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Genelec options for dedicated home theater.

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Xander33

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Glad your demo went well. I'd love to visit them some day.

I've never seen measurements of the 1234AC in the vertical configuration, so I can't say how it would compare to the 8361A. However, just looking at the measurements that exist, it doesn't seem to be as well-refined as the Ones. You would have to mount it into your wall to get the best out of it.

And it would be able to deliver satisfying bass down to 40Hz, but it is still a far cry from the NSW's you already have, even in a sealed configuration. There is just nothing that will compare to a 21" cone with 21mm of xmax and a 6.3" voice coil. You already have them, so you may as well use them.

It was great. If the opportunity presents, you definitely should!

I would be mounting in a baffle wall (I left that out above) and that is why their comments were that they thought it would be similar.

You are correct about the NSW....I can certainly try a sealed box for them and test it out. I will check out how high up I can run those as well, without running into too many issues integrating with the 8361. If that worked out, it would certainly be a money saver to use them and the 8361 vs the 1234A(which are like $13k each). I'm sure I'll do the demo of the 1234 and likely go back and try the 8361 without the woofer stands just to see. I'll also need to study more of the specs on them and the crossover points with their own drivers.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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It was great. If the opportunity presents, you definitely should!

I would be mounting in a baffle wall (I left that out above) and that is why their comments were that they thought it would be similar.

You are correct about the NSW....I can certainly try a sealed box for them and test it out. I will check out how high up I can run those as well, without running into too many issues integrating with the 8361. If that worked out, it would certainly be a money saver to use them and the 8361 vs the 1234A(which are like $13k each). I'm sure I'll do the demo of the 1234 and likely go back and try the 8361 without the woofer stands just to see. I'll also need to study more of the specs on them and the crossover points with their own drivers.
The NSW's can play up to 250Hz without issue, but integration definitely becomes an issue at that point. The Trinnov, however, is a powerful tool for making it work.
 
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Xander33

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The NSW's can play up to 250Hz without issue, but integration definitely becomes an issue at that point. The Trinnov, however, is a powerful tool for making it work.
That’s plenty high I think. It would work out similar to what the GLM usually passes of to the 371 at. Do you think that with all the capabilities of the trinnov, that making the NSW blend well with the 8361(or even 8351 if this is the route) and act like a big main is realistic?
 

nerdoldnerdith

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That’s plenty high I think. It would work out similar to what the GLM usually passes of to the 371 at. Do you think that with all the capabilities of the trinnov, that making the NSW blend well with the 8361(or even 8351 if this is the route) and act like a big main is realistic?
Yes I think it is realistic. The Trinnov is able to correct the phase response of the crossover, so sound will arrive at your ears in a time-coherent fashion from every speaker-subwoofer configuration. If you put a sub in each corner you can map the left speaker to the left sub, the center speaker to left and right subs, the right speaker to the right sub, the read surrounds to their corresponding subs, and the side surrounds to both subs in front and back, like the left side surround gets mapped to the subs in the front left and back left corner. This way there is always either a sub or a phantom image where the speaker is.
 
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Xander33

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Yes I think it is realistic. The Trinnov is able to correct the phase response of the crossover, so sound will arrive at your ears in a time-coherent fashion from every speaker-subwoofer configuration. If you put a sub in each corner you can map the left speaker to the left sub, the center speaker to left and right subs, the right speaker to the right sub, the read surrounds to their corresponding subs, and the side surrounds to both subs in front and back, like the left side surround gets mapped to the subs in the front left and back left corner. This way there is always either a sub or a phantom image where the speaker is.
More so meaning if I were to stack the lcr on an nsw each as “part of the main” and still using the 24s for 35hz down, and placed optimally for that. Just replacing the woofer stands with my own version really.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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More so meaning if I were to stack the lcr on an nsw each as “part of the main” and still using the 24s for 35hz down, and placed optimally for that. Just replacing the woofer stands with my own version really.
You could do that as well. You will need to secure the speakers to the subs very well, because the subwoofers will vibrate.
 
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Xander33

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You could do that as well. You will need to secure the speakers to the subs very well, because the subwoofers will vibrate.
You’re way more versed in this than me…I was just thinking that gets the output(and then some) of the 1234a, the benefits of the 8361a and saves the most money. I don’t want it to be an inferior solution in any way though. If you think there’s a better option for the mains to have it all so to speak, I’m open to making any changes needed.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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If it were me I would get two more HS-24's and put them all in giant refrigerator-sized ported subs tuned to 10Hz so that you have a 24" ported monster and a 21" Othorn in each corner. This would give you maximum efficiency and tactile effect for the entire bass range. It would sound insane on every level.

We're talking about deep bass that will make your whole house shake and midbass that will take the air out of your chest.

But that's just me. I'm a basshead to the core.

I got to experience 140+dB at Scott Newby's home theater and I've been a different man ever since.
 

sarumbear

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I got to experience 140+dB at Scott Newby's home theater and I've been a different man ever since.
Can you still hear anything?

 

nerdoldnerdith

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Can you still hear anything?

This is frequency-dependent. 140dB bass is fine for your hearing.
 

sarumbear

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sarumbear

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nerdoldnerdith

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You are very young. Hearing loss is cumulative. I urge you to read the related thread linked at my signature.
Where does it say that exposure to bass frequencies at high levels is the same as exposure to high frequencies?

I have been to loud concerts that were probably in the neighborhood of 100dB relatively continuous SPL and my ears were ringing hard after that and I had difficulty hearing afterwards. That was uncomfortably loud and the kind of sound I suspect would cause hearing damage in the long term.

I experienced no such thing after hearing Newby's theater. Bear in mind that was 140dB of very deep bass that lasted a few seconds at most, and I was wearing hearing protection. I don't listen anywhere near as loud when I am at home, nor would I want to do that. It was just an extreme example of what is possible.
 
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Xander33

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If it were me I would get two more HS-24's and put them all in giant refrigerator-sized ported subs tuned to 10Hz so that you have a 24" ported monster and a 21" Othorn in each corner. This would give you maximum efficiency and tactile effect for the entire bass range. It would sound insane on every level.

We're talking about deep bass that will make your whole house shake and midbass that will take the air out of your chest.

But that's just me. I'm a basshead to the core.

I got to experience 140+dB at Scott Newby's home theater and I've been a different man ever since.
The issue is that I don’t want subs in the rear corners of the room. My question about something being better wasn’t really about absolute max spl(of course output is important to me too, more so than most folks I suspect) but integration of the nsws as “mid bass bins” integrating with the 8361s. I plan an sba most likely with 8 24s at 1/4 points on the front wall for the low low stuff. Im concerned I won’t be able to marry the nsw to the 8361s and create a “one speaker” out of the combo
 

sarumbear

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Where does it say that exposure to bass frequencies at high levels is the same as exposure to high frequencies?
I have been to loud concerts that were probably in the neighborhood of 100dB relatively continuous SPL and my ears were ringing hard after that and I had difficulty hearing afterwards. That was uncomfortably loud and the kind of sound I suspect would cause hearing damage in the long term.
It sure will I am afraid :(
I experienced no such thing after hearing Newby's theater. Bear in mind that was 140dB of very deep bass that lasted a few seconds at most, and I was wearing hearing protection.
Very wise but we didn't know that hence my continuous comments on protection.
I don't listen anywhere near as loud when I am at home, nor would I want to do that. It was just an extreme example of what is possible.
Very wise again. I am very happy to hear that. Enjoy life to the full but save your body for later :)

PS. I apologise for off-topic posts but I hope you will forgive me for posting on a health related issue that affects all of us.
 
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Xander33

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In my experience that’s the description of flat room/speaker interaction. You are basically complaining about the lack of room modes :)
I'm curious of your thoughts on the scenarios I've laid out...

Using the 8361 as LCR and putting an NSW21 below each running from 35-200hz or so, creating a "super main" type lcr, then running the sealed 24s for ULF from 35hz on down, or running something like the 1234AC as the lcr and just letting them rip down to 35hz, crossing the to the 24s for ULF. Obviously the latter is easier as far as integration and tuning, but by how much? Enough to spend an additional $7k per lcr? Again, I'm trying to get the best characteristics of the 8361, the coax, and the output potential of the 1234 all in one without really compromising. I'm not chasing the output to listen at 100+ db continuously all the time, but I do watch movies loud (probably louder than most) and don't want to have to boost anything, rather bring down areas in order to flavor to taste. I am also a big believer in headroom and not running anything (cars, body, electronics, etc) to it's limit in order to achieve the result.
 

sarumbear

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I'm curious of your thoughts on the scenarios I've laid out...

Using the 8361 as LCR and putting an NSW21 below each running from 35-200hz or so, creating a "super main" type lcr, then running the sealed 24s for ULF from 35hz on down, or running something like the 1234AC as the lcr and just letting them rip down to 35hz, crossing the to the 24s for ULF. Obviously the latter is easier as far as integration and tuning, but by how much? Enough to spend an additional $7k per lcr? Again, I'm trying to get the best characteristics of the 8361, the coax, and the output potential of the 1234 all in one without really compromising. I'm not chasing the output to listen at 100+ db continuously all the time, but I do watch movies loud (probably louder than most) and don't want to have to boost anything, rather bring down areas in order to flavor to taste. I am also a big believer in headroom and not running anything (cars, body, electronics, etc) to it's limit in order to achieve the result.
If you are going to use Genelec mains I suggest you study the Genelec Showroom in US and replicate what they set up. They should know best, don’t you think? There’s a thread about that showroom on ASR.

I also think 8351 with its matching bass unit, W371 is a better speaker than 8361. (It seems Genelec agree as that’s what they used on their showroom.) The latter is a good option if you don’t have the space, but no match to the former combination.

It makes sense to use Genelec subwoofers as well as you can then keep everything in digital.
 

radio3

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Can anyone offer an opinion on the viability of using mere 8020s as surround and height speakers for 8341 LCR if using a pair of excellent subwoofers (e.g., Arendal 1723 2S)?

I could even do 7.2.4 if that would help at all. It's just that the WAF for 8030s or larger on the rear surrounds is low but cute little 8020s might just squeeze by.

Opinions and or methodology on how to select model of Genelec to use alongside 8341s up front would be greatly appreciated. The room is only 25 square meters, though with high ceilings.
 

tifune

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Can anyone offer an opinion on the viability of using mere 8020s as surround and height speakers for 8341 LCR if using a pair of excellent subwoofers (e.g., Arendal 1723 2S)?

I could even do 7.2.4 if that would help at all. It's just that the WAF for 8030s or larger on the rear surrounds is low but cute little 8020s might just squeeze by.

Opinions and or methodology on how to select model of Genelec to use alongside 8341s up front would be greatly appreciated. The room is only 25 square meters, though with high ceilings.

Depends on use case, I use 8320s and 8330s for surrounds/heights with 8341/8331 fronts but it's almost entirely within 1m for 2ch upmixing. How far, type of content, etc etc
 
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