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Genelec good enough?

Ron Texas

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Genelecs have sophisticated protection, burning a driver is highly unlikely.
8050 is a classic as is the whole 80xx and 83xx series. The cabinet construction is a milestone and contributes a lot to their known crisp and transparent sound. Some (including myself) find them somewhat lean in the bass / fundamental region, hot in the treble. While this can be adjusted out some of that "overtransparent" character always seems to remain, some people like it, some don't...

I suspect a lot of the actives are protected like that. With actives I am more concerned about the proprietary electronics failing.
 

Gnasherrr

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im eager to find out as well as i wait for my preordered 8351Bs to arrive
 

openvista

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Problem with judging any of the published FR curves is: 1) they don't mention resolution 2) no early reflections curve 3) no vertical data 4) thus no true listening window curve 5) power response (sound power) looks smoothed.

If I had to guess, I'd say both speakers mentioned (8050B and 8350A) sound "bright" at 3m or more. Having a flat (or rising in the case of the 8050B!) power response from 2k - 20k is similar to equalizing your speakers to have a flat in-room response to 20k (which decent room correction software knows not to do these days... knock on wood). The total energy should be rolling off in the last couple octaves. Their overall response suggests they are best suited for nearfield (~1-2m) listening. Putting them in a domestic setting might not be the best application.

Also, I wonder how these speakers might pair with typical consumer pre-amps/AVRs? How do they, for instance, handle low voltage (< 2Vrms) pre-outs?
 

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monkeyboy

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I'm in the market for a system for the same application. I was originally going to go with Goldenear Triton 2s, but I think Pro gear offers a better value.

I'm going with either Genelec 8030C + 7050c or Neumann KH 120a + KH 750...with a Topping balanced DAC...I'll wait till xmass and see what I can get on a sale

I'll save about $1200 on the speakers alone and no longer need an amp, for a cleaner setup...spend some of the saving on room treatments

I'm 50+ and I doubt I can really tell the difference between a very good system costing $x and an great system costing $10*x...

With regard to reliability of the electronics, if I recall most electronics follow and exponential curve, meaning if they are going to fail, they fail early in their life...more likely the cone materials will fail years from now...
 

LTig

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Also, I wonder how these speakers might pair with typical consumer pre-amps/AVRs? How do they, for instance, handle low voltage (< 2Vrms) pre-outs?
The sensitivity of my Genelec 8020 is quite high. When I fed them from the Marantz 7701 the volume was at 11 o'clock, max is 5 and much too loud (can hear hum and noise from the Marantz). Just have a look into the specs or download the manual.
 

LTig

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I'm in the market for a system for the same application. I was originally going to go with Goldenear Triton 2s, but I think Pro gear offers a better value.

I'm going with either Genelec 8030C + 7050c or Neumann KH 120a + KH 750...with a Topping balanced DAC...I'll wait till xmass and see what I can get on a sale
I'd say you can't go wrong with either. Regarding neutrality I prefer the Neumanns.
I'll save about $1200 on the speakers alone and no longer need an amp, for a cleaner setup...spend some of the saving on room treatments

I'm 50+ and I doubt I can really tell the difference between a very good system costing $x and an great system costing $10*x...
Depends on x. But in the highend department I auditioned a few pairs costing between 30.000 and 180.000 € this year. Only one (Sonus Faber Aida) delivered an SQ comparable to my setup for a tiny fractional amount. Biggest disappointment were Martin Logan Renaissance ESL 15A (totally overblown bass, and the ML rep did the demo :facepalm:) Not as bad were Focal Grande Utopia - but too much bass and missing precision in the image did not convince me - not that I had the money to buy them in the first place. The McIntosh XRT1.1K had good sound but only starting with a listening distance of 6 m or more.

Of course, these are my private personal opinions, so take them with a bucket of salt. You have been warned.
With regard to reliability of the electronics, if I recall most electronics follow and exponential curve, meaning if they are going to fail, they fail early in their life...more likely the cone materials will fail years from now...
Both Genelec and Neumann are pro companies and sell to pro customers. Reliability is probably at least as important as sound quality. And in case something goes wrong both makers are able to fix them. This is also important for pro customers.
 

LTig

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Been looking to purchase a system for the home office and wondering if anyone would consider Genelec to be comparable with a high end audio setup?
No, they are better. The pro mastering engineers use genelecs in many studios world wide. Getting the same gear at home is the best way to get a similar SQ.
[..]The Genelec 8050 series have a FR of 38Hz-20kHz (+/- 3db) which seems pretty astounding given that they're half the price of the KEF Reference 1 and include onboard amplification.
It's the amplification (actually an EQ) that allows such a deep bass.

Depending on the money you should also consider the Neumann KH310. It should be somewhat cleaner due to its 3 way system (less IMD in the mids). I use its predecessor (K&H O300D, supported by a Genelec 7060B sub) and I'm very happy with them.
 

GrimSurfer

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They should be fine for the kid's room, workshop or garage.

(J/k. Couldn't resist.)
 

TimVG

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Problem with judging any of the published FR curves is: 1) they don't mention resolution 2) no early reflections curve 3) no vertical data 4) thus no true listening window curve 5) power response (sound power) looks smoothed.

If I had to guess, I'd say both speakers mentioned (8050B and 8350A) sound "bright" at 3m or more. Having a flat (or rising in the case of the 8050B!) power response from 2k - 20k is similar to equalizing your speakers to have a flat in-room response to 20k (which decent room correction software knows not to do these days... knock on wood). The total energy should be rolling off in the last couple octaves. Their overall response suggests they are best suited for nearfield (~1-2m) listening. Putting them in a domestic setting might not be the best application.

Also, I wonder how these speakers might pair with typical consumer pre-amps/AVRs? How do they, for instance, handle low voltage (< 2Vrms) pre-outs?

The small dip you see is courtesy of vertical cancellation between tweeter and bass driver - The Genelec speakers all feature a waveguide that is close to constant directivity for the tweeter used. I have two pair (not the ones with the 8" bass driver though) and they certainly don't sound bright to my ears. The power response is not flat for the entire range, but it behaves as constant above crossover - this is good.
For reference I have a full Revel Performa3 surround setup, have also owned both the JBL 705 and 708 (which I was able to test side by side to the Genelecs and the Revels) and also an assortment of DIY models. All of these sound similar in a way, as the measurements would indicate - not to be confused with "identical".

Just don't treat them like your average home studio user and cram them on a desk near a wall or a corner.
 

maty

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Been looking to purchase a system for the home office and wondering if anyone would consider Genelec to be comparable with a high end audio setup? ...

Better idea loudspeakers, active or passive, with front bass-reflex or closed box.
 
OP
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leonroy

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Basically I'm wondering if the Genelec 8050A will compete with the speakers I used to own (KEF Reference Model Four) a few years ago (but alas had to sell once kids came onto the scene).

Here's a cross section of it, it was an incredible loudspeaker:
1570371005055.png


It had excellent measurements as you can see below:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-series-model-four-loudspeaker-measurements

1570370529269.png


1570370587629.png



Looking at the Genelec 8050A's specs here showing the FR and horizontal response if I'm reading the results correctly the 8050A goes nearly as deep as the KEF but not quite. And it seems to have slightly worse horizontal directivity. Am I reading that correctly?

If so will it be close-ish to what I had in the past?

1570370486092.png
 

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GrimSurfer

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Bass roll-off is a little sharper with the Genelecs, but that's an issue of cabinet and driver size. Still impressive though.

The Genelecs might seem a little softer in the mid bass, were a side by side comparison made. OTOH, the Genelecs are impressively flat. Some may see this as a bad thing relative to the Harman curve. Others may see this as a good thing. YMMV.

The biggest issue, however, is faulty memory. What you believe the KEFs sounded like and what they did sound like might be different.

The distortion of time can be a powerful thing.
 

tmtomh

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+/-3dB is pretty poor specs, just sayin'
What is it between, say, 70 Hz and 20 kHz ?

+/-3dB is poor for an amplifier or source component, but it's a long-time standard for speakers and is a plenty narrow range for any transducer - transducers, at least given present technology, cannot be expected to be as accurate or low in distortion as upstream (or in the case of a microphone, downstream) components.
 

Ron Texas

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+/-3dB is poor for an amplifier or source component, but it's a long-time standard for speakers and is a plenty narrow range for any transducer - transducers, at least given present technology, cannot be expected to be as accurate or low in distortion as upstream (or in the case of a microphone, downstream) components.

Most solid state amplifiers are flat or nearly flat 20 to 20k. It's not uncommon to see a slight roll off at 20k, but usually much less than -3db.
 

tmtomh

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Most solid state amplifiers are flat or nearly flat 20 to 20k. It's not uncommon to see a slight roll off at 20k, but usually much less than -3db.

Yes I know - my point is that an amp or source component should be expected to be up or down much less than 3dB throughout the entire audible range, but +/-3dB is not a poor spec/excessively wide tolerance for a speaker.
 

LTig

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Bass roll-off is a little sharper with the Genelecs, but that's an issue of cabinet and driver size.
That's EQ. Typical bass extension works as follows (as an example let's assume the speakers -3dB cutoff without EQ is at 40 Hz):
  • Increase the bass below 40 Hz with a low order filter: this pushes the 3dB cutoff frequency lower, lets say to 30 Hz. How far down you can/want to go depends on the maximum required SPL.
  • Decrease the bass below 30 Hz with a high order filter (the sharp roll off): this ensures that the speaker need not handle frequencies it cannot emit anyway. It reduces both the power to be handled by the speaker (less heat dissipation in the voice coil) and the cone excursion (lower IMD).
There are speakers where the cutoff has been moved down a lot. To still be able to play loud the cutoff frequency is dynamically shifted up when the SPL reaches a limit which the woofer can not handle safely. I
You can see this when the FR of such a speaker is measured at different SPLs. In such a case the FR for high SPLs has a higher cutoff or less deep bass than at lower SPLs. I've seen such behaviour in tests of an active hifi speaker (can't remember which one).
 

audiophool

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The 8050 can't compete. KEF Model 4 has way higher dynamic capabilities. You'd need to look at models like the 8361, S360, and 1237.
 

Julf

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The 8050 can't compete. KEF Model 4 has way higher dynamic capabilities. You'd need to look at models like the 8361, S360, and 1237.

"Dynamic capabilities"? As in not being able to go as loud?
 

Julf

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I suspect a lot of the actives are protected like that. With actives I am more concerned about the proprietary electronics failing.

My active Genelecs are still doing fine after 20 years of pretty much daily use.
 
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