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Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

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  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 0.9%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 4 0.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 28 4.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 638 94.4%

  • Total voters
    676

cavedriver

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Oh yeah? Which monoprice sub plays cleanly without breakup to 500hz?
Perhaps the W371 does that (I haven't looked yet), but why would that be a criteria? The distortion on the 8361 at 106 dB is fine above about 200 Hz so I would think this is the range desired. Above about a 100 Hz I would argue it's not really a subwoofer anymore anyway since the sound becomes directional in there somewhere, and Genelec is really building something else (I know, I suppose they are).
I agree they are overpriced but that comparison is silly.

Of course the Monoprice is not the same thing, I used it to illustrate the competitive cost of a well built subwoofer vs. the (imho) overpriced units from some other companies. I could have used SVS or one or two other brands that are a bit more expensive but none of them play flat to higher frequencies because they are all subwoofers and you could have called them silly just as easily. The W371 I suppose is more like taking a number of tower speaker designs that produce excellent bass down to 20 Hz and cutting the tops off. I know much of the cost in $5-10k speakers are the bass drivers so maybe there's something to this, but it sounds like we are all wondering where Genelec came up with $5k a piece.
 

tifune

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it sounds like we are all wondering where Genelec came up with $5k a piece.

Because you say $5k I'm not sure if you're asking about the 8361 or W, but attached explains where the W price stems from. If you're aware of any other comparable product, we'd all love to know?
 

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danbei

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Perhaps the W371 does that (I haven't looked yet), but why would that be a criteria? The distortion on the 8361 at 106 dB is fine above about 200 Hz so I would think this is the range desired.
It is probably more about directivity than max SPL: below 500Hz 8361 looses control of horizontal directivity for example, this means W371 can also add value in the 200-500 range
 

Sancus

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Perhaps the W371 does that (I haven't looked yet), but why would that be a criteria? The distortion on the 8361 at 106 dB is fine above about 200 Hz so I would think this is the range desired. Above about a 100 Hz I would argue it's not really a subwoofer anymore anyway since the sound becomes directional in there somewhere, and Genelec is really building something else (I know, I suppose they are).
It's not a subwoofer at all. Read the manual. The W371A is a controlled directivity woofer system, not only is it directional down to ~60hz but it can also steer nulls to eliminate reflections from specific directions.
 

cavedriver

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It's not a subwoofer at all. Read the manual. The W371A is a controlled directivity woofer system, not only is it directional down to ~60hz but it can also steer nulls to eliminate reflections from specific directions.
I see that in the literature, but what about the speakers actually add to the manufacturing cost or is Genelec trading on their (for now) relatively advanced signal processing.
 

Frank Dernie

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Of course the Monoprice is not the same thing, I used it to illustrate the competitive cost of a well built subwoofer vs. the (imho) overpriced units from some other companies. I could have used SVS or one or two other brands that are a bit more expensive but none of them play flat to higher frequencies because they are all subwoofers and you could have called them silly just as easily. The W371 I suppose is more like taking a number of tower speaker designs that produce excellent bass down to 20 Hz and cutting the tops off. I know much of the cost in $5-10k speakers are the bass drivers so maybe there's something to this, but it sounds like we are all wondering where Genelec came up with $5k a piece.
Given the W371 has two ways of operating to either produce cardioid bass or strongly cancel room modes I would suggest that having the 2 drivers at least a certain distance apart, defining the size, is something nobody else does, or perhaps has even thought of.

There is also the engineering cost of achieving this.
Firstly you have to have employed and paying the clever blokes who understand the physics well enough to have thought out a way it may be possible.
Second the engineering studies done to work out how to achieve it, do the analyses, make, test and evolve prototypes is not trivial and will have cost a lot.
Third designing drive units which match the characteristics you have found in these analyses were needed and tooling for them and making them in relatively tiny numbers.

These are all very expensive things to do and have to be amortised in the price of the product.

Other companies have a relatively trivial product from an engineering standpoint sold in vastly higher quantities so their relatively low engineering cost is spread over far more products.

I hope Genelec have some good patent protections to prevent others getting free benefit from their work.
 

Pearljam5000

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They can move the production to China and make the products more affordable(not that I support it)
 

Frank Dernie

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They can move the production to China and make the products more affordable(not that I support it)
I wouldn't support it either but for a low production volume, high (very) engineering content product like the W371 I don't imagine the saving would be anywhere near as great as it is with a high volume conventional product.
 

Purité Audio

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Given the W371 has two ways of operating to either produce cardioid bass or strongly cancel room modes I would suggest that having the 2 drivers at least a certain distance apart, defining the size, is something nobody else does, or perhaps has even thought of.

There is also the engineering cost of achieving this.
Firstly you have to have employed and paying the clever blokes who understand the physics well enough to have thought out a way it may be possible.
Second the engineering studies done to work out how to achieve it, do the analyses, make, test and evolve prototypes is not trivial and will have cost a lot.
Third designing drive units which match the characteristics you have found in these analyses were needed and tooling for them and making them in relatively tiny numbers.

These are all very expensive things to do and have to be amortised in the price of the product.

Other companies have a relatively trivial product from an engineering standpoint sold in vastly higher quantities so their relatively low engineering cost is spread over far more products.

I hope Genelec have some good patent protections to prevent others getting free benefit from their work.
It is an interesting bit of kit at a price but they mustn’t be considered a cure-all, they only operate in one mode at any time.
Genelec showed me their ( partially treated ) in room measurements when I visited them, far from perfect.
I believe their primary intended use is to cancel ‘cancellations’ when the main monitors are placed outside of the 10-60cm front wall positioning Genelec recommend.
The demonstrationI attended with two 8361, 2x W371 and two outright subs was impressive though.
Keith
 

DubbyMcDubs

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Given the W371 has two ways of operating to either produce cardioid bass or strongly cancel room modes I would suggest that having the 2 drivers at least a certain distance apart, defining the size, is something nobody else does, or perhaps has even thought of.

There is also the engineering cost of achieving this.
Firstly you have to have employed and paying the clever blokes who understand the physics well enough to have thought out a way it may be possible.
Second the engineering studies done to work out how to achieve it, do the analyses, make, test and evolve prototypes is not trivial and will have cost a lot.
Third designing drive units which match the characteristics you have found in these analyses were needed and tooling for them and making them in relatively tiny numbers.

These are all very expensive things to do and have to be amortised in the price of the product.

Other companies have a relatively trivial product from an engineering standpoint sold in vastly higher quantities so their relatively low engineering cost is spread over far more products.

I hope Genelec have some good patent protections to prevent others getting free benefit from their work.
I wouldn't support it either but for a low production volume, high (very) engineering content product like the W371 I don't imagine the saving would be anywhere near as great as it is with a high volume conventional product.

I was coming back to make the same points.

The cost of developing a product like this would be sobering, and many many times more than a conventional subwoofer. I can't see them selling that many of them, but perhaps the tech will be integrated eventually into other more affordable and smaller products. Trickle down as they say.
 

Sokel

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From the little I have read the W371 is more like an extended woofer and less an ordinary sub.
And most of the pics of studios have it under the mains or really close to them.
That's probably the reason it doesn't suffer from this ugly 100-200Hz dip that we see all the time with "ordinary" subs.
 

Frank Dernie

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It is an interesting bit of kit at a price but they mustn’t be considered a cure-all, they only operate in one mode at any time.
Genelec showed me their ( partially treated ) in room measurements when I visited them, far from perfect.
I believe their primary intended use is to cancel ‘cancellations’ when the main monitors are placed outside of the 10-60cm front wall positioning Genelec recommend.
The demonstrationI attended with two 8361, 2x W371 and two outright subs was impressive though.
Keith
Very true Keith, but nobody else has a choice of 2 modes do they?
Plus whilst they explain the intended use is really to cancel room modes there are several cardioid possibilities as an option for targeting room problems.

I am tempted by my admiration of the engineering of these speakers and the Kii, D&D and but have to keep reminding myself that nothing is causing me a lack of musical enjoyment from my existing system, and that has been the case for 25 years...
 

Purité Audio

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GGNTKT can either be cardioid or monopole but point taken.
Keith
 

kma100

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I wouldn't support it either but for a low production volume, high (very) engineering content product like the W371 I don't imagine the saving would be anywhere near as great as it is with a high volume conventional product.
This is a great point that sometimes gets overlooked. Low volume/high cost location leads to high pricing. And I suspect low volume is the bigger driver. And even if they market to home audio, very few people would understand the benefits let alone have “those giant boxes” in their home!
 

Frank Dernie

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I believe their primary intended use is to cancel ‘cancellations’ when the main monitors are placed outside of the 10-60cm front wall positioning Genelec recommend.
Actually not, according to their documentation I read today.
The main aim is, by having 4 Independant bass sources sufficiently far apart, to compensate room modes at the listening position using GLM.

A secondary capability is a steered cardioid response to compensate room boundary reflection problems but, as you mentioned earlie, it can’t do both at the same time and they recommend trying several GLM setups, storing them and auditioning them.

I am still tempted but, as you know, probably should not change what I have enjoyed for 25 years!
 

Purité Audio

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Their speakers may be assembled there but many of their drivers are mAnufactured in China.
Keith
 

Marc v E

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They can move the production to China and make the products more affordable(not that I support it)
There are more ways than one to cut costs. Instead of outsourcing (which is supposedly good for cost cutting but in practice not so much imo and ime), another way is to limit processes and production time. Case in point is the casting of cabinets.

Or making the assembly process very easy.

Or for instance producing much of the power you use in the factory by solar panels.

Tesla for instance cuts costs by vertical integration, eliminating unnecessary parts, using the same parts in multiple models, but mostly by cutting time consuming processes. The same can be done by a speaker manufacturer.
 
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