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Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

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  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 0.9%
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    Votes: 4 0.6%
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    Votes: 638 94.4%

  • Total voters
    676

niesfisch

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Doing volume regulation with Yamaha wxc50 in pre amp mode: best option is to lower the internal digital level inside the speaker with GLM to -30 dB , because its lowered AFTER the dsp filtering , then store it into the speaker , and put away the GLM kit .
i can't really follow. what is your goal of doing this? why the limit of -30 db?

would this be the impedance converter from neutrik to go "the digital route".
 

richard12511

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Given that they are all a similar-ish price, how do you think the Genelec 8361A compares to the Kii Three and the D&D 8C?

It's a good question. We haven't seen the Kii Three NFS measurement yet, but I expect them to be similarly excellent. Traditional measurements is a wash. Advantages I can think of for each:

8361
- Best output
- Best Price
- Extensibility(W371)
- Point source
- Can be turned sideways as a center speaker with no consequence

8C
- Best Bass Extension
- Second best max output
- LF Directivity control
- Second best price

Kii Three
- Second best Bass Extension
- LF Directivity Control
- Extensibility(Bass Module)

I think all are well priced for what they offer.

For 2.0 listening, I think I'd still have to go with the 8C(unless I was sure I'd eventually upgrade to the W371).
For HT or multi-channel, I think I'd go for the 8361
 

richard12511

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Ok, My fear, as I own the Focal Solo6 which are great, is that the 8341 make a smaller image, so I think the 8351 would be better and of course the 8361...
I already ask for demos but they won't allow it...
IMO, the 8341 will display a smaller image than the Focal, as that's one of the main "benefits" that a coaxial point source provides. It really gives that pinpoint imaging where you can pick out where in the mix everything is. If you see that as a negative, coax may not be the way to go, but rather maybe a giant tower.
 

richard12511

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In Canada a pair of Genelec 8361s retail for $10,700 cad, a pair of Kii3s retail for $20,400 cad. You may not be able to answer this question but what would you conjecture to be the advantages of the Kii3s over the 8361s? (In a midfield domestic application where very high SPLs are not required)
Low frequency directivity extension(which research shows does correlate to preference) and slightly deeper frequency extension.
 

Sancus

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I think I lead the discussion astray with this power handling and "short term peak" spl talk. Thinking about it last night, there is no way it means what I was thinking it means.

I don't know why they label them that way, but Genelec's specs are actually a pretty good guide to how loud the speaker will get. Here's what the different specs mean.

  • "Peak SPL: 124dB". They don't explain this test beyond saying it involves a pair of speakers playing, not 1.
    • I suspect this is the max at 1khz with 6dB gain from two speakers playing, eg the loudest a stereo pair can ever play given a very forgiving signal.
  • "Short term max SPL: 118dB" Maximum short term sine wave SPL output at 1 m on axis in half space, averaged as specified (from 100 Hz to 3 kHz).
    • This is how loud the speaker will play NOT including the low bass.
    • In half space, this means it also includes 6dB boundary gain up to about 300hz probably, relative to anechoic tests.
    • They also don't include upper treble where the tweeter limits, either, because again, that is completely irrelevant.
    • You might get close to this with a powerful enough sub crossed at 100hz.
  • "Long term max SPL: 109dB" Maximum long term RMS acoustic output in the same conditions with IEC weighted noise (limited by driver protection circuit) at 1 m.
    • The IEC weighted noise referenced here is pink noise. Pink noise is downsloping relative to frequency, so this is a low bass test.
    • Still half space, so includes 6dB gain relative to anechoic, but is comparable to CEA2010 tests which also use half space.
I'm increasingly a bit skeptical of the details on the THD graphs, though I think the broad trends are probably useful. But, like the dip in capability from 100-150hz on the S&R 8361A test, is that real? There's no indication of elevated distortion there in Amir's 106dB test. And does elevated 2nd harmonic mean anything in terms of output limiting? Probably not -- like CEA2010, distortion-based SPL tests probably need to use different thresholds for different harmonics, not THD.
 
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Tangband

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i can't really follow. what is your goal of doing this? why the limit of -30 db?

would this be the impedance converter from neutrik to go "the digital route".
The D/A inside the Genelec after the dsp crossover is a 24 bit converter. Limiting the gain -30 dB after the dsp crossover with the help of GLM , at the D/A, you will get less resolution, but not much. The advantage in doing so , is that you can have the volume regulation from the digital source almost at full volume at normal listening levels, feeding the dsp crossover with a good, digital resolution . This will give you a good sound quality. You can store that -30 dB setting in each speaker and then disconnect the GLM kit with all the cables.

Using GLM volume control will ofcourse give the best soundquality, because the dsp crossover will then be fed a maximum digital signal, and all regulation of the volume will be after the dsp , at the 24 bit D/A converter just before the power amplifiers.

But having the GLM in power with all the GLM-cables connected at the loudspeakers all the time is not a very practical solution in a livingroom.
 
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gondorff

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For all those who are interested in AES/SPDIF/whatever digital connections, this might be of interest: It is an answer from Genelec, taken out of the community forum:


markus-kahelin, modified 5 Years ago.​

Re: Stereo HT setup with just 2 Genelec 8351A (via AES/EBU)

Jedi Knight Posts: 109 Join Date: 3/16/10


Hi!

The quality difference between the AES/EBU and analog input on any of our products is minimal. AES/EBU input offers slightly better immunity for interferences. In terms of measured performance and specifications, there is no difference between the inputs. Here is a bit more detailded reply from our Online Answers Library

Best Regards, Markus
Genelec Oy

What is the quality and performance of the digital AES/EBU input and the A/D - D/A converters?

Monitoring of digital audio in AES/EBU supports sampling rates up to 192 kHz and word length up to 24 bits. The digital audio is sample rate converted to ensure synchronization with all sources. An AES/EBU thru output provides daisy-chaining to more monitors.

For the analogue audio input and output of the processed audio to the power amplifiers, Genelec uses professional quality A/D and D/A converters with at least 24 bit nominal resolution. Depending on the monitor model, the digital and analogue audio signals are internally processed at 96 kHz, and there is a true 48 kHz wide audio path from the input to the acoustic output, with the tweeter system equalized up to about 40 kHz.

In smaller products and subwoofers the internal sample rate is 48 kHz and the audio path is 24 kHz wide. All audio, including the analogue audio, goes through the digital signal processing and the internal dynamic range of the signal processing is always better than the equivalent of 24 bit resolution.
 

Spocko

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Many thanks.
Could you, please. develope what you said ...?
"...eliminate extraneous artifacts like tongue clicks, breathing, etc."

I mean, are you talking about recording details you don't like (the higher the volume the more likely the drums will overcome the recorded breathing of a singer), or is it a woofer issue or otherwise proper behaviour when lack of energy does not allow adequate reproduction by the low energised woofer?

Because I can hear random noises like those you describe and that I sometimes detect when playing very softly my keyboard, and have been thinking for quite a while about what might be going on, even upgrading my loudspeakers...They completely disappear when higher volumes (>60dB) are used.

And I think this is a very important fact indeed, since we are accustomed to check the capability of loudspeakers at high levels, 85-96-105 dB, but nothing is said about minimum volumes to avoid those artifacts !!!!
I meant that I use these speakers for mixing on my DAW, and I want to hear the noise that's in my own recording so that I can remove them and make sure it doesn't end up in my final production! To hear the noise, I do turn up the speakers a bit because many people listen to my content on headphones and IEMs which exacerbate such extraneous noise if I don't get rid of it.

Yes definitely content specific - steel acoustic guitar strings definitely very apparent and could be incredibly annoying to some people sensitive to it!
 

Spocko

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It's a good question. We haven't seen the Kii Three NFS measurement yet, but I expect them to be similarly excellent. Traditional measurements is a wash. Advantages I can think of for each:

8361
- Best output
- Best Price
- Extensibility(W371)
- Point source
- Can be turned sideways as a center speaker with no consequence

8C
- Best Bass Extension
- Second best max output
- LF Directivity control
- Second best price

Kii Three
- Second best Bass Extension
- LF Directivity Control
- Extensibility(Bass Module)

I think all are well priced for what they offer.

For 2.0 listening, I think I'd still have to go with the 8C(unless I was sure I'd eventually upgrade to the W371).
For HT or multi-channel, I think I'd go for the 8361
I concluded as you did - my only gripe with the 8C is that they need to have something like the Kii Control remote or Trinnov's LaRemote. It's those little lifestyle touches that luxury listeners look for and willing to pay for!
 
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Massimo

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I concluded as you did - my only gripe with the 8C is that they need to have something like the Kii Control remote or Trinnov's LaRemote. It's those little lifestyle touches that luxury listeners look for and willing to pay for!
I would much prefer that this functionality is provided by way of an app, as is the case with the 8C. Physical controllers add considerable cost and I am already juggling too many remotes.
 

Spocko

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I would much prefer that this functionality is provided by way of an app, as is the case with the 8C. Physical controllers add considerable cost and I am already juggling too many remotes.
As long as it's optional - you'll be surprised how many people don't like using their phone/tablet to control things.
 

fredoamigo

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I love the Kii and the 8C, but on the long term and in case of failure of one of the many components on board ... I would opt for Genelec
 

G|force

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I'm so glad the donor and the tester got the 8361A on the site! Everyone was waiting for that and you delivered. **thank you**
I'm an 2x 8341 owner since May with GLM and rotary volume control if you have not seen me before. ;-) Hi.
I've been through the thread and the only thing that niggles me is pages back one poster was kind enough to show off his right side '61 and '51 together. Some comments back there on what was what so, one way to identify a '51 out of a field of Ones is that the LED on the baffle is offset vs. in center with the concentric MT.
Without scale '31A '41A '61A look identical but you can always pick out a '51B.
I have never heard 31 51 61
You all rock and I appreciate reading your comments! ::peace::
 
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Senior NEET Engineer

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I love the Kii and the 8C, but on the long term and in case of failure of one of the many components on board ... I would opt for Genelec
That's one of the reasons I opted for Revel instead of Genelec. I don't want my speakers to stop working because of firmware bug.
 
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