variation in pitch this time, also going 15 C to 27 C.

At last, peace of mind, I understand why my equipment was offering "more body" in winter at 15 C than in summer, at 27 C.

Then comes relative humidity...

Humidity, Concert Hall Sound & Spectral Tilt

www.stereophile.com

My bass response in my room dies below about 28 Hz because of the dimensions of the room . My lowest room resonanse is about 31 Hz, were I have a big peak. Below 28 Hz I can anyway feel the DIY subwoofers doing some sound pressure in the room.

But the fact is that if the room is to small , it might be a waste of money to get subwoofers flat to 20 Hz ,- so good point.
In a room smaller than about 6*4 meters its probably overkill with subwoofers to 8361.

 

[DanielT]

And most of us don't take into account the length of the room. If talking 15 m2, and guessing 3x5 then lowest bass attainable at 21Celsius is 34.38 Hz. 27 Celsius means 34.73 Hz.

Yes, considering not the whole but just half of the length of the largest wave as valid, and regardless of the astounding equipment to be used, the bass is nevertheless restricted to 340.294*(((T+273.15)/288.15)^0.5)/2/L, being T temperature in Celsius and L the length in meters of the room the loudspeakers are pointed to, isn't it ?
Also, temperature is a factor.
The minimum detected variation in pitch is 5 cents, known as Just Noticeable Difference in Pitch.
A semitone, equal temperament, has 100 cents.
Set A4, MIDI #69, to 440 Hz and the lowest key (A0, MIDI #21) is 27.5 Hz, 88-key keyboard piano.
At this frequency a 5 cents change means
5/1200*log(X/27.5) going down, X being 27.42069 and 5/1200*log(27.5/X) going up, X being 27.57954. A mean change of say 0.08 will do.
Yes, we will detect 8/100 of an Hertz !!!!
If the length of the room is 6.2 meters to grant 27.5 Hz, any 2 degrees of temperature variation ( 15-17-19-21-23-25-27 ) will affect the lower bass in a range human beings will detect it, 0.5656 Hz in pitch change from 15 C to 27 C.

Same computing for bass at 16 Hz, but calling for a room offering 11 meters, equates 5 cents to a mere 5/100 Hertz, the temperature change remaining at 2 C to detect the changes, 0.3188 Hz variation in pitch this time, also going 15 C to 27 C.

At last, peace of mind, I understand why my equipment was offering "more body" in winter at 15 C than in summer, at 27 C.

Then comes relative humidity...

Humidity, Concert Hall Sound & Spectral Tilt

www.stereophile.com

Maybe I missed, or didn't get it?
What does this what you are now saying have anything to do with speakers for home HiFi use? Temperature differences and sound? For PA heat regarding elememt/ drivers MAY be a problem. But those PA people adjust things based on needs, but sometimes it can go wrong. But home HiFi and heat (regarding speakers) ?

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

So how do we get Genelec to cut the crap and send Amir a 1236A to measure?

 

[FrantzM]

My bass response in my room dies below about 28 Hz because of the dimensions of the room . My lowest room resonanse is about 31 Hz, were I have a big peak. Below 28 Hz I can anyway feel the DIY subwoofers doing some sound pressure in the room.

But the fact is that if the room is to small , it might be a waste of money to get subwoofers flat to 20 Hz ,- so good point.
In a room smaller than about 6*4 meters its probably overkill with subwoofers to 8361.

If that were the case you wouldn’t be able to hear below 20 Hz with headphones capable of such.
Not true.

 

[Digby]

So how do we get Genelec to cut the crap and send Amir a 1236A to measure?

They should do it, on the condition he dresses up as the pink panther and sits on top of it.

 

[RobL]

They should do it, on the condition he dresses up as the pink panther and sits on top of it.

There’s one on ebay right now for $7500…seems a steal. We could start a pool and buy it for Amir. I’ll put $100 in!

 

[Sancus]

So how do we get Genelec to cut the crap and send Amir a 1236A to measure?

I'd rather see him review the W371A tbh. It does interesting things other than just play even more super loud than the S360, which is pretty much all the main monitors do.