Genelec 8361A vs 8351B

[Dgob]

That's good it hasn't impacted you. Do you use the sound profiler with GLM? I use that to provide some bass tilt.

Let's say you're playing a movie or music averaging 85dB. This doesn't cause issue, because it's the peaks that will cause distortion.

+15dB will handle the peaks, as most music seems to be around there according to the dynamic range database.

+10 dB for bass tilt, which is what most speakers seem to do if you extended the line to 20hz and what many prefer.

If the 7360 can do 110dB peaks at 20hz, perhaps it's fine. Might struggle in a larger room just comparing it to the 7271 that claims 123dB peaks instead of 114dB peaks. The protection light came on sometimes when people turned things up. Less so now as I've put limits on it and the speakers.

Yes, I have used sound profiler but am now trusting the original GLM settings more. I suspect some of this is down to other adjustments in my system.

Also, yes, definitely think a bigger room and/or higher SPL would prove a challenge for the 7360A driving the 8361A's. However, the single 7360A is proving a challenge for my small/medium listening space. I've battened down the hatches, but still in the process of managing the excess bass response in my listening room, which has only been exasperated by my use of the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, which seems to produce much deeper bass response than my Gustard or Topping.

I've definitely got some experimenting ahead.

 

[james_o]

This is quite an old thread, but has anyone reached a conclusion?
In my country the price gap between 8351b and 8361a is only around $1500 so I'm wondering what would really be the optimal answer.
My listening distance is 1.5m and I only need 85~95dBSPL, so the maximum SPL of 8361a isn't really needed.

My question is, IF 8361a is only $1500 more expansive than 8351b, what would you choose between the two?

 

[1231rq32r1qw32r]

Is the price difference is so small, get the big ones. You certainly don’t need them at 1.5m but if you have the money it would safe guard you in the even you ever need something much louder

 

[tifune]

This is quite an old thread, but has anyone reached a conclusion?
In my country the price gap between 8351b and 8361a is only around $1500 so I'm wondering what would really be the optimal answer.
My listening distance is 1.5m and I only need 85~95dBSPL, so the maximum SPL of 8361a isn't really needed.

My question is, IF 8361a is only $1500 more expansive than 8351b, what would you choose between the two?

Use the extra $ for subs.

 

[Absolute]

Bigger is generally better all else equal because the directivity control extends lower (around 200 hz eyeballing the globals) and you gain capacity. Capacity is underrated.
8351b measures a teeny bit better above 1 kHz, but if that's enough to make it preferable is a good question.

I would pick the bigger one because I'm done with toys.

 

[al2002]

This is quite an old thread, but has anyone reached a conclusion?
In my country the price gap between 8351b and 8361a is only around $1500 so I'm wondering what would really be the optimal answer.
My listening distance is 1.5m and I only need 85~95dBSPL, so the maximum SPL of 8361a isn't really needed.

My question is, IF 8361a is only $1500 more expansive than 8351b, what would you choose between the two?

If you can afford it, then the 8361 is the obvious choice.

 

[srrxr71]

The KH310 like all free standing speaker with a woofer far from the floor is the generation of floor cancelation.
You will never have a good bass reproduction without one or two sub.

In studio, a console block the floor cancelation.

So here’s the problem I am having. Definitely ceiling cancellation at 100Hz region. Fine I can treat the ceiling. But the floor is a problem.

So I can cross over at 100Hz and let the sun take over. But lower like 60-75Hz sounds better. So no matter what with these we will have to deal with some cancellation at or around 100Hz. Alternatively will have to cross over at 100Hz.

 

[srrxr71]

The Genelec chart in question is frequently misinterpreted. What it shows is the critical distance in specific example rooms. The critical distance is indeed where the direct sound is louder than reflections.

However, the critical distance(using the shortcut formula Genelec uses, it's very complex to calculate perfectly) "is affected by the room volume, the room reverberation time, and the directivity of the monitor." (see definition of critical distance at bottom right).

Genelec Ones all have very similar directivity, all that's happening is that they're calculating it for differently sized rooms based on how loud they can play, so in fact there is little if any difference in the speakers' critical distances.

In general, you can assume the narrower a speaker's dispersion, the longer the critical distance can be in any room. But there needs to be quite a significant directivity difference to affect this. Most people's typical 3-4m HiFi listening is NOT within the critical distance, the reverberant sound is dominant.

Yep and where room treatments come in.

 

[srrxr71]

Thanks, what SPL levels are you typically listening? Amir mentioned the 8341 not being loud enough, what has been your ecperience? Does running the 7360 raise the output of the 8341s to any noticable degree?

Is the screengrab of the frequency graph above taken from GLM? It would be good to see the whole thing if possible!

Apologies for all the questions, I am considering a similar setup.

I know you didn’t ask me, but I have 8341 and 2x 7360.

It’s not enough for my living space. It was a costly mistake. I wanted the smaller appearance and it was fine for my old desktop based setup.

For my living room/couch situation it simply isn’t cutting it. I’m about 9 feet from each. I can barely get 93-97dBa at best. It goes into protection constantly while listening. Even the subs go into clipping. Crossover is at 100Hz.

That’s why i’m on this thread reading. Really I wish I just bought 8351b and I would not need to read this thread possibly.

Now afraid of making this mistake again I will just most likely get the 8361a.

I want the option to cross over lower. The option to listen to some songs at 100+ dB with full dynamics.

The issue is not really even the woofers. The mid/tweeter just can’t handle it. I can play something without any bass and have them go into protection.

Now if you read Amir’s review he states that even the 8361a is held back by the tweeter. So that is the limit here. The 8351b has the same mid/tweeter. So maybe it will be okay for my purposes?

I can’t take the chance again.

Just think about it. It’s only $2k more on an $8k purchase. Yes it all adds up. But it’s double the size and heft. As much as I’ve moved away from that school of audiofoolia, physics are physics.

I really don’t want anything their size in the room honestly but in a bigger space and with a wider placement and black on black panel appearance hopefully I can get them to “disappear”.

Also given that my subs are also clipping I think having them handle upper bass while limiting the subs to lower bass will help them as well.

One thing to keep in mind is that Genelec stuff is class leading but physics still applies.

Buying the 7360 over the 7350 I thought I was covered. Let’s be real here. They are just 10” subs. Laughable to a SVS or Rhythmik user. For good reason. Just because they cost an arm and leg doesn’t make their 10” sub more like a 12”. The only USP of those is the GLM integration. Which is convenient but wow they can and will blow your budget.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I know you didn’t ask me, but I have 8341 and 2x 7360.

It’s not enough for my living space. It was a costly mistake. I wanted the smaller appearance and it was fine for my old desktop based setup.

For my living room/couch situation it simply isn’t cutting it. I’m about 9 feet from each. I can barely get 93-97dBa at best. It goes into protection constantly while listening. Even the subs go into clipping. Crossover is at 100Hz.

That’s why i’m on this thread reading. Really I wish I just bought 8351b and I would not need to read this thread possibly.

Now afraid of making this mistake again I will just most likely get the 8361a.

I want the option to cross over lower. The option to listen to some songs at 100+ dB with full dynamics.

The issue is not really even the woofers. The mid/tweeter just can’t handle it. I can play something without any bass and have them go into protection.

Now if you read Amir’s review he states that even the 8361a is held back by the tweeter. So that is the limit here. The 8351b has the same mid/tweeter. So maybe it will be okay for my purposes?

I can’t take the chance again.

Just think about it. It’s only $2k more on an $8k purchase. Yes it all adds up. But it’s double the size and heft. As much as I’ve moved away from that school of audiofoolia, physics are physics.

I really don’t want anything their size in the room honestly but in a bigger space and with a wider placement and black on black panel appearance hopefully I can get them to “disappear”.

Also given that my subs are also clipping I think having them handle upper bass while limiting the subs to lower bass will help them as well.

One thing to keep in mind is that Genelec stuff is class leading but physics still applies.

Buying the 7360 over the 7350 I thought I was covered. Let’s be real here. They are just 10” subs. Laughable to a SVS or Rhythmik user. For good reason. Just because they cost an arm and leg doesn’t make their 10” sub more like a 12”. The only USP of those is the GLM integration. Which is convenient but wow they can and will blow your budget.

My worry exactly
That's why if the I get the Ones the 8361 is the only way to go

 

[srrxr71]

This is quite an old thread, but has anyone reached a conclusion?
In my country the price gap between 8351b and 8361a is only around $1500 so I'm wondering what would really be the optimal answer.
My listening distance is 1.5m and I only need 85~95dBSPL, so the maximum SPL of 8361a isn't really needed.

My question is, IF 8361a is only $1500 more expansive than 8351b, what would you choose between the two?

As I mentioned above. Just on a material value basis it’s a no brainer.

Then add in the options to lower your crossover frequency. Possibly use without the subs for late night listening.

Just overall versatility.

The downside. The heft and weight.


Also the Genelec stands with plates for it costs roughly $1000 and also are far too tall. That also has to be added into your cost.

Edit: the tall problem is solved by ordering S360-415 stands. The cost problem is not unfortunately.

 

[Sancus]

Now if you read Amir’s review he states that even the 8361a is held back by the tweeter. So that is the limit here. The 8351b has the same mid/tweeter. So maybe it will be okay for my purposes?

The reality is that all music is down by 10-20dB by 5khz, if not more. Peak is pretty much always 50-500hz, depending on the bassiness of the music. Tweeter limiting on sweeps doesn't usually matter unless you're using the speaker for research or something. The 8361A/8351B don't limit until 8khz, and even then, they're still playing 10khz, 98dB@1m. No doubt that the 8341A limits much more in that region, as it has a smaller mid/tweeter and less power.

The midrange and upper bass are much more likely to be the bottleneck. Subwoofers do not help much above their crossover, ESPECIALLY Genelec subs which use an 8th order 48db/oct crossover, so they contribute even less than most subs above the crossover.

A while back someone tested an 8351B with no subs and it hit around 112-113dB @ 1m. Of course, it depends the music. If you play something that has really aggressive peaks in the 150-300hz region where subs don't help, then you will limit earlier. Above that the 8361A/8351B play absurdly loud.

That said, for a stereo pair, I'd probably always go 8361A. For multichannel, it's a bit different, as the large number of speakers adds substantial headroom. And it also changes the cost math

 

[RobL]

As I mentioned above. Just on a material value basis it’s a no brainer.

Then add in the options to lower your crossover frequency. Possibly use without the subs for late night listening.

Just overall versatility.

The downside. The heft and weight.


Also the Genelec stands with plates for it costs roughly $1000 and also are far too tall. That also has to be added into your cost.

I was also in the same dilemma as you, I thought about buying 8341’s with subs but my wife hates subwoofers more than she hates odd looking speakers.
I was going to pull the trigger on 8351’s, which look less obtrusive with their smaller stature and would probably work fine for almost all my listening levels. I just kept remembering something Amir said in a review…”Nobody likes to know the limits of their equipment”…or something along those lines. I do throw the odd party here and it’s a pretty large room. I could envision everyone booing as I scrambled to turn it down when someone lit up the limiters.

I got a very fair price on 8361’s and am waiting for them to show up.

 

[srrxr71]

The reality is that all music is down by 10-20dB by 5khz, if not more. Peak is pretty much always 50-500hz, depending on the bassiness of the music. Tweeter limiting on sweeps doesn't usually matter unless you're using the speaker for research or something. The 8361A/8351B don't limit until 8khz, and even then, they're still playing 10khz, 98dB@1m. No doubt that the 8341A limits much more in that region, as it has a smaller mid/tweeter and less power.

The midrange and upper bass are much more likely to be the bottleneck. Subwoofers do not help much above their crossover, ESPECIALLY Genelec subs which use an 8th order 48db/oct crossover, so they contribute even less than most subs above the crossover.

A while back someone tested an 8351B with no subs and it hit around 112-113dB @ 1m. Of course, it depends the music. If you play something that has really aggressive peaks in the 150-300hz region where subs don't help, then you will limit earlier. Above that the 8361A/8351B play absurdly loud.

That said, for a stereo pair, I'd probably always go 8361A. For multichannel, it's a bit different, as the large number of speakers adds substantial headroom. And it also changes the cost math

Great point. I think the limitation in my case is midbass. Even vocals cause it to go into protection.


I will assume Genelec knew what they were doing when they made the 8361a and put the power into the mid bass where it will be needed by actual musical sources.

112dB at 1m is good but I am 3m away so I suppose that would be 106dB max for me. It’s just about as much as I want but I also want headroom.


Also I have the highs shelved down fairly aggressively which I might bring back up due to extensive room treatment.

I can’t imagine having those beasts in my room. I’ve seen the 8260 once and it is a true beast. It’s massive.


As it is my stands are too high and with those I’d want to lop off 12-18” off the stand height. Of course taller and tilted downward is better than too low and things occluding the wave path.

Also if I listen to Rock music there isn’t that much in the deep bass but there is a lot of mid bass in a lot of recordings.

You’re absolutely right. The subs don’t help much.

 

[srrxr71]

I was also in the same dilemma as you, I thought about buying 8341’s with subs but my wife hates subwoofers more than she hates odd looking speakers.
I was going to pull the trigger on 8351’s, which look less obtrusive with their smaller stature and would probably work fine for almost all my listening levels. I just kept remembering something Amir said in a review…”Nobody likes to know the limits of their equipment”…or something along those lines. I do throw the odd party here and it’s a pretty large room. I could envision everyone booing as I scrambled to turn it down when someone lit up the limiters.

I got a very fair price on 8361’s and am waiting for them to show up.

I agree completely however the party thing I disagree with.

These simply will not throw parties. At least in a good way.

Everything about them is the opposite of a party throwing setup imho.

The sound is perfect in the sweet spot and otherwise lackluster. It’s designed to throw all its energy into that 35 degree cone from the center to your ears. If your ears are not there it’s designed to not throw any direct energy into your ears so you will be hearing reflected sound.

Now my room is fully treated so that is even more the case.

In an untreated room you may be okay but the sweet spot will not be so optimal.

The way I see it throwing a party with these is like taking a scalpel to a sword fight.

I would actually look at a pair of JBL SRX835 for parties. Those fill the room with sound. Oddly enough one of the first members who bought the 8361 used those to throw a party. He may have more insights on the differences first hand.

Can you throw a party with these in a pinch? Maybe it just depends on the expectations of the guests. I’ve been to great parties with a Marshall branded thing in a corner.

I might even point them at a corner for that use for 2 reasons.

Maybe it will reflect off the 2 walls and fill the room.

Those precious mid/tweeters will be protected from mishaps.

 

[Peluvius]

Looks like a party speaker to me....

 

[Pearljam5000]

I mean they are meant to be used as *nearfield* monitors not PA speakers lol

 

[RobL]

I mean they are meant to be used as *nearfield* monitors not PA speakers lol

Mine will definitely be partying on occasion.
I’ll let you know how it works out.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Mine will definitely be partying on occasion.
I’ll let you know how it works out.

Waiting for your updates

 

[srrxr71]

Updates? Such as how many houses over called the cops on you update?

Actually this is one of the best things about these monitors. They are loud in your listening space only. Walk away or go to another room and it’s not that bad. The bass hits sure, but otherwise very tolerable. If you need to keep family members sleeping at night you can switch off the sub or in the case of the beast mode 8361 you can roll off the deep bass in the pEQ. You can just create a group as such and switch at will. GLM is great like that.

So many ways to tinker and compare settings.

I could have one group with crossover at 60 another at 75. Enable and disable subs for testing. Just so versatile.