Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Martini]

Should he also test all other speakers with Dirac or other room correction software? And then remove the room with the NFS? Makes no sense to review like this.

GLM is essential... for end users in a room. We are watching a review here of the speakers by themselves. Totally different things!

Subjectively, if he wants to, yes. However, objectively, since Klippel accounts for the rooms’ "sound" impact; i.e., subtracts it from the measurements, then no. If GLM, Dirac, or whatever DSP is implemented during the testing process, it would render erroneous Klippel measurements.

 

[hvbias]

Typically, the less Erin says about a speaker, the better it is.

He has shown more enthusiasm for certain speakers, but to me it seems that he does so when they represent a really good value for the price. The only exception that I recall is the Blade II meta. But, he was really looking forward to getting his hands on those speakers, and to some (including me) they look like a work of art, which may have had an impact on his enthusiasm.

That's selling them a bit short lol. I bought the LS50 very early on after the massive hype and did not appreciate how "chesty" they sounded (I only saw good measurements of the LS50 a while after I sold them), so if anything I went into the Blade Meta 2 audition with a negative perception of KEF. I was utterly blown away by what I heard, I understood his enthusiasm for them.

 

[Axo1989]

The question of GLM or not isn't far removed from posting those preference scores with and without EQ and sub. Or our host's reviews including his custom EQ tweaks. Informative, so I would do it personally (on my hypothetical review site) but you need to measure the speaker-only baseline, obviously.

 

[Mort]

The question of GLM or not isn't far removed from posting those preference scores with and without EQ and sub. Or our host's reviews including his custom EQ tweaks. Informative, so I would do it personally (on my hypothetical review site) but you need to measure the speaker-only baseline, obviously.

I was just thinking the same. Preference score assumes bass is all the same presumably by application of subwoofer, room modes and DSP, right? Fundamentally it just ignores anything below 80hz, I think?

 

[RexrothPigeon]

GLM can't be suddenly mixed into a standardized test as a new variable. We're lucky we get the testing as it is. Did he even do the review in stereo?

the subjective evaluation isn't standardized (nor can it be--that is categorically impossible when individual subjectivity is in play)

 

[AudioJester]

Also, from Genelec's website:

"Our intelligent Genelec Loudspeaker Manager (GLM) software, for Mac and Windows, works with Genelec Smart Active Monitors (SAM) to offer the finest possible calibration solution in any space – automatically minimising the effect of unwanted room acoustic influences to provide tailored audio monitoring you can fully trust. With their help, you'll hear exactly what's happening in your projects, so you can quickly make the right engineering decisions and create consistently balanced audio that listeners will enjoy with any kind of system."

In my opinion, asking the speaker to be tested with GLM is like asking a speaker to be tested with Dirac Live, or some other room correction software. Why only do that for Genelec speakers and not every other speaker? Moreover, GLM it is not in the speakers themselves; it is separate software that runs on a computer. Not everyone is going to connect a Windows or Mac computer up to their audio system.

Id bet the vast majority of 8361a users would connect up a computer to run GLM.its such a simple process.

The review is kind of pointless as measured performance has alkready been published many times. We know the spin for this speaker. Would have been much better for Erin to measure and review GLM instead....

 

[Mort]

The review is kind of pointless as measured performance has alkready been published many times. We know the spin for this speaker. Would have been much better for Erin to measure and review GLM instead....

Not pointless, but I wish he had done that too.

And he acknowledged maybe he should have used GLM in this review and will next time with the 8380. That's good.

 

[AudioJester]

Not pointless, but I wish he had done that too.

And he acknowledged maybe he should have used GLM in this review and will next time with the 8380. That's good.

Yeah pointless is the wrong choice of word by me.

I saw on another thread he turned down the opportunity to measure the Sigberg audio Manta. Would have been great to see that rather than another 8361a spin

 

[Mort]

I watched it twice, thought it was fair. He explains that he's nitpicking. His points are valid, it's not the most perfect on axis FR. The 8351b is better in some ways, we knew that. The directivity bump is interesting.

It clearly doesn't light his fire though. That's okay, it's not the speaker for everyone.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Did he end up buying the Blade 2 Meta?

 

[Impossible]

Erin´s video is out one hour ago.

Erin describes the sound of the Genelec 8361A (now US $11,000 /pair [EUR 10.692 /pair in Germany]) using both, his subjective listening impressions and objective data. He also provides you with sound clips for a better understanding of what he heard and how it relates to the data.

Timestamps:
1. 0:00 - Intro
2. 3:38 - Subjective & Objective
3. 11:41 - Wrap-Up

Yep he accurately points out the 2khz-3khz region. Prior when i said this everyone was like no its not the speakers it you, obviously people with rose tinted glasses.
i found the 2khz-3khz region overshadows and hides a lot of detail in the rest of the treble. I really wanted to keep them but ended up selling them.

 

[alankila]

I was just thinking the same. Preference score assumes bass is all the same presumably by application of subwoofer, room modes and DSP, right? Fundamentally it just ignores anything below 80hz, I think?

The preference score factors in the -6 dB frequency limit of the speaker. However, it can also be calculated for "perfect subwoofer", which assumes that low end extensions of the unit is no longer limited, but reaches 14.5 Hz which is considered the correct value to make the math work. Maximum in preference score is 10, and it is realized if the unit has -6 dB point at or below this frequency, and the other metrics such as deviations from linearity in the on-axis sound and estimated in-room response are 0. The preference score can be considered to come from roughly three parts: the linearity, extension and the dispersion pattern being well-behaved across the frequency range.

No speaker is perfect, not even "The Ones". Neither is GLM. I have the 8351B as some may know, and to me they are amply sufficient to get the job done. At near field, I don't use GLM because I do my own room correction on the PC side using frequency dependent windows in REW, which I think might be slightly more accurate than other methods. I also don't think GLM tries very hard to make sound flat -- I think AutoCal 2 allows up to 3 dB deviation before it works to correct something, and I usually end up with a noticeably hot 100-200 Hz region due to the modes in my room that it doesn't bother to suppress well enough. I also don't think the subwoofer time alignment is necessarily coming out correct, if you have one. (I have the 7370A.) I used REW with acoustic timing chirp coming from right channel and then muted the left or sub and took impulses, and I can see that the sub's impulse doesn't start at the same time as the monitor impulse does (which is what it should be doing if it is an ideal minimum phase bandlimited sub), but rather it seemed to find a calibration where subwoofer was 1 full cycle late. So, I don't really trust the algorithms Genelec has come up with for the time being, unfortunately. Hopefully your experience is different from mine.

I'm just a casual audiophile, not professional producer. I am, however, interested in looking at measurement data to confirm that my system is performing as expected, because I do want the audio I hear to be "correct" in sense that on-axis is flat, natural SBIR-type room bass boost is preserved, but room modes are removed.

 

[Jonazkur]

Did he end up buying the Blade 2 Meta?

Imo blade 2 meta doesnt look that much better. It also has strong directivity jump at 200hz bcouse of the side woofers where genelec is smoother.

 

[CMB]

I don't think that analogy necessarily works. GLM is a separate product that costs extra - the fact that it's a Genelec-branded product whereas, say, Dirac is not a product created or offered by speaker manufacturer, is not in my view of any relevance to this question (although I certainly agree it's very relevant to an end-user of Genelec speakers!).

If GLM were included with, and as part of the price of, every pair of Genelec 8361a's (or whatever Genelec model might be under review), and if GLM were required in order to maximize the speakers' inherent/anechoic linearity, then in that case I would 100% say Yes, reviewing Genelecs without GLM is like reviewing Bose 901s without the Bose EQ unit that came with the speakers.

But the specs of the 8361a (like all Genelec speakers) outline its capabilities without GLM, and the speakers' on-axis linearity and dispersion characteristics have been designed "inside the box" with no need for GLM. So for consistency it makes sense for Erin to unpack them, stick them on the Klippel, and then listen to them uncorrected in his room, just like he does with other speakers. I'd be sympathetic to an argument saying that he should be listening to all the speakers he reviews with basic room correction DSP applied in order to minimize the impact of his particular room on his subjective impressions. But that ship sailed long ago.

Well, I don’t see it quit as this and feel free to correct me. I think GLM is a technically build in part of the speaker from scratch and part of the offering/purchase. That makes them SAM speakers. The dsp is saved inside the speaker itself. The box and microphone is sold extra which makes perfectly sense, as you will need only one of those boxes for all of your SAM speakers. You don’t want to get one for each SAM speaker or each pair. Also more as you can buy them one by one.
That said, I think too that it made sense to measure them without dsp applied, even listen to them without, but then as a reviewer, I would think it would make sense to listen and judge them as they were intended to be used, which means with GLM.

 

[voodooless]

GLM is a separate product that costs extra

In theory. In practice they’ll throw it in for free on these monitors. Nobody uses these without GLM, so why would you make a subjective test that way?

Again, the GLM is a room correction software, it makes zero sense to use it in a Nearfield Scanning

I’m not proposing to use it on the Kippel, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. For a subjective listening test however: sure. For the same reason, I don’t see why one should not fiddle with the DIP switches. That’s what they’re there for: adopt de speaker to the environment (even if it a bit crude).

 

[CMB]

He sounds much more excited about the 8380

Right - as a reviewer he knows exactly that the 8361 had already been klippeld. So its review of it couldn’t really be exciting the masses. I felt like he did it just to get the 8380 from Genelec to measure. I hope he will succed, would be interesting . Have a good day.

 

[darth]

If you buy a pair from smaller small business stores, glm can likely be free. I got one with my pair of 8331a

eg: https://www.frontendaudio.com/genel.../?searchid=3582182&search_query=Genelec+combo

 

[markstein]

Finally, I found it fascinating that he mentioned a very slight directivity increase around 2-3kHz, which has little to no effect in the near field but which shows up as a slight elevation in the estimated far field in-room response.

You mean directivity decreases around 2-3kHz.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I was just thinking the same. Preference score assumes bass is all the same presumably by application of subwoofer, room modes and DSP, right? Fundamentally it just ignores anything below 80hz, I think?

No, bass is a significant part of the preference score. Just see how much the score changes if you add "with a perfect subwoofer" on Spinorama for any random speaker with a typical bass response, they often increase by up to 2 points.

 

[RobL]

I enjoyed the review, he did mention that these are one of the better speakers he has listened to. GLM was great for fine tuning them to my room and taste so it would have been great for him to have included it even as a side note. Maybe their aesthetic tempered his subjective enthusiasm? These are certainly one of, if not the most unconventional looking speaker he has tested.