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Genelec good enough?

Gnasherrr

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Genelec seems to be cutting more corners too, but it's for loudness. Look at the spec for the 8260 frequency response vs the 8361a that 'replaces' it. One is more accurate, and has more extended bass. The other is louder. Guess which is which.

Just need a crazy speaker that is a mutation of an 8331 with a Devialet Phantom. Insane imaging, accurate sound, incredible bass extension, in a small box for nearfield.

The difference is in the bass driver for 8260 vs 8361. The oval race track drivers are at a huge disadvantage on its sheer size, and therefore lacking in bass extension and max spl. Although it's trading those to imaging, in room consistency & minimal listening distance. I think it's a fine trade-off if you only intend to use it as nearfield use, where speakers don't need to be very loud anyways.
 

stevenswall

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^There is so much space on the sides though... Just seems like they could add two more woofers there and get things below 30hz.
 

Gnasherrr

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^There is so much space on the sides though... Just seems like they could add two more woofers there and get things below 30hz.

They would have done it if there were space. You can compare 8351 to 8350 and 8341 to 8340 as well. The bass extension is lower on the older model. If you really need that kind of bass extension you know you can always get a subwoofer.
 

Sancus

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8361a seems like a lot of speaker for nearfield use. I know it's no Revel Salon 2 or anything, but it is a 70lb 24" tall speaker with 124db/1m peak SPL. According to their site it's intended for up to 5m. I think they're definitely expecting subwoofer use in rooms that require such a speaker. Plus they added that W371A thing if you need even more SPL in the low end. I realize all these things cost extra money, but, I don't think price/performance is a major concern for this lineup haha.
 
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leonroy

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Just need a crazy speaker that is a mutation of an 8331 with a Devialet Phantom. Insane imaging, accurate sound, incredible bass extension, in a small box for nearfield.

To be honest, unless you need XLR input or low latency the Phantom is a speaker with all of the criteria above. It does lack in the reliability department though...
 

Frank Dernie

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To be honest, unless you need XLR input or low latency the Phantom is a speaker with all of the criteria above. It does lack in the reliability department though...
I have both a Devialet amplifier in my main system and a pair of Silver Phantoms from the first production batch (about 5 years ago). The amp has always been faultless and the only inconvenience with the Phantoms has been in the very early days when the firmware was very buggy. They upgraded my Dialog box free at one stage though I don't know why, I wasn't having a problem and didn't notice any extra functionality with the new one.
The only "fault" is that the early ones don't have blutooth so the latest version of the operating software won't work with them at all.
I am not bothered though since their dedicated Spark software does everything I need.
I have heard that they don't repair them but that doesn't sound right based on a conversation I had with one of their senior engineers, do you have confirmation of the rumour?
 
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leonroy

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@Frank Dernie small world - your posts on DevialetChat comparing the Silvers favourably to your much more expensive Goldmunds were impetus for me to ditch my huge KEF floorstanders and move to Devialet.

The early Dialog ran very hot and also came encased in rubber :facepalm: - maybe a thermal tweak was the reason behind the swap?

Regarding repairs I had a pretty extensive back and forth with their support on at least two occassions. Once when I purchased the Silvers and wanted to know what my options were for service/repair after the warranty expired and the second time when I had to RMA a Phantom Gold which literally went bang after a few months of light use. On both occassions they said that (paraphrasing) due to the extraordinary pressures required to seal the Phantom there is no way to reliably separate the two halves and maintain the same audio quality. They straight swapped the Gold with a new one.

The situation might have changed since, I haven't checked again but with Sonos having just end-of-lifed speakers they were selling as recently as 2015 I guess we're in an age of not only spending more on audio gear than we used to but also getting far less mileage out of it too...jolly odd since people are supposed to be more environmentally conscious now about unnecessary landfill - guess someone should tell Sonos/Devialet that. /rant :D
 

Frank Dernie

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@Frank Dernie small world - your posts on DevialetChat comparing the Silvers favourably to your much more expensive Goldmunds were impetus for me to ditch my huge KEF floorstanders and move to Devialet.

The early Dialog ran very hot and also came encased in rubber :facepalm: - maybe a thermal tweak was the reason behind the swap?

Regarding repairs I had a pretty extensive back and forth with their support on at least two occassions. Once when I purchased the Silvers and wanted to know what my options were for service/repair after the warranty expired and the second time when I had to RMA a Phantom Gold which literally went bang after a few months of light use. On both occassions they said that (paraphrasing) due to the extraordinary pressures required to seal the Phantom there is no way to reliably separate the two halves and maintain the same audio quality. They straight swapped the Gold with a new one.

The situation might have changed since, I haven't checked again but with Sonos having just end-of-lifed speakers they were selling as recently as 2015 I guess we're in an age of not only spending more on audio gear than we used to but also getting far less mileage out of it too...jolly odd since people are supposed to be more environmentally conscious now about unnecessary landfill - guess someone should tell Sonos/Devialet that. /rant :D
Very true!
There are lots of DSP type hifi about these days but I don't like using a computer as part of my music system, so I don't use the Phantoms as much as they deserve.
It is also a concern in general for me.
I still have older electronics that are repairable whereas much of today's kit isn't (apart from a complete pcb replacement). If it is cheap then that isn't too bad (and the Phantom is cheap compared to D&D 8C or Kii) but for big items like speakers, some of the ones I use go back 40 years, having something to throw away after 5 years is unattractive.
I had considered DIY DSP actives using, probably my ProAc EBS or Goldmunds and replacing the crossover and adding amps but, frankly, can't be bothered since nothing about what I am listening to now spoils my enjoyment of music, and I listen several hours a day, so I am saving money by not wasting any more...
I still think the Phantom Silvers I have are brilliant though, particularly for the money.
 

Julf

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stevenswall

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To be honest, unless you need XLR input or low latency the Phantom is a speaker with all of the criteria above. It does lack in the reliability department though...

I bought and returned a pair of phantoms, due to app issues and their cutting out, lack of repairability, and being worried about long term reliability.

Loved the size and sound though. And no port chuffing... Honestly I think they put most companies to shame, because most companies look like the engineering teams took the year off and came back and said "Eh, let's just get down to 40hz, that's good enough... Slap some of them there drivers on this box... They can just use a separate amp... Who cares about the diffraction, we'll just say it's musical."
 

Frank Dernie

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I bought and returned a pair of phantoms, due to app issues and their cutting out, lack of repairability, and being worried about long term reliability.
Mine are coming up to their 5th fault free year. That is when the warranty runs out
 

Colonel Bogey

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Bumping this thread to share some recent experiences relevant to OPs initial question... This spring, after a long evaluation process, I decided that Genelec would indeed be a good enough "high end" system for domestic use. I am an amateur musician and also attend a lot of classical concerts. I only do streaming nowadays, using the excellent Idagio service. I listen in an acoustically challenging, somewhat L-shaped room, some 30sqm. I seldom listen at more then 90dB SPL at my favorite listening position so I went for a pair of 8341As with a 7360A subwoofer, all controlled with a SAM 3.0

- Aesthetically, the family accepted the 8341s straight away, but the 7360A was a hard sell. I finally had to hide it away in a position that isn't quite optimal. But one has to protect ones marriage...
- While Genelec have a lot of mounting options for studio and PA, not so much for home use! The floor stands K&M make for Genelec are hideous and too tall. One has to improvise, I have the speaker free standing so I found two black stools about the right hight...
- I have the GLM running all the time (also got the nice but over-priced 9310 volume control) meaning that the ugly white Cat5 cables are permanently visible. I have to get black ones at least!
- And speaking about volume control, thats why I have the GLM connected all the time. I would probably not be able to hear any difference if I regulated volume at the source but just in case.
- The source is a PC (or a Pi3 if I would dare to disconnect the GLM) so I need to convert USB to AES. I got a Matrix X-SPDIF - heavy, stylish but maybe not the most cost-effective solution.
- The AES cables come in a limited range of fixed lengths and dont contribute to the aesthetics.
- The system is sensitive to bad recordings! I listen a lot more now to new, carefully crafted recordings made by good engineers (hats off, Stephan Reh and the cpo label!) but less to remixes of old superstar recordings on some of the mainstream labels.

And finally - yes, I am very pleased overall with the sound! As an interesting observation: In spite of Corona (this is Sweden you know - we still meet with others but keep a respectful distance of "a small moose"), I have had a number of visits and listening sessions already. The musicians - amateurs as well as pros - love the system. The "audiophiles" however seem less convinced. "Dry" and "unmusical" were a few comments. "Do you really trust these?" a renowned "golden ear" remarked, while pulling one of the AES cables... On the other hand - a woodwind player from our leading philharmonic orchestra went straight home and ordered a pair of 8331's for his apartment.

So, yes. A Genelec system is, in my opinion, a cost-efficient alternative to high-end "audiophile" sound reproduction systems. But a little bit more hassle got get it installed and running properly. And zero bragging rights with the audiophiles :)
 

Sancus

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- While Genelec have a lot of mounting options for studio and PA, not so much for home use! The floor stands K&M make for Genelec are hideous and too tall. One has to improvise, I have the speaker free standing so I found two black stools about the right hight...

You don't need to use the stands designed for Genelec specifically, pretty much any K&M stands work. For example I find these to be excellent, in fact I think they are more subtle than nearly all speaker stands made for home theatre. You can put stuff on top of them, such as tables and plants. Or even a small subwoofer or component stand could work.

V0RBC4S.png


Parts are: 26706W plate, 24623 W distance rod, 19780 adapter -- this distance rod is too tall for normal listening height though, I would suggest 26736 or one of the many other shorter ones.
 

capitanharlock

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I have had a number of visits and listening sessions already. The musicians - amateurs as well as pros - love the system. The "audiophiles" however seem less convinced. "Dry" and "unmusical" were a few comments. "Do you really trust these?" a renowned "golden ear" remarked, while pulling one of the AES cables... On the other hand - a woodwind player from our leading philharmonic orchestra went straight home and ordered a pair of 8331's for his apartment.

So, yes. A Genelec system is, in my opinion, a cost-efficient alternative to high-end "audiophile" sound reproduction systems. But a little bit more hassle got get it installed and running properly. And zero bragging rights with the audiophiles :)

I own a pair of 1038A and I totally agree with you.
The audiophiles usually tend to like some sort of personal sound that is not necessarily hi-fi, but most of the times is sort of “my-fi”.
When they hear (and see) something that reproduces accurately the recording that is “unmusical”.
Anyway I bet that if the Gens were behind a curtain and you had told them that they were the last Wilson or Magico speakers, every audiophile would have found the Gens musical and magic.
 

Julf

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So, yes. A Genelec system is, in my opinion, a cost-efficient alternative to high-end "audiophile" sound reproduction systems. But a little bit more hassle got get it installed and running properly. And zero bragging rights with the audiophiles :)

Not very many people describe Genelecs as "cost-efficient". They are great, but not cheap. As to audiophile bragging rights, you could always have a 10 W single-ended triode amp driving some ridiculous horns with 10% distortion as a second system... :)
 

LTig

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Not very many people describe Genelecs as "cost-efficient". They are great, but not cheap. As to audiophile bragging rights, you could always have a 10 W single-ended triode amp driving some ridiculous horns with 10% distortion as a second system... :)
Compared to highend audiophile speakers even the Genelec Ones are cheap. But there are also the 80xx series speakers (no Coax driver) which are also very good. Or the Neumanns: I dare say that all of them are very difficult to beat within their price range (never forget you don't need to buy power amps) and I really would like to see how the KH420 would finish in a DBT with @amirm's Revel Salon 2 driven by his ML mono blocks (what's that: less then $10k vs $70k?).

BTW @echopraxia: did you manage to send your KH310 to @amirm?
 

echopraxia

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BTW @echopraxia: did you manage to send your KH310 to @amirm?
Amir hasn’t asked for them yet but they are available. It’s not up to me, remember. My offer is always open to have these speakers tested until I sell them. I’ve already sold the Sierra 2EX and the Neumann KH310s are for sale now also, so time is running out :) It’s up to @amirm though to decide what he wants to test next.
 
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echopraxia

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I really would like to see how the KH420 would finish in a DBT with @amirm's Revel Salon 2 driven by his ML mono blocks (what's that: less then $10k vs $70k?)

I now also have Salon2’s :). With monoblock Hypex NC1200 kit amps (and Purifi’s on the way as well, which I also plan for a blind test experiment to see if the SINAD and IMD at this level of exceptional performance matters between the two).

While I can’t compare to Neumann KH420, I can comment on subjective impressions of Salon2 vs Genelec 8351B.

TLDR: In a larger room for relaxed “euphoric” listening, I like the Salon2’s a lot more, but I will have to haul the Genelecs and their stands back down here to compare fairly side by side.

They’re both great in different ways though. I don’t think there is anything magical about why I find the Salon2’s much more enjoyable in my larger room. It’s definitely not SPL, as that does not differ. I think it’s dispersion width. But I certainly could be wrong.
 

Julf

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