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Genelec 8361a vs 8351B with Sub?

vocalisto

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Hey Guys,

I'm new to this Forum and this is my first Thread here. I'm a Producer, Singer/Songwriter and do Mixing and Mastering as well. Mainly in the Genres Hip Hop, R&B, Funk, Soul, Pop and sometimes EDM.

I have to make a Decision between Genelec 8361a withoud a Sub and
Genelec 8351B with either 1x 7370 Sub or two 7360 Subs.

I know it always depends on my Room Size, Listening Distance and max SPL. The Room I'm currently in is about 21 qm. So not very big.. and this is just my living Room now. But I'm looking to rent another Room for Studio Purposes only where I can listen loud withoud getting Issues with some annoying Neighbors. I didn't find a Room to rent now and I don't know how big or small the prospective Room will be. But I'm looking for a Room Size around 20-80 qm.

If I go with the 8361a, I can add one or two Subs always later, but if the Room Size is small maybe it's totally overkill? On Speakers I thinks bigger is always better. I've read Speaker Size matters. On the other Hand if I go with the 8351B and one or two Subs I'm more flexible with Speaker Placement and mabye can handle Room Modes better. I also read the 8351B works slightly better in the Nearfield because of more directivity and smoother Midrange..?
I've also read with a smaller Speaker with lesser physical depth can optimize SBIR placement in small rooms easier?

Would be great I you can give some good advice and help me to make the right Decision.
 

q3cpma

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SPL at listening point should be the decider. If you can't measure it, let's take a 85 dB reference and scale it by your listening distance (which is?). The subs will surely make the 8351B very loud, but won't help it reach the same mid bass ability as the 8361A, and these genres are very bass/mid bass heavy, right?

tl;dr state your listening distance and desired SPL.
 

pierre

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I would definitively go for 8351+sub. 2 reasons:
- you will have better freq response and you can move the sub to optimize v.s. Room mode
- EDM mixing requires deep bass and you will be better with a sub for the bass heavy part
@Keith is selling a used 7380 at a very good price on this forum and that could be a good option.

p.
 

richard12511

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The subs will surely make the 8351B very loud, but won't help it reach the same mid bass ability as the 8361A, and these genres are very bass/mid bass heavy, right?

I wouldn't think so, as the subs will likely still reach their limits before the midbass of the 8351b does. I had two 7370s in here at first, and the subs were the limiting factor. Maybe with 2 7380s the 8361s might have some output advantage.

I personally view the 8351b + subs as slightly better than the 8361a + subs, due to the slightly better measurements. Without subs, the 8361 is definitely better. I think it's difficult to predict in some sense, though, as the 8361 is a much larger, and its woofer locations might end up being in more optimal positions. Latter will depend on the room, though, as bass quality is mostly determined by the room and the woofer locations within that room. I think this is a real advantage when paired with W371 in multisub mode.

8361 also looks to control directivity slightly lower, though it's hard to tell exactly how much looking at the polars.

I don't think the difference is large either way.

I would see if I could try both, and see what measures better in your room. Is that at all possible? In terms of volume, the 8351b + subs get well above reference level (@ 3.6m) with no clip lights.
 
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vocalisto

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SPL at listening point should be the decider. If you can't measure it, let's take a 85 dB reference and scale it by your listening distance (which is?). The subs will surely make the 8351B very loud, but won't help it reach the same mid bass ability as the 8361A, and these genres are very bass/mid bass heavy, right?

tl;dr state your listening distance and desired SPL.

my listening Distance is about 2 - 2,5 meters only. I think in this small nearfield both models should work. But if I should go 3 - 3,5 Meter Listening Distance the 8361a I thinks will works better
 
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vocalisto

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I would definitively go for 8351+sub. 2 reasons:
- you will have better freq response and you can move the sub to optimize v.s. Room mode
- EDM mixing requires deep bass and you will be better with a sub for the bass heavy part
@Keith is selling a used 7380 at a very good price on this forum and that could be a good option.

p.

I agree with you but if I'm mixing I often do a low cut at 30Hz otherwise the Mix would take too much energy on small speakers and they distort very quickly. Where is Keith coming from? And what's the Price for the 7380?
 
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vocalisto

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I personally view the 8351b + subs as slightly better than the 8361a + subs, due to the slightly better measurements. Without subs, the 8361 is definitely better.

Did you looked only at measurements or did you try the 8361a with a Sub by your own and compared to the 8351B?

I would see if I could try both, and see what measures better in your room. Is that at all possible?

I've heard them both. But not in the same Room and the exact same listening Position. This would be ideal but unfortunately it isn't possible here. I've heard them in different locations each. The room, acoustic treatment and listening Position will have a massive impact how Speakers gonna sound like.

In terms of volume, the 8351b + subs get well above reference level (@ 3.6m) with no clip lights.

Do you mean this with one or two 7370 Subs? I've heard the 8351B with one 7370 Sub in a very big and very well acoustically treated Home Theater room at 2.5m Listening Distance. And if I was turning the Volume up very high the Clip Lights on the Sub was getting red quickly
 

Pearljam5000

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Did you looked only at measurements or did you try the 8361a with a Sub by your own and compared to the 8351B?



I've heard them both. But not in the same Room and the exact same listening Position. This would be ideal but unfortunately it isn't possible here. I've heard them in different locations each. The room, acoustic treatment and listening Position will have a massive impact how Speakers gonna sound like.



Do you mean this with one or two 7370 Subs? I've heard the 8351B with one 7370 Sub in a very big and very well acoustically treated Home Theater room at 2.5m Listening Distance. And if I was turning the Volume up very high the Clip Lights on the Sub was getting red quickly
Even though not in the same room
What did you feel were the differences? Thanks
 

richard12511

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If you do get an 8361
my listening Distance is about 2 - 2,5 meters only. I think in this small nearfield both models should work. But if I should go 3 - 3,5 Meter Listening Distance the 8361a I thinks will works better

2-2.5m I'd go for the 8351b + subs, even if price is no object. The 8351b measures slightly better than the 8361, and I've never been output limited with the 8351b + subs at 3.5+ m(I've been over 110dB at the listening position).

Situation that I'd go for the 8361 would be one with no external subwoofers, both with and without the W371a(not a sub imo).
 

richard12511

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Did you looked only at measurements or did you try the 8361a with a Sub by your own and compared to the 8351B?

I've never heard the 8361. Price was not an factor for me, but I went for the 8351b because of the slightly better measurements when ignoring bass power and extension.


I've heard them both. But not in the same Room and the exact same listening Position. This would be ideal but unfortunately it isn't possible here. I've heard them in different locations each. The room, acoustic treatment and listening Position will have a massive impact how Speakers gonna sound like.

I agree completely. The room and situation matters so much, which is why I tend to ignore comparisons that are done in different rooms or with different sub situations.


Do you mean this with one or two 7370 Subs? I've heard the 8351B with one 7370 Sub in a very big and very well acoustically treated Home Theater room at 2.5m Listening Distance. And if I was turning the Volume up very high the Clip Lights on the Sub was getting red quickly

I mean with two 7370 subs. My multichannel room is rather large, and my experience was exactly the same as yours. Just as things were starting to get good, the subs would start to give out. Switching from the two 7370s to two JTR RS2s completely eliminated this problem. With these subs, the 8351bs actually give out first, which is above 110dB, and above the levels I listen.
 

pierre

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I agree with you but if I'm mixing I often do a low cut at 30Hz otherwise the Mix would take too much energy on small speakers and they distort very quickly. Where is Keith coming from? And what's the Price for the 7380?

see this Thread.
 
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vocalisto

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I would definitively go for 8351+sub. 2 reasons:
- you will have better freq response and you can move the sub to optimize v.s. Room mode
- EDM mixing requires deep bass and you will be better with a sub for the bass heavy part
@Keith is selling a used 7380 at a very good price on this forum and that could be a good option.

p.

Hey Guys, I just wanted to report back. I've got the 8351B's now here and they really sound good. But last year in October I had the 8361a's also here to test for one week. As I remember the 8361s had a slightly higher Detail resolution and the Transient Response and impulse behavior was like razor sharp contours. I thought it would be the other way around with the 51B's. I have no SAM DSP Subwoofer here right now. Do you think I'll get a higher Detail Resolution and Transient Response if I'll add a Sub like 7360, 7370?
Right now I got only the old analog Sub 7070A here. I didn't contected it to the 51B's. But I'll try that out.
 

YSC

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Hey Guys, I just wanted to report back. I've got the 8351B's now here and they really sound good. But last year in October I had the 8361a's also here to test for one week. As I remember the 8361s had a slightly higher Detail resolution and the Transient Response and impulse behavior was like razor sharp contours. I thought it would be the other way around with the 51B's. I have no SAM DSP Subwoofer here right now. Do you think I'll get a higher Detail Resolution and Transient Response if I'll add a Sub like 7360, 7370?
Right now I got only the old analog Sub 7070A here. I didn't contected it to the 51B's. But I'll try that out.
I somehow think it might just be memory tricking you for the higher end model which you didn't own;) in near field they should not have such difference, and the detail resolution normally occurs at higher frequencies in the mids and highs, so I doubt that it will actually be affected by the woofer size difference in the 8351 vs 8361
 

q3cpma

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Hey Guys, I just wanted to report back. I've got the 8351B's now here and they really sound good. But last year in October I had the 8361a's also here to test for one week. As I remember the 8361s had a slightly higher Detail resolution and the Transient Response and impulse behavior was like razor sharp contours. I thought it would be the other way around with the 51B's. I have no SAM DSP Subwoofer here right now. Do you think I'll get a higher Detail Resolution and Transient Response if I'll add a Sub like 7360, 7370?
Right now I got only the old analog Sub 7070A here. I didn't contected it to the 51B's. But I'll try that out.
I won't respond to the poetry, but it makes sense to compare in a similar situation (GLM), as modal peaks can certainly mask detail. The subs will reduce IMD/THD greatly, not that I can claim this'll be audible if you're not hitting the limiters.
 

richard12511

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I somehow think it might just be memory tricking you for the higher end model which you didn't own;) in near field they should not have such difference, and the detail resolution normally occurs at higher frequencies in the mids and highs, so I doubt that it will actually be affected by the woofer size difference in the 8351 vs 8361

Yeah, with the actual difference in treble response being that small(8361 vs 8351), other factors (memory, expectation bias, mood at the time, how closely you were listening, position, EQ) are going to outweigh the actual differences 100 to 1. I do think the better measurements of the 8351 are a little overblown, though. Looking at the two side by side right now, and while the 8351 is a little better, it really is a tiny difference. Maybe not even audible.

Personally, I'm really not comfortable comparing subjective speaker impressions of my own with anything except same room, same position, really fast switching, unless the differences are large.
 

richard12511

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Hey Guys, I just wanted to report back. I've got the 8351B's now here and they really sound good. But last year in October I had the 8361a's also here to test for one week. As I remember the 8361s had a slightly higher Detail resolution and the Transient Response and impulse behavior was like razor sharp contours. I thought it would be the other way around with the 51B's. I have no SAM DSP Subwoofer here right now. Do you think I'll get a higher Detail Resolution and Transient Response if I'll add a Sub like 7360, 7370?
Right now I got only the old analog Sub 7070A here. I didn't contected it to the 51B's. But I'll try that out.

Given the small price difference between the two(relative to the price of the speakers), I don't think price should be a factor. I would get what you think sounds better. Can you get them side by side?
 
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vocalisto

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Given the small price difference between the two(relative to the price of the speakers), I don't think price should be a factor. I would get what you think sounds better. Can you get them side by side?

Hey Guys I just wanted to report back. I've decided to send the 8351B's back and get the bigger Ones 8361's! I didn't had the Chance to compare those two Models Side by Side in the same room in the same Position. I've had those two models here in the same room on the same Position but seperately. So I can compare them only by my memories subjective.

To me the 8351B and the 8361a really don't sound the same! It is really strange but the 51B had more Bass with more Punch to me while the 61a had a better Detail Resolution, Transient Response and better Stereo Image.

I've expected the 61a because of it's bigger Size has more Bass but it is the exact opposite to me. Sure they play a bit lower 2Hz and have more Headroom with more powerful Amps but the Bass is a bit thin to me after GLM 4.1 Calibration and even +3dB Gain on 100Hz didn't fixed it for my Needs. In my Room there are mainly Peaks from 30-300Hz and minimal Dips. The Peaks has solved fine with GLM. I’ll gues this is linear listening experience how it sounds now.

But I’m just really wondering if I get more bass or a bigger bass with more punch if I’m adding one or two 7370 or just one 7380 Genelec Sub??
Did somebody noticed the same here with The Ones Series the bass sounds a little bit thin? And can you fix that by adding a Sub?
 

dorirod

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Hey Guys I just wanted to report back. I've decided to send the 8351B's back and get the bigger Ones 8361's! I didn't had the Chance to compare those two Models Side by Side in the same room in the same Position. I've had those two models here in the same room on the same Position but seperately. So I can compare them only by my memories subjective.

That's some pretty expensive set of speakers. Did you not get some REW measurements of both sets to compare? I hope you are not just relying on your memory to compare and make a decision.
 

Mykola

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Hey Guys I just wanted to report back. I've decided to send the 8351B's back and get the bigger Ones 8361's! I didn't had the Chance to compare those two Models Side by Side in the same room in the same Position. I've had those two models here in the same room on the same Position but seperately. So I can compare them only by my memories subjective.

To me the 8351B and the 8361a really don't sound the same! It is really strange but the 51B had more Bass with more Punch to me while the 61a had a better Detail Resolution, Transient Response and better Stereo Image.

I've expected the 61a because of it's bigger Size has more Bass but it is the exact opposite to me. Sure they play a bit lower 2Hz and have more Headroom with more powerful Amps but the Bass is a bit thin to me after GLM 4.1 Calibration and even +3dB Gain on 100Hz didn't fixed it for my Needs. In my Room there are mainly Peaks from 30-300Hz and minimal Dips. The Peaks has solved fine with GLM. I’ll gues this is linear listening experience how it sounds now.

But I’m just really wondering if I get more bass or a bigger bass with more punch if I’m adding one or two 7370 or just one 7380 Genelec Sub??
Did somebody noticed the same here with The Ones Series the bass sounds a little bit thin? And can you fix that by adding a Sub?

I have 61s and same feeling of lucking bass down below . So plan to add 7380. Oh two :)
 
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