Genelec 8361a vs 8351b

[Pearljam5000]

When do you make your move?

When I'll have enough $$$

 

[Sancus]

The question is always just how much low bass do you need, that's where the limit is for all these speakers. On a desktop, my speakers are 0.5m away and it would be ridiculous to use 8351s or 8361s, the 8331s I have are plenty and they never limit. They take up a reasonable amount of space.

I listen to 8351s at 2.5m and I have to push one to 110dB at the listening position for the limiter to trigger, which is an unsafe level without hearing protection. That's only ONE speaker. The difference is that I have subs.

IMO subs are a basic requirement for seriously good sound and I'll never understand why people are so fixated on avoiding them, especially not with small speakers, which even the 8361s still are. The only no-sub Genelec setup that makes any sense to me is with W371As. You don't have to buy Genelec subs either, they're a nice convenience but it's pretty easy to equal or exceed their performance with a manual setup because GLM sub support is very basic.

And yes manual setup takes some learning and effort, but again IMO if you are spending this kind of money on speakers you owe it to yourself to get a UMIK1 and learn how to measure so that you can confirm you're achieving the results you wanted.

 

[ilikesound]

The question is always just how much low bass do you need, that's where the limit is for all these speakers. On a desktop, my speakers are 0.5m away and it would be ridiculous to use 8351s or 8361s, the 8331s I have are plenty and they never limit. They take up a reasonable amount of space.

I listen to 8351s at 2.5m and I have to push one to 110dB at the listening position for the limiter to trigger, which is an unsafe level without hearing protection. That's only ONE speaker. The difference is that I have subs.

IMO subs are a basic requirement for seriously good sound and I'll never understand why people are so fixated on avoiding them, especially not with small speakers, which even the 8361s still are. The only no-sub Genelec setup that makes any sense to me is with W371As. You don't have to buy Genelec subs either, they're a nice convenience but it's pretty easy to equal or exceed their performance with a manual setup because GLM sub support is very basic.

And yes manual setup takes some learning and effort, but again IMO if you are spending this kind of money on speakers you owe it to yourself to get a UMIK1 and learn how to measure so that you can confirm you're achieving the results you wanted.

I will be listening at 1m or maybe 1.5m, that is now final. You say they are loud, but some people say here that they start clipping with edm. Thats where my dillema comes. Im not after insane spl but i do like to listen loud sometimes and the fact that people are telling me it is not loud enough for edm is a big deal for me as ill spend alot of money on them.
Thanks!

 

[Purité Audio]

Loudness won’t be an issue at those distances, I would get a sub or two for ‘full-range’.
Keith

 

[tmtomh]

You’re not going to clip 8351b’s at 1.5M no matter the type of music. Your ears will clip - and worse - first.

 

[sleepy.sock]

One thing to bear in mind is that the 8361s have quite a bit of self generated noise. It is audible if you sit very close to them. I can hear it on mine at 1m, and it sounds like a gentle fan. It is completely inaudible in far field listening. Smaller models like the 8341 or 8331 have little or no self noise in near field use as they are designed specifically for this application.

For me that would be a deal breaker for using 8361s for near field listening on a desk, quite apart from everything else. You will probably be fine at 1.5m but if you plan to be really close - say around 1m - you should expect to experience some noise.

 

[Kain]

One thing to bear in mind is that the 8361s have quite a bit of self generated noise. It is audible if you sit very close to them. I can hear it on mine at 1m, and it sounds like a gentle fan. It is completely inaudible in far field listening. Smaller models like the 8341 or 8331 have little or no self noise in near field use as they are designed specifically for this application.

For me that would be a deal breaker for using 8361s for near field listening on a desk, quite apart from everything else. You will probably be fine at 1.5m but if you plan to be really close - say around 1m - you should expect to experience some noise.

What about the 8351B? How much self-generated noise does that have?

You stated that the 8361A should be fine at 1.5 meters so I guess I will be absolutely fine at around 2 meters?

 

[sleepy.sock]

I have never used 8351s so can’t say. I reckon anything over 1m for 8361s should be fine but it’s a very personal thing and also depends on how quiet your room is.

 

[Tisca]

61 owner here since early this year, read through all posts. Going to try to remember what I wanted to say.

I chose the 61s over the 51's because:

• If I don't go all in I'm going to be wondering if the bigger ones wouldn't be a bit better. (didn't quite work),
• I got a good deal, the difference to 51s was so small it made no sense. Resale value is going to be better
• couldn't run a sub in this space because of neighbors so what I get from mains is what I have.

Reasons I sometimes wish I had gone 51 or even 41:

• If I'd want a sub or Atmos setup, it would be easier/cheaper to build around smaller ones
• When I get a bigger space I'm going to look into getting W371s, where the extra low end in the 61 is no use
• separate sub(s) with placement choices away from mains can help you with room modes
• F**k these are huge!

Things to consider:

• there's more 61s for sale on the 2nd hand market than 51b's. At least in my area. Did they regret their purchase or are they people who want to try the best of everything?
• I'm running the signal digitally (AES) all the way to the 61s in a treated room and let me tell you, a lot of music is made badly and I can hear it now. For mostly listening to music one should consider more HiFi sweetening sounding speakers
• You will not get an optimal listening environment unless you build the listening space from ground up for that purpose or have very high ceilings and space to sacrifice for treatment. You need thiccc material to fix room nulls.
• don't try to put them on a desk, Too big.
• EDM kick drum fundamentals are under and above 100Hz, depending on if you want to feel it in your chest or in your stomach. Don't worry too much about the lowest frequencies. I'd still get a bass tho.

 

[sleepy.sock]

They are huge. Photos of them can’t really prepare you for it.

 

[sleepy.sock]

Also agree you will hear errors in recordings, even recent stuff that looks apparently well mixed and mastered.

 

[ilikesound]

Hello all! Thanks for your help. Im getting the 8361a’s delivered tomorrow (i will use them in a bigger room mid field).
Now i have another question: I currently have uad apollo twin mk2 which only has analog outs. I think going digital is the way. Can someone please recommend me some usb to aes solutions? I think going for the Genelecs 9320a is a good way to go since genelec atleast in my eyes knows whats best for their monitors. But i cant find any good reviews about it and even if the added benefits of their controller are nice i dont want to be sacrificing audio quality for them.

Thank you in advance,

have a great day!

 

[sleepy.sock]

Congratulations! They are amazing monitors!

There is no point in taking the analog out of the Apollo twin and pushing it through an ADC stage to get a digital signal to send to the monitors -- it defeats the purpose of keeping everything in the digital domain.

You basically want to either (i) send the analog outs from the Apollo to the 8361s (i.e. entirely forget about the AES digital plan); or (ii) replace the Apollo interface with an audio interface that has a digital output (e.g. RME Fireface UCX II) that you can then send on to the 8361s.

Either way, you won't notice any difference in sound. It is really more for OCD than anything else (NB. I couldn't help doing this!).

 

[ilikesound]

Congratulations! They are amazing monitors!

There is no point in taking the analog out of the Apollo twin and pushing it through an ADC stage to get a digital signal to send to the monitors -- it defeats the purpose of keeping everything in the digital domain.

You basically want to either (i) send the analog outs from the Apollo to the 8361s (i.e. entirely forget about the AES digital plan); or (ii) replace the Apollo interface with an audio interface that has a digital output (e.g. RME Fireface UCX II) that you can then send on to the 8361s.

Either way, you won't notice any difference in sound. It is really more for OCD than anything else (NB. I couldn't help doing this!).

thanks, cant wait!

sorry if i wasnt clear enough. I would most definetly like to replace apollo and go digital, not keep it in the chain. Im just asking for recommendation on digital interfaces and opinion on genelecs 8320a and like you said: if its worth it?

 

[sleepy.sock]

The 9320a isn't an audio interface, so if you need to connect mics or instruments, you won't be able to use it for this purpose. If it's just for listening to audio coming from the computer, it's a very nice option.

 

[ilikesound]

The 9320a isn't an audio interface, so if you need to connect mics or instruments, you won't be able to use it for this purpose. If it's just for listening to audio coming from the computer, it's a very nice option.

Yes, I forgot to mention that too! I only need something to listen to audio coming from the computer. I thought that is called an audio interface aswell. Do you have any experience with 9320?

Thanks

 

[MAB]

thanks, cant wait!

sorry if i wasnt clear enough. I would most definetly like to replace apollo and go digital, not keep it in the chain. Im just asking for recommendation on digital interfaces and opinion on genelecs 8320a and like you said: if its worth it?

The digital vs. analog input performance is not audible or measurable.
I wouldn't worry about this, and would more focus on getting them set up and listening. Measuring and dialing in with GLM, or whatever. If you are happy with the Apollo Twin, no reason to replace it and would be a waste of good money.

 

[ilikesound]

The digital vs. analog input performance is not audible or measurable.
I wouldn't worry about this, and would more focus on getting them set up and listening. Measuring and dialing in with GLM, or whatever. If you are happy with the Apollo Twin, no reason to replace it and would be a waste of good money.

thats the thing- apollo is the only interface i ever had and I cant compare it to anything else. I read that it does not really have the best audio input. And thats why im asking.

Thanks

 

[MAB]

thats the thing- apollo is the only interface i ever had and I cant compare it to anything else. I read that it does not really have the best audio input. And thats why im asking.

Thanks

It seems very competent:

Universal Audio Apollo Twin X Review (Audio Interface)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the UA Twin X Quad (also comes in Duo). It was kingly sent to me by the company for testing. The Quad version as I have costs US $1,400. The Duo version is cheaper. This designation refers to the number of cores for internal DSP which performs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I wouldn't consider the Apollo Twin or the analog vs. digital inputs on these speakers to be anything but transparent.
I think your equipment is good.

 

[tmtomh]

Hello all! Thanks for your help. Im getting the 8361a’s delivered tomorrow (i will use them in a bigger room mid field).
Now i have another question: I currently have uad apollo twin mk2 which only has analog outs. I think going digital is the way. Can someone please recommend me some usb to aes solutions? I think going for the Genelecs 9320a is a good way to go since genelec atleast in my eyes knows whats best for their monitors. But i cant find any good reviews about it and even if the added benefits of their controller are nice i dont want to be sacrificing audio quality for them.

Thank you in advance,

have a great day!

How far away are your Genelecs going to be from your USB source? If it's not a long run, like maybe 10 feet or less, then the cheapest and simplest method is a USB to digital coax converter plus a a coax to AES cable to get from that box to your Genelecs' digital input. I use this to get from the USB output of my computer music server to a digital coax output:

PO100 Pro

Foshan ShuangMuSanLin electronics Co., LTD. founded in 2009 which located in Shenzhen, China. And our branch company VMV Technology(HK) Company Limited registered in HK in 2013. Our company is specialized in the audio DAC, stereo headphone amplifier, power amplifier, and with own R&D...

www.smsl-audio.com

I then run the aforementioned coax to AES cable into my 8351b's - in fact, my run is only 6 feet so I just use a $10 analogue RCA to XLR cable and it works totally fine. The only difference is impedance - the analogue cable is 75 ohm while a dedicated digital converter cable is 110 ohm. That matters for data transmission integrity with long runs, but for short runs it's irrelevant.