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Genelec Global Launch Event - Facebook livestream today at 19:00 GMT

JJB70

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On amplifiers, I used Yamaha as an example as a company offering good performing amplifiers for modest cost which are readily available from dealers. Not sure if I'll buy Yamaha though. I love the old school tank like qualities and VU meters of their higher end stereo amps like the AS1100 and AS2100 but not sure the joy goes more than skin deep. The AS201 through to the AS801 seem to pack good performance at their respective price points and are not expensive. I quite like the Cyrus One HD, OK I don't think it sounds better than cheaper alternatives but it is pretty powerful and well featured and has quite a hefty and solid build. And I like the basic compact form factor looks. That's Class D, but I feel a bit more comfortable with that. Weirdly enough, and I know I'm often critical of Paul McGowan and all his bollox spin, I quite like the Sprout 100. It's nicely designed on the outside at least, compact and pretty well featured. ELAC make a promising looking compact amp with impressive speakers which I'd like to check out too.
For speakers I am leaning toward Harbeth M30.1's which sound fabulous to my ears, have lovely retro looks and feel like a quality product. And importantly, they have WAF (Mrs JJB doesn't like the price, but she complimented the looks).
 

Soniclife

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For speakers I am leaning toward Harbeth M30.1's which sound fabulous to my ears, have lovely retro looks and feel like a quality product.
Second hand may help with the price, passive speakers make great 2nd hand buys. I've not heard the 30.1, really like the shld5+.
 

Hephaestus

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Genelec has published 8351B manual with more measurements:


Power response added:
8351B.png


Group delay here:
GD 8351B.png

I am slightly disappointed. Expected to see something like S360 has - which seems to have the "most accurate" bass from the Genelec product range... (speaking of time domain)
 

audiophool

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I am slightly disappointed. Expected to see something like S360 has - which seems to have the "most accurate" bass from the Genelec product range... (speaking of time domain)

What do you mean? Group delay of 8351B looks lower to me.
 

TimVG

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Genelec has published 8351B manual with more measurements:

I am slightly disappointed. Expected to see something like S360 has - which seems to have the "most accurate" bass from the Genelec product range... (speaking of time domain)

Any room will swamp whatever the speaker is doing below a couple of hundred Hz.
 

Hephaestus

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What do you mean? Group delay of 8351B looks lower to me.
You are absolutely right. My eyeball was misaligned! Anyways GD for 8531B starts to rise earlier, around 600Hz as for S360 it starts to rise around 150Hz.
I should have used word mid/upper bass instead ;)

Any room will swamp whatever the speaker is doing below a couple of hundred Hz.
Interesting that we have here hundreds of members who are enthusiastic about miniscule performance increases in DACs which are most like inaudible. Group delay, which starts to rise at 600Hz is around transition area or just above it and might be audible. There is a research paper available which suggests that HAS is able to distinguish timing differences of 6 microseconds and above.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d9bf/d506271a8c38cf0f77e6edfbffebf5e368b6.pdf

Audible or not - I am personally interested in engineering p0rn and always impressed when boundaries can be pushed!
 
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Ilkka Rissanen

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You are absolutely right. My eyeball was misaligned! Anyways GD for 8531B starts to rise earlier, around 600Hz as for S360 it starts to rise around 150Hz.
I should have used word mid/upper bass instead ;)
Please notice that the group delay graphs for the S360 and 8351B are not 100% comparable. S360 graph includes the latency (input to output) which is about 5 ms. In the 8351B graph the latency has been removed. So, in order to compare them, you need to subtract the 5 ms latency for the S360. Your initial conclusion is correct, the S360 has the least group delay variation (and therefore flattest phase response as well) as a function of frequency which is the most important thing when it comes to subjective perception.
 

Juhazi

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Please notice that the group delay graphs for the S360 and 8351B are not 100% comparable. S360 graph includes the latency (input to output) which is about 5 ms. In the 8351B graph the latency has been removed. So, in order to compare them, you need to subtract the 5 ms latency for the S360. Your initial conclusion is correct, the S360 has the least group delay variation (and therefore flattest phase response as well) as a function of frequency which is the most important thing when it comes to subjective perception.

I agree of the bolded, but I've been told that I am totally wrong... Ilkka, please tell a bit more about this!

A two-way always has less group delay than a 3-way, and LR2 has half of that of LR4.
Alas, to me it looks like in 8351B above tweeter is one cycle ahead of midrange!
 

kaka89

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How does Genelec compare to Dutch & Dutch 8C?

8C is my dream speaker and I wonder are there any Genelec model I should consider as well.
 

pierre

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How does Genelec compare to Dutch & Dutch 8C?

8C is my dream speaker and I wonder are there any Genelec model I should consider as well.
I guess it depends what you want: 1238, 8361 or S360 have different characteristics that may match what you want.
 

Juhazi

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D&D 8c has unique directivity in midrange because of it's cardioid radiation pattern. It will most likely sound very much different from any Genelec.

However Genelec has lately released a new tower double subwoofer https://www.genelec.com/w371a , that is also capable of cardioid resonse in upper bass. Paired to a matching monitor with GLM+SAM could make it sound much the same as D&D, but with much higher spl capacity.

https://www.genelec.fi/sites/defaul...nitors/genelec_the_ones_brochure_2019_web.pdf

w371-1024x475.jpg
 

Gnasherrr

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i have been using my 8351bs for a month now. and i have ditched my GLM dsp and went for REW+EQ APO. i have found that comparing to my ISEMCON 7150 the GLM mic's measurement result can be very off in lots of cases. I noticed it by importing GLM measurements into REW and do EQ with that and use my ear to check the flatness of frequency response using a tone generator. The results from REW+EQ APO+third party measurement mic has definitely been better for me. other than that im very happy with the speakers.
On the side note, I would appreciate if genelec allows GLM to do a post DSP measurement to verify the frequency response. Currently there's no way to do that, which makes the post glm calibration FR purely theoretical and not verified.
Here is my pre vs post DSP 1/6 oct smoothed FR measurements just for fun.
 

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Hephaestus

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Ilkka Rissanen

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I agree of the bolded, but I've been told that I am totally wrong... Ilkka, please tell a bit more about this!

A two-way always has less group delay than a 3-way, and LR2 has half of that of LR4.
Alas, to me it looks like in 8351B above tweeter is one cycle ahead of midrange!
Hi,

You are now thinking about conventional passive systems. Active systems with DSP do not follow such rules and there are much more variables at play. Group delay, impulse response etc can be modified freely.

8351B mid to tweeter crossover is at 2800 Hz. There is no delay offset between them as you can see from the measurement you quoted. :)
 
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