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Genelec on audio science

tomeh

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Here is a major fact that I consider daily; When I record, mix, and master a project one of my main goals is to bring the playback as close as possible to what the performers actually sounded like with me sitting in the best seat in the room. I am for most part one in 10,000. The other 9,999 are doing what I explain to customers as "creating a sound by altering their performance." I take the Hippocratic Oath for recording, others ignore it.

I explain it to a performer like this;
The lead guitar player goes into the studio with his guitar, his effects pedals, his amplifier and his playing technique.
The recording tech plugs his guitar into a DI, splits the output with one going to his amp and the other straight into the recording interface/preamp. He adds a mic in front of the amp to capture the actual "sound" created by the musician.
They record two tracks, his actual musical creation/sound and a "dry" guitar only track.
The guitar player leaves and the "recording engineer" takes the dry track and runs through his own virtual pedals and amps and uses the new altered track in the recording.

The same can be said of every individual element going into that recording if the person doing it isn't interested in capturing the actual performance. As soon as he/she crosses that line, he or she is part of the creative process and any resemblance of the true original performance quickly disappears.

How do you know how hard the recording tech, mixer, mastering engineer has worked to preserve "what the performers actually sounded like with me sitting in the best seat in the room?"

I have used pitch correction only twice in my life, both times to correct/offset a Recorder purchased off of the street in Tibet that the performer wanted to use but was a few cents lower than standard pitch. I believed this to be ethical since it corrected only the absolute pitch of the instrument and didn't truly change the performance.

BTW most musicians are terrible on the technical/scientific/measurement based side and are easily influenced and loose control quickly of their own work. If they are knowledgeable participants in alterations to the original music then they are still creating the sound (let's see them reproduce it in concert). When the performer leaves, the performance stops.

Tom eh
 
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svart-hvitt

svart-hvitt

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Genelec Announces Dr. Ilpo Martikainen Audio Visionary Scholarship
Coinciding with its 40th anniversary year, Genelec announces the founding of the Genelec Dr. Ilpo Martikainen Audio Visionary Scholarship, offered annually to U.S. graduate students in the field of audio engineering who are members of the Audio Engineering Society (AES). The scholarship, in the amount of $5000, is being offered in association with the Audio Engineering Society Education Foundation to students who have a passion of advancing audio through innovation and technology development.

More: https://www.genelec.com/genelec-announces-dr-ilpo-martikainen-audio-visionary-scholarship
 

Wombat

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Any applicants, here?;)
 
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svart-hvitt

svart-hvitt

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tomeh

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Wow Just got the book and I'm enjoying like nothing else in the past 30 years. I'm reading it straight through and it's every consideration, experiment, results, logical evaluation, reasoned direction and anticipated "next question" that I've either experienced or wished I had the time and resources to explore. He's brought together everything in such a logical manner. It's fantastic. And I only at page 75.
Dr. Floyd Toole's book is the best read ever. What a complete, logical, well documented, wealth of knowledge this is and represents. I've read it twice and I'm now "cherry picking" selections to verify topics, reinforce detail and check my memory.

It has reinforced my observations throughout the years, explained many through research, opened new areas that I haven't been able to do myself and allowed me to focus my direction with more confidence.


Many thanks Dr. Toole.
 

amirm

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Dr. Floyd Toole's book is the best read ever. What a complete, logical, well documented, wealth of knowledge this is and represents. I've read it twice and I'm now "cherry picking" selections to verify topics, reinforce detail and check my memory.

It has reinforced my observations throughout the years, explained many through research, opened new areas that I haven't been able to do myself and allowed me to focus my direction with more confidence.

Many thanks Dr. Toole.
It is a bible you will go to time and time again. I must have referenced it 30+ times. There is no more useful book for audiophiles than it!
 

Snarfie

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I found this piece, by Siamäk Naghian of Genelec, to be well written:

https://www.genelec.com/blog/its-not-right-its-not-even-wrong-why-scientific-foundation-matters

It sums up what I believe to be the views of many people on ASR.

And I thought especially this sentence about Genelec founder Ilpo Martikainen is of great interest:

"Regardless of his engineering background, his mind often zoomed in on subjects of social, cultural and philosophical importance".

PS: Picture of late Ilpo Martikainen (1947-2017), founder of Genelec, at the bottom.

Copy of whole text:

It’s not right. It’s not even wrong. Why scientific foundation matters.
Several years ago, I attended our annual distributor dinner event in Frankfurt, where Ilpo Martikainen offered an interesting speech on marketing. I had long learned to relish the moments when Ilpo shared his thoughts in this way – so unlike a typical commercially or technology-oriented company leader. Regardless of his engineering background, his mind often zoomed in on subjects of social, cultural and philosophical importance.

On the evening in question, he raised the importance of maintaining a factual foundation in marketing. This is particularly true, he argued, in the world of audio, where subjective viewpoints and individual perception can prove highly influential when critically evaluating audio quality – whether consciously or otherwise. In his speech, he referred to Harry G. Frankfurt’s books, “On Truth” and “On Bullshit”, both of which discuss the background and motivation for the misrepresentation of facts – as well as the dangers to our civilization of becoming indifferent to such activity.

Now we are in the era of social platforms and the data economy, enabled by unprecedented developments in the fields of data collection, computing and networking, and indifference to mistruth has become a real danger. Thus, for the good of society, it is more than ever before the responsibility of individuals, companies and other organisations and communities, to represent themselves faithfully and honestly.

At Genelec, we believe that the objective and subjective assessment of reproduced sound should always go hand-in-hand. The subject is a human, the setting is planet Earth, and the question is “what are we able to hear, given enough time?”. Repeatability and falsifiability are equally important qualities in distinguishing facts from fiction, hence the headline of this blog, a quote from Austrian physicist, Wolfgang Pauli: “A claim may be worse than wrong if it neither can be proven correct, nor falsified”. Consequently, selecting the objective measurements that are most relevant in professional audio, then reporting them consistently and honestly is a guiding principle that Genelec has always followed.

There is significant research that demonstrates the direct inter-relation between the objective and subjective aspects of reproduced sound quality, but there is also often a tendency to remain favourably disposed towards the one or another. Too often, one may encounter claims such as “it doesn’t matter what a measured flat frequency looks like, it only matters how it sounds”. Such a statement might sound appealing, and it’s not even incorrect because it is based not on the purpose of flat frequency or acoustical calibration, but rather an alternative interpretation of “truth”, and thus it is misleading.

The starting point of any high-end monitor design is the scientific foundation, and the neutrality and standards that foundation requires to deliver quality assurance. The end quality of reproduced sound is shaped by several factors, including the audio material, the monitor design, the room in which the audio is played and the monitor’s interaction with that space, as well as perceptual influences. But without a foundation of facts, it would be impossible to find any reference for the quality perception which is, by definition, a subjective concept.

Genelec’s education-oriented marketing therefore reflects our philosophy of providing truthful monitoring systems with respect for the human user. Indeed, the truthful reproduction of sound has been the cornerstone of the Genelec design philosophy since the origin of the company in 1978. Accordingly, we maintain a harmonious approach towards electro-acoustic design, while our incorporation of digital technology is intended to further this goal. For example, the development of Genelec Loudspeaker Manager (GLM) based systems now enables us to contend with far more challenging acoustic environments. In addition, it enables the reproduced sound to be customised in a predictable way, but always while maintaining a flat frequency response as its foundation.

The emotional engagement between a brand and its users is important and desirable, but we believe that the foundation of such an engagement must always be based on facts related to the products or services offered to the users. The adoption of a scientific foundation has been an essential ingredient in the development of human civilisation. Science can’t cover all the facts around us but so far it has provided the most reliable ground upon which we can build.

As Ilpo understood, good marketing is all about being able to tell a powerful story, and the best story of all is always the truth. That’s the best way to educate, inspire and create real value for users, while avoiding the trap of indifference.


Siamäk Naghian

Managing Director



ILPO MARTIKAINEN (1947-2017)
28616937_10155898180003673_4167117947706031091_o.jpg
Yes i can relate to his views. When i used roomcorrection i got for 80% a flat frequence respons which did not made the sound spectaculair but the fatigue dissapeard at once ( taking in account my specific rooms accoustics) and after 10 minuts changing from roomcorrection to bypass i was convinced of my new found sound based on scientific knoledge ha ha en reconditioning regading my listning habbits. My speakers sound totaly different.
 
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Habu

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Hello from France,

Just for fun, the old Genelec 8030A (2005-2013) inside view:

IMG_2167.JPG


IMG_2165.JPG
 
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soundwave76

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^ Good old 8020! I had these in my desktop setup for a long while and they are awesome.
 

Habu

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Hi soundwave76,
I wrote 8020B as indicated on Wikimedia, but on the board it is written 8030A.
 
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