Genelec GLM Review (Room EQ & Setup)

[Tangband]

The only significant break-in is the owners ears.

In some way its true, but not entirely. Please read this paper by SB acoustics :

https://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Measuring-Thiele-Small-parameters.pdf

”Prior to measuring T/S parameters, the drive unit should be broken in – for two reasons. If the suspension of the drive unit is not broken in, its compliance will slightly increase during the measurement, thus affecting/distorting the results. Furthermore, eventually the drive unit will end up being broken in (it actually does not take that long), which is why it is recommended to use T/S parameters that apply for a broken-in drive unit when calculating box volumes and tuning frequencies. The free air resonance frequency typically drops about 10-15% during break-in, as the suspension compliance increases. This directly affects the Q-factors and the equivalent volume.”

This is from techtalk:

After 13 hours break-in the differences seems to settle . The fs after 0 hours break in was 46 Hz, after 13 hours it was 38,5 Hz.

 

[Hmast]

Hi,

Is it possible to setup a specific subwoofer crossover for front speakers (e.g. 60hz) while having a higher crossover for surround channels (e.g. 90hz)?
Most AV receivers allow this, I don't see a way to do that in GLM4 but I'm still on a stereo setup at that time.

 

[Trell]

Hi,

Is it possible to setup a specific subwoofer crossover for front speakers (e.g. 60hz) while having a higher crossover for surround channels (e.g. 90hz)?
Most AV receivers allow this, I don't see a way to do that in GLM4 but I'm still on a stereo setup at that time.

When defining your SAM group you can for Bass Management select Global or Individual. A right-mouse click on each monitor gives you the option to select the crossover for that monitor.

 

[Hmast]

When defining your SAM group you can for Bass Management select Global or Individual. A right-mouse click on each monitor gives you the option to select the crossover for that monitor.

OMG, I'm so used to tuning the same things again and again for weeks I couldn't see the obvious . Thanks.

 

[Trell]

OMG, I'm so used to tuning the same things again and again for weeks I couldn't see the obvious . Thanks.

You can also edit your existing group and then recalibrate with the new crossovers.

 

[mkt]

Is there a rule of thumb for picking crossover points? Taking room modes into account? Etc?

 

[Trell]

Is there a rule of thumb for picking crossover points? Taking room modes into account? Etc?

A 80 Hz crossover is a good starting point as many can’t localize the subwoofer then. But that assumes that your speakers can go that low, which is not always the case.

For my 2.1 desktop systems I used a 95 Hz crossover as then I mostly could avoid a big and wide null below that for the monitors. This was based upon measurements. Similar for my HT.

For me measurements was important for selecting the crossover as well as the capability of monitors/speakers. And listening as well.

 

[Hmast]

It's also useful to see whether you have a dip in the bass region. If you have your main speakers with a dip at 60hz and the subwoofer not, it can be interesting to have the subwoofer cover that dip and therefore set the crossover ~20hz above (80hz). Or the opposite (my case): if your sub has a dip around 60hz and your speakers not, you can set the crossover at 50hz so the global answer is flat.

 

[Trell]

It's also useful to see whether you have a dip in the bass region. If you have your main speakers with a dip at 60hz and the subwoofer not, it can be interesting to have the subwoofer cover that dip and therefore set the crossover ~20hz above (80hz). Or the opposite (my case): if your sub has a dip around 60hz and your speakers not, you can set the crossover at 50hz so the global answer is flat.

It’s worth noting that Genelec uses a steep 48 db/octave for their crossovers, something AVRs and similar don’t do. That makes it easier to avoid bass dips by using a crossover.

 

[mkt]

It's also useful to see whether you have a dip in the bass region. If you have your main speakers with a dip at 60hz and the subwoofer not, it can be interesting to have the subwoofer cover that dip and therefore set the crossover ~20hz above (80hz). Or the opposite (my case): if your sub has a dip around 60hz and your speakers not, you can set the crossover at 50hz so the global answer is flat.

So my main speakers have dip (room mode?) around 75 Hz.

And not so much in the sub?

Would that suggest trying a a crossover at 95 Hz? Currently I am using 85 Hz and it looks like this in REW

 

[Hmast]

90hz or 95hz should be a bit better but don't go above if your sub isn't between the speakers or you might notice some bass coming from a side.

Check whether a 90-95db crossover makes your frequency response better. If it only makes it slightly better I'm not sure you can ever feel the difference and in that case I would prefer your current 85hz crossover over a 95hz one in regards of potential directivity issues.

 

[nnitr]

I‘m currently in the market for a new speaker system for my living room and the Genelec S360 are on top of my list right now, but I have some concerns regarding GLM and sub integration, for which I hope this is the right place to post.

I would like to keep using my Arendal 1S Sub for a start. I can use the onboard DSP for low pass filter, but can set the slope of the LPF only to 24 dB/oct and I believe the Genelec system works with 48 dB/oct. Would that be a deal-breaker or „just“ not optimal? It is correct, that I can use the high pass filter of the GLM system without a Genelec sub, right?

And is it possible with the GLM system to „check“ the manual subwoofer integration? Or would I have to buy another measuring microphone for that?

Thanks a lot!

 

[stevenswall]

I‘m currently in the market for a new speaker system for my living room and the Genelec S360 are on top of my list right now, but I have some concerns regarding GLM and sub integration, for which I hope this is the right place to post.

I would like to keep using my Arendal 1S Sub for a start. I can use the onboard DSP for low pass filter, but can set the slope of the LPF only to 24 dB/oct and I believe the Genelec system works with 48 dB/oct. Would that be a deal-breaker or „just“ not optimal? It is correct, that I can use the high pass filter of the GLM system without a Genelec sub, right?

And is it possible with the GLM system to „check“ the manual subwoofer integration? Or would I have to buy another measuring microphone for that?

Thanks a lot!

It would work but you might have to EQ the high end around 60-80hz on the sub as it will overlap with the S360.

GLM won't measure the sub as it generates test tones via the GLM network and ethernet ports which the Adrenal won't communicate with. You'll have to get another mic and use REW to check the integration.

If you have a receiver, I'd have that handle the crossover and set the S360 to full range and use GLM to help with the midbass and some bass frequencies and leave the stuff under 70-80hz to the sub and the receiver.

 

[Ecksbocks]

I‘m currently in the market for a new speaker system for my living room and the Genelec S360 are on top of my list right now, but I have some concerns regarding GLM and sub integration, for which I hope this is the right place to post.

I would like to keep using my Arendal 1S Sub for a start. I can use the onboard DSP for low pass filter, but can set the slope of the LPF only to 24 dB/oct and I believe the Genelec system works with 48 dB/oct. Would that be a deal-breaker or „just“ not optimal? It is correct, that I can use the high pass filter of the GLM system without a Genelec sub, right?

And is it possible with the GLM system to „check“ the manual subwoofer integration? Or would I have to buy another measuring microphone for that?

Thanks a lot!

Integration is everything when it comes to subwoofers. If you plan using GLM - get a Genelec subwoofer. The ease of use and perfect integration is worth the money. Thats just my opinion of course, but i cant see the point with really good monitors paired with an just ok integrated subwoofer, as the monitors always will sound better without a sub. Using the subwoofer strictly as LFE speaker is another story.

 

[Hmast]

as the monitors always will sound better without a sub.

In a perfectly treated room yes, not in a room with dips. Having 1 or 2 subs allows for a flexible placement and therefore the possibility to flatten the response where an EQ cannot correct dips below 100hz.

 

[Ecksbocks]

In a perfectly treated room yes, not in a room with dips. Having 1 or 2 subs allows for a flexible placement and therefore the possibility to flatten the response where an EQ cannot correct dips below 100hz.

Agreed, good point! I fact that's the case in my room.

I would argue that good integration is even more important in when making up for that.

 

[Hmast]

Hi, I was wondering about 2 subs setups:

Let's say you have a dip at 60hz with the sub in the corner and you add a second sub anywhere in the room that fill that dip.

Will GLM make sure the different frequency response of both sum will fuse to make a global flat frequency response? Or will it try to EQ each of the sub and "that's it".
If EQing is independant for each sub, I don't see how we can end up with a flat fq response in the end. Because both subs will have dips in their fq response, those dips will miss 3dB as only one sub compensates for those dips.

So one solution would be that GLM adds +3dB on each dip to compensate but to do that it has to know what the dips of the other subs are.

 

[Kervel]

Hi, I was wondering about 2 subs setups:

Let's say you have a dip at 60hz with the sub in the corner and you add a second sub anywhere in the room that fill that dip.

Will GLM make sure the different frequency response of both sum will fuse to make a global flat frequency response? Or will it try to EQ each of the sub and "that's it".
If EQing is independant for each sub, I don't see how we can end up with a flat fq response in the end. Because both subs will have dips in their fq response, those dips will miss 3dB as only one sub compensates for those dips.

So one solution would be that GLM adds +3dB on each dip to compensate but to do that it has to know what the dips of the other subs are.

GLM time aligns each sub with a speaker and then optimizes independently. This is a pity, because depending on phase the subs will either sum or (partly) cancel out. The summed response might even be less flat than that of a single sub in the main listening position.

 

[Hmast]

Ok that's what I feared.

Therefore it's best to buy the biggest sub possible and find its best placement, then "GLM-ize" it.

 

[mkt]

Regarding multiple subs, there's this on the Genelec site, which I interpret as meaning that it is possible to position additional subs so as to fill in dips but you're on your own to figure out the placement.

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...enefits-of-having-one-or-multiple-subwoofers-