Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[mj30250]

Others will have to answer about whether or not the +3dB low shelf limit exists when using Genelec subs.

But I do know that even without subs connected, you can exceed that +3dB low shelf bass boost - you just can't do it within the simplified interface of the Sound Character Profiler.

Instead, you have to click on each individual speaker (which is not a big deal if you have a stereo setup) and manually add a low shelf filter at your desired frequency to the pre-existing series of filters that GLM created for the speaker when you did your room measurement and calibration.

To be clear, any individual speaker low-shelf boost you manually create will be additive to any global low-shelf boost you might already have created in Sound Character Profiler.

So if you want to create a +5dB low shelf at, say, 100Hz, you can create a +3dB 100Hz low shelf in Sound Character Profiler, and then go into each speaker and add a +2dB Low Shelf at 100Hz. Or you can set Sound Character Profiler to flat and make the individual-speaker manual Low Shelf filter +5dB instead. It should produce the identical result either way as far as I know.

That was very helpful, thank you!

 

[rubicon99]

Others will have to answer about whether or not the +3dB low shelf limit exists when using Genelec subs.

But I do know that even without subs connected, you can exceed that +3dB low shelf bass boost - you just can't do it within the simplified interface of the Sound Character Profiler.

Instead, you have to click on each individual speaker (which is not a big deal if you have a stereo setup) and manually add a low shelf filter at your desired frequency to the pre-existing series of filters that GLM created for the speaker when you did your room measurement and calibration.

To be clear, any individual speaker low-shelf boost you manually create will be additive to any global low-shelf boost you might already have created in Sound Character Profiler.

So if you want to create a +5dB low shelf at, say, 100Hz, you can create a +3dB 100Hz low shelf in Sound Character Profiler, and then go into each speaker and add a +2dB Low Shelf at 100Hz. Or you can set Sound Character Profiler to flat and make the individual-speaker manual Low Shelf filter +5dB instead. It should produce the identical result either way as far as I know.

Or you still use Sound Character profile but instead do a negative high shelf.

So instead of Low Shelf +5db at 100hz, you do High Shelf -5dB at 100z. Same effect.
I actually prefer this to boosting. Probably eats into your headroom more but headroom is not something these beasts lack, especially in near-field.

 

[tmtomh]

Or you still use Sound Character profile but instead do a negative high shelf.

So instead of Low Shelf +5db at 100hz, you do High Shelf -5dB at 100z. Same effect.
I actually prefer this to boosting. Probably eats into your headroom more but headroom is not something these beasts lack, especially in near-field.

Good point! RE headroom, all I know is that my 8351b's have a bit lower max SPL capability than the 8361a's, but in my ≈300 sq ft (28 sq M) room, they play so loud that I have not been able to get their amber limiting LEDs to come on, let alone their red clipping LEDs, at any volume where I can stand to be in the room. I know some folks have much larger rooms and other folks have driven their Genelecs to clipping or limiting, but personally I haven't been able to make it happen even when pushing them harder than was comfortable for me just to see.

 

[Wg916]

Others will have to answer about whether or not the +3dB low shelf limit exists when using Genelec subs.

But I do know that even without subs connected, you can exceed that +3dB low shelf bass boost - you just can't do it within the simplified interface of the Sound Character Profiler.

Instead, you have to click on each individual speaker (which is not a big deal if you have a stereo setup) and manually add a low shelf filter at your desired frequency to the pre-existing series of filters that GLM created for the speaker when you did your room measurement and calibration.

To be clear, any individual speaker low-shelf boost you manually create will be additive to any global low-shelf boost you might already have created in Sound Character Profiler.

So if you want to create a +5dB low shelf at, say, 100Hz, you can create a +3dB 100Hz low shelf in Sound Character Profiler, and then go into each speaker and add a +2dB Low Shelf at 100Hz. Or you can set Sound Character Profiler to flat and make the individual-speaker manual Low Shelf filter +5dB instead. It should produce the identical result either way as far as I know.

Everything in here is accurate! More than one way to skin a cat. I just wish it were more intuitive.

One thing I want to add is that depending on the way you do it, you might come up against a hard limit. GLM limits a max of +6db for any frequency.

So say GLM makes a flat frequency response by boosting 200hz by +4db, you cannot then add more than +2db. E.g. It won’t take a +3db shelf @200hz— it’ll throw a message that says the +6db limit has been exceeded for a given frequency.

So the only way to get to where you want is cutting other frequencies, but that ends up decreasing the max volume. You might have to boost using PEQ or shelf on the preamp side to get around the +6db limit without deleterious effect to volume….thats what I did through my WiiM Ultra.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Everything in here is accurate! More than one way to skin a cat. I just wish it were more intuitive.

One thing I want to add is that depending on the way you do it, you might come up against a hard limit. GLM limits a max of +6db for any frequency.

So say GLM makes a flat frequency response by boosting 200hz by +4db, you cannot then add more than +2db. E.g. It won’t take a +3db shelf @200hz— it’ll throw a message that says the +6db limit has been exceeded for a given frequency.

So the only way to get to where you want is cutting other frequencies, but that ends up decreasing the max volume. You might have to boost using PEQ or shelf on the preamp side to get around the +6db limit without deleterious effect to volume….thats what I did through my WiiM Ultra.

That is pretty basic though. How much boost the driver can take depends its amp and max output and if you start trying to fill in by boosting some frequencies it will inevitably lead to need to cutting others at some stage if you want to make big changes to frequency balance and the volume will then of course, go down!
6dB boost is a huge power increase and is a very reasonable limit to prevent people trying the technically implausible.

 

[Wg916]

That is pretty basic though. How much boost the driver can take depends its amp and max output and if you start trying to fill in by boosting some frequencies it will inevitably lead to need to cutting others at some stage if you want to make big changes to frequency balance and the volume will then of course, go down!
6dB boost is a huge power increase and is a very reasonable limit to prevent people trying the technically implausible.

Yeah totally get the potential limitations. I know that other RC like Dirac does it by allocating 10db on the back end. It might just be my unreasonable expectations. I think feeding into this is that when you run the 8361a’s uncalibrated/no GLM, they are bass monsters (how Amir describes the bass capabilities in his review). You only get a fraction of that bass output if calibrated to flat and adding the maximum bass shelf in GLM. But I understand it’s likely room modes in uncalibrated mode that make the bass so pronounced. Lower max volume is a reasonable trade off to have both smooth frequency response and lots of bass.

 

[Wg916]

I’m listening to them right now uncalibrated and subs off. I’m tempted to chuck out GLM and all EQ and just run the 8361a uncalibrated. It feels wrong to do that, but I think I might prefer the sound in their natural state.

 

[Purité Audio]

It wouldn’t be their ‘natural’ state it would have the addition ( and subtraction) of the room.
Keith

 

[Wg916]

It wouldn’t be their ‘natural’ state it would have the addition ( and subtraction) of the room.
Keith

Yeah lol I thought about that right after I posted.

Time for me to bust out the UMIK and visualize my preference.

 

[rubicon99]

i have to admit messing around with frequency response calibration and correction is a pain the ass, if you cant nail down which frequency(s) are the culprit to either tame or boost. Its like you always feels like something is missing or excessive when you know it can be "fixed" by target curves etc.

 

[Behrelec 37]

WG916.

It is worth understanding that by acoustics you will get much better glm measurements than your bare room, which glm architecture randomly gives you the best compromise at the moment.Acoustics are bad if you hear a sharp, piercing echo from your room when you clap your hands. The sound must stop quickly and the clap of your hands sounds like you are lightly slapping a child's bottom with the back of your hand. That is good acoustics.

 

[darth]

The sound must stop quickly and the clap of your hands sounds like you are lightly slapping a child's bottom with the back of your hand. That is good acoustics.

I don't have a child here to slap around, does wife's bottom work too? In the name of science

 

[ilikesound]

Is anyone interested in buying a 7380a sub? I have one that's still under warranty and was used veeeeery little. bought in march.
If so send me a message.

 

[levimax]

Rather than futilely trying to boost bass nulls and massively reducing headroom (even a 6 dB headroom loss is still a lot), I find using ERB smoothing to be much easier and more effective . The sharp bass nulls disappear and I find the correlation to what I hear to be very accurate, in many cases I have found trying to "boost away" bass nulls to sound worse than smoothing them over.

 

[tmtomh]

Rather than futilely trying to boost bass nulls and massively reducing headroom (even a 6 dB headroom loss is still a lot), I find using ERB smoothing to be much easier and more effective . The sharp bass nulls disappear and I find the correlation to what I hear to be very accurate, in many cases I have found trying to "boost away" bass nulls to sound worse than smoothing them over.

+1 to this! I've found that when listening to music I simply don't hear nulls, if they are sufficiently narrow. I've mentioned the very narrow (and fortunately for me, not terribly huge in amplitude) bass null I have in my room at about 105Hz. When I made it go away by moving my speakers closer to the side walls, I didn't like the overall effect because they were too far apart at that point - but I should also mention that in addition to that, the only audible change I found in the bass after running GLM calibration again was that the FR graph looked prettier around 100Hz - the actual sound of the bass in-room was no smoother than before, because I didn't hear any lack of smoothness in the first place with the speakers in their normal placement.

I have wondered if I could hear that dip with a particular sweep - say a sweep that went from about 40Hz up to 150Hz, back and forth a few times, and a bit more slowly than a typical sweep does. But even so, if you have to create a special sine sweep to hear it, who cares?

 

[levimax]

+1 to this! I've found that when listening to music I simply don't hear nulls, if they are sufficiently narrow. I've mentioned the very narrow (and fortunately for me, not terribly huge in amplitude) bass null I have in my room at about 105Hz. When I made it go away by moving my speakers closer to the side walls, I didn't like the overall effect because they were too far apart at that point - but I should also mention that in addition to that, the only audible change I found in the bass after running GLM calibration again was that the FR graph looked prettier around 100Hz - the actual sound of the bass in-room was no smoother than before, because I didn't hear any lack of smoothest in the first place with the speakers in their normal placement.

I have wondered if I could hear that dip with a particular sweep - say a sweep that went from about 40Hz up to 150Hz, back and forth a few times, and a bit more slowly than a typical sweep does. But even so, if you have to create a special sine sweep to hear it, who cares?

Supposedly ERB smoothing is based on the anatomy of our inner ears and how we actually perceive sound. I don't know if the science of it is really any good. Maybe @j_j can weigh in on the accuracy and usefulness of ERB smoothing?

 

[Wg916]

WG916.

It is worth understanding that by acoustics you will get much better glm measurements than your bare room, which glm architecture randomly gives you the best compromise at the moment.Acoustics are bad if you hear a sharp, piercing echo from your room when you clap your hands. The sound must stop quickly and the clap of your hands sounds like you are lightly slapping a child's bottom with the back of your hand. That is good acoustics.

I've got all the first reflection points covered and some 10" corner bass traps, along with some broadband panels scattered throughout to help with reverb. I think GLM grade report thinks I'm doing okay on this front (attached).

After some measurements, it was nothing to do with GLM or its results. I learned that I just have an unusual preference for a lot of bass, and I prefer more of it even if it's uneven. I thought I was over this from my teenage years-- back when I was ridin' dirty with two 12" Rockford Fosgate Power ported subwoofers in the trunk of my car (with everything rattling)-- but it seems like I just need to either go with a more pronounced low shelf or learn to live like a more civilized adult.

In the screenshot below, I offset the SPL to match around 200hz since I was primarily concentrating on bass response. To me, "Stereo Uncalibrated" (8361a, no sub, fully uncorrected) really sounded the best at first, but after adding a few more db to the calibrated (GLM+Dirac) low shelf , I think I prefer "Stereo DIRAC GLM 80hz," which is the 8361a crossed over at 80hz with 2x Klipsch RP-1400sw subs. I don't know if I should add a bit more or if that's just ridiculous. How much clean, even bass is too much?

 

[Behrelec 37]

dart.

I'm sure if it's bouncy and soft it will... work. Just be careful not to get bitten by your female lioness.

 

[levimax]

How much clean, even bass is too much?

I find that if you have clean and even response down to 20Hz that some type of "tone controls" or "different preset's" are needed. While a one size fits all recordings FR may be intellectually pure i.e. reproduce exactly what is on the recording, in practice I find it falls apart on the last octave and some FR flexibility is needed for best results. Fortunately for most music there is so little content below 40 Hz that it doesn't make much difference.... but on some recordings it does.

 

[Behrelec 37]

If you have a Genelec subwoofer that has also been separately GLM measured and connected to your measured main speakers, there is a separate option in the GLM settings to lower or raise the gain, allowing you to quickly get more bass if you feel like it.


Genelec's 7380a subwoofer is a real bomb of pure sound. It is particularly enjoyable for the 8361a speakers, and even larger master series speakers up to the 1238a. I can guarantee that you will not be disappointed by the lack of quality. You will enjoy it with absolute joy for a long time of your life. And of course, you will definitely connect it from start to finish digitally using AES/EBU cables, so that you know its capabilities. Of course, to make your stomach ache, you will have to settle for larger competing products. This is not a suitable subwoofer for that.