Genelec in large room: waste of money?

[mcdn]

I bought the B&Ws before I knew any of this recent info. So I have them. I can can either use them or sell them. The link you provided is for speakers many generations newer than the ones I own (805s, the 's' is part of the name, not plural), but I'm sure mine would fare no better. In the past I've liked the sound of B&Ws. These particular ones I have not tried yet. I could certainly try to sell the B&Ws and get R3s.

So I take it you'd vote for room correction (Lyngdorf+something) over active speakers (LS50W2).

I'll always vote for room correction over anything else. So will Amir, so I'm in decent company. The LS50Ws are lovely neutral speakers but they can't correct for the room. If I were you I would see my choices as:

1. Add room correction to the LS50W/KC62 combo you already have. Most easily done with a MiniDSP Flex and Dirac license for $750 or so. Option to get a second KC62 if you like the result.
2. Start over: Sell the pair of 805s and all the KEF stuff, get an amp with room correction, some passive speakers and some new subs, or go full Genelec, or whatever

Option 2 sounds like a lot of hard work. I'd try option 1 first.

 

[Flaesh]

What is the budget?.

I would look at something like JBL 4367 or M2 for such a room.

Or something like JBL 4722 for smaller budget

 

[Shadrach]

Whichever speakers you choose, if you are after an accurate rendition of the media at any given point you are going to need room correction.
I assume your listening space is also a living space rather than a dedicated listening room. Getting, or trying to at least, a perfect response for any speaker in a living space other than a pupose built studio is going to be a problem and is going to cost money. A lot can be done with loudspeaker placement and the addition or movement of furniture. After that room correction may iron out the worst of the bumps.

You may achieve the closest to flat response at your listening position and find you don't like it. Many do. Not much point getting things ruler flat if it doesn't encourage one to listen to music.

I can happily listen to a pair of Genelec 8030C with a 7050cpm sub at 4 metres away and get what I consider to be adequate volume with some headroom left. My so called listening position is less than 2metres away, but I don't sit there and listen enough to make the resposne there critical. It's a living space for me and I move around while the stereo is playing, so there's a further consideration, how one listens on a day to day basis.

One can spend months tinkering about trying to get the best possible room curve with any loudspeakers. For most it just isn't worth the bother and what they want is an acceptable sound they can enjoy; having a set of graphs to post on ASR showing how flat response one achieved in ones listening space is not imo the point of a stereo system.

Buy what you like for the reasons that are important to you and forget about the how flat is your room response contests.
Over time and listening you may find there are particular tracks that cause the room to misbehave and that is the time to see what can be done to improve the situation.

 

[Rja4000]

Honestly the Genelecs are past the desired budget, before factoring in subs, which I hoped were not necessary. So if I’m not going to get fantastic results out of this, it’s probably not worth me spending the money on it.

If the big Genelec are too expensive, I can think of a few good value alternatives.

Room correction with Dirac is easy to setup and, in my experience, quite efficient.
MiniDSP has some hardware with Dirac included, be it integrated with a DAC or standalone (to insert between the source and the DAC, as an example).

Speakers wise, a pair of Genelec 1032 may be found used for quite a low price.
I was able to buy 2 pairs of 1032A for around 1500€ each in the past.
They are good active speakers that, as long as you don't install them on the floor, will give you a good and loud sound. Especially with Dirac.

If you prefer, passive towers may be a good choice too.
If you're in Europe, I'm quite happy with the Focal Aria 948 (with Dirac). But there are plenty of other options.
Add a good amp (Purifi ?) and you'd be very good...

 

[Cote Dazur]

No, I have no flexibility in seating. That’s my main worry… that I am going to spend a ton of money on something that’s never going to sound great anyway.

If you engage with the right expectation in relation to your situation, you have already won the battle. You still might end up with "great" sound to your ears but will avoid spending money on irrelevant technological to your situation.

the concept of room correction and the concept of active speakers. If I'm willing to forgo the active speakers

Active speakers have advantages, but their is also big advantage in using existing speakers until you fully learn and experience your room, as the room is the most important player. Once you know your room and understand/know what needs to be done.
Next, speaker placement, since seat is not possible, is what needs to happen, then you may or may not feel like tinkering with room correction, hopefully understanding room correction is not magic or even guarantee of improvements to what you ear, just an other tool with potential.

 

[Mr. Widget]

What line arrays would you recommend for the OP?

The most affordable line arrays that I have experience with are the fairly compact JBL CBT 70J-1s. They work surprisingly well when matched with quality subwoofers. My typical go to line arrays that I use are likely way out of the budget for this project. They are from Wisdom Audio or Steinway Lyngdorf.

I really like the suggestion made earlier in the thread of the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 plus passive speakers. That device would be extremely convenient for my use, and it has good room correction apparently.

This compact integrated amp would be great as long as your speakers are fairly sensitive or your desired playback SPL is moderate. Also, it is only stereo so setting up a video system with it is fairly limited.

 

[mkush]

I'll always vote for room correction over anything else. So will Amir, so I'm in decent company. The LS50Ws are lovely neutral speakers but they can't correct for the room. If I were you I would see my choices as:

1. Add room correction to the LS50W/KC62 combo you already have. Most easily done with a MiniDSP Flex and Dirac license for $750 or so. Option to get a second KC62 if you like the result.
2. Start over: Sell the pair of 805s and all the KEF stuff, get an amp with room correction, some passive speakers and some new subs, or go full Genelec, or whatever

Option 2 sounds like a lot of hard work. I'd try option 1 first.

I’m confused. At first you say the LS50W are great speakers but can’t correct for the room. But your first suggestion is to add room correction to them. So I guess you’re saying that they can’t correct for the room *without add-ons*.

But then I’m confused again. How can anything be added to the LS50W when it is a self-contained system? DAC, preamp, amp, speaker all in one. Where does a MiniDSP get inserted?

Trying to answer my own question… I wasn’t familiar with the MiniDSP Flex. Looks like it will take digital (and analog?) in and give digital out. So all my sources would have to connect to that, which would then dump into a digital input on the LS50W I guess. Right? Only issues would be, does it have enough inputs, and that anything generated by the LS50W itself (like streaming stuff or AirPlay2) would not be corrected. Right? Oh and who controls volume? The Flex or the LS50W?

 

[Mr. Widget]

I'll always vote for room correction over anything else. So will Amir, so I'm in decent company.

I think you are misunderstanding Amir's position. Electronic room correction should always be applied AFTER you have done the best you can with physical room correction. Physical room correction can be as simple as how you approach your room's decor or it can be as complex as adding bass traps, diffusors and absorption panels, but however you approach it, the DSP is a bandaid. It won't cure cancer, but for a mild cut a bandaid may be all you need.

Obviously in most of our homes we can only do so much with our decor and room treatment, but this should still be looked at first and don't be afraid to get creative.

 

[mkush]

This compact integrated amp would be great as long as your speakers are fairly sensitive or your desired playback SPL is moderate. Also, it is only stereo so setting up a video system with it is fairly limited.

Stereo is the goal. Regarding amp power, I think the original suggestion was to use a powered sub or subs, letting the Lyngdorf power the “normal” speakers with a high-pass filter so that the power required to run them isn’t so much. Hopefully I understood that correctly. Also, yes, playback volumes will be moderate.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Oh and who controls volume? The Flex or the LS50W?

You would control the volume with whatever preamp you choose even with powered speakers. It could be the Lyngdorf or the miniDSP Flex.

EDIT: The miniDSP Flex is a fine product, but it is not as refined as the Lyngdorf. The miniDSP Flex is more of a DIY product for people who like to get under the hood and mess about. Think custom hotrod that requires attention as opposed to a factory built car that has the bugs worked out and just works.

 

[mkush]

You would control the volume with whatever preamp you choose even with powered speakers. It could be the Lyngdorf or the miniDSP Flex.

The LS50W is a preamp too and thus has volume control already. So there would be two of them in the chain… the Flex and the LS50W. And I imagine that in the Flex it’s done digitally, while in the LS50W I think it’s analog, right before the amp. Just questioning from a sound quality standpoint.

 

[Mr. Widget]

The LS50W is a preamp too and thus has volume control already. So there would be two of them in the chain… the Flex and the LS50W. And I imagine that in the Flex it’s done digitally, while in the LS50W I think it’s analog, right before the amp. Just questioning from a sound quality standpoint.

Sorry, I was thinking it was a basic active speaker, and didn't realize it was a streamer. I have never used one.

 

[mkush]

I'll always vote for room correction over anything else. So will Amir, so I'm in decent company. The LS50Ws are lovely neutral speakers but they can't correct for the room. If I were you I would see my choices as:

1. Add room correction to the LS50W/KC62 combo you already have. Most easily done with a MiniDSP Flex and Dirac license for $750 or so. Option to get a second KC62 if you like the result.
2. Start over: Sell the pair of 805s and all the KEF stuff, get an amp with room correction, some passive speakers and some new subs, or go full Genelec, or whatever

Option 2 sounds like a lot of hard work. I'd try option 1 first.

You had previously suggested KEF R3. What about LS50 Meta instead? Assuming I’m using sub(s), it doesn’t seem like the woofer on the R3 is as necessary. Asking because, to be honest, I like the looks of the LS50 better and I already own the stands. Also seems like the Lyndorf might have an easier time with them (less to drive).

Also: in your option 2 (start over), you say sell everything and get new … subs. I’m wondering why I would sell the KEF KC62 and not just use it with whatever main speakers I end up with. Is it not any good?

 

[dshreter]

You had previously suggested KEF R3. What about LS50 Meta instead? Assuming I’m using sub(s), it doesn’t seem like the woofer on the R3 is as necessary. Asking because, to be honest, I like the looks of the LS50 better and I already own the stands. Also seems like the Lyndorf might have an easier time with them (less to drive).

Also: in your option 2 (start over), you say sell everything and get new … subs. I’m wondering why I would sell the KEF KC62 and not just use it with whatever main speakers I end up with. Is it not any good?

I would generally advise R3 over LS50 as it’s a more complete speaker for the price. But as you’ve accurately said, LS50 will be great with a sub, and if you already have appropriate stands that helps too.

I wouldn’t have any reservations over an LS50 Meta + KC62 setup.

 

[mkush]

I would generally advise R3 over LS50 as it’s a more complete speaker for the price. But as you’ve accurately said, LS50 will be great with a sub, and if you already have appropriate stands that helps too.

I wouldn’t have any reservations over an LS50 Meta + KC62 setup.

Cool thanks. This option (Lyngdorf/LS50Meta/KC62) is appealing to me. I do note that the LS50 Meta is $600 less per pair than the R3, at least here in the US.

 

[dshreter]

Cool thanks. This option (Lyngdorf/LS50Meta/KC62) is appealing to me. I do note that the LS50 Meta is $600 less per pair than the R3, at least here in the US.

seems like a great plan. R3 has often been on sale, but I see what you’re saying with current prices.

 

[AudioJester]

I would generally advise R3 over LS50 as it’s a more complete speaker for the price. But as you’ve accurately said, LS50 will be great with a sub, and if you already have appropriate stands that helps too.

I wouldn’t have any reservations over an LS50 Meta + KC62 setup.

Does LS50 meta still require a 150Hz or so crossover to subs? Do you need dual subs?

 

[dshreter]

Does LS50 meta still require a 150Hz or so crossover to subs? Do you need dual subs?

Dual subs would depend on SPL. Yeah, they should cross around 120Hz or something, they are not quite flat all the way to 80Hz.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[mcdn]

Also: in your option 2 (start over), you say sell everything and get new … subs. I’m wondering why I would sell the KEF KC62 and not just use it with whatever main speakers I end up with. Is it not any good?

I was just keeping the options simple, you can do whatever you want! The KC62 is fine, if you keep it consider getting a second one.

 

[mkush]

Dual subs would depend on SPL. Yeah, they should cross around 120Hz or something, they are not quite flat all the way to 80Hz.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You say dual subs would depend on SPL. In my case, listening volumes will seldom be very loud. But one comment I read in another thread does make me wonder about dual subs. I’ve always heard that low bass is not directional. But, if I’m going to cross these over relatively high, might I be in the territory of being able to hear where the bass is coming from and thus screw up my stereo imaging?