Thanks again for your posts. While there have been plenty of comments on correct speaker placement, hardly any as to GIK’s approach to my room situation as per my original post. Let’s assume for the purpose of discussion that my speaker placement is fine (it is in fact according to Genelecs recommendation close to the wall, speakers cannot be moved closer to each other as screen for Beamer is between them and the couch should not really be closer to the speakers), so we can focus on room treatment, that would be great.
So, is GIK’s suggested treatments ok? Enough/too much bass traps, enough/too much absorbers, any diffusers necessary, what would a more minimal approach look like/
Looking forward to your opinions and suggestions that are very welcome. Maybe with your help I can get my room ready for some serious listening over X-mas.
I can't give you terribly specific feedback on their particular recommendations for your room, but for what it's worth I can share my own absorber/room treatment experiences, using a mix of absorbers including GIK panels:
- I have 2x GIK 2x4 foot panels on my ceiling, about halfway between the speakers and my listening position. Each panel is 6 inches thick, and they are hung from the ceiling with approximately 3-inch long brackets, creating an air gap between the top/back of each absorber and the ceiling. My understanding is that when you create such an air gap between an absorber and the ceiling or wall, you slightly increase the lower range of the frequencies the panel can absorb. I have found these absorbers highly effective in reducing reflections and enhancing a perception of sharpness and focus in the soundstage and individual voices and instruments. This perception is not just based on my memory from before they were installed. I also removed them once to see if it made any difference and the difference was obvious to me. Still subjective, so take this with a grain of salt. But that was my experience.
- I also have 2x of the same GIK panels on the front wall, behind the speakers. When I have removed them I have experienced a slightly different and inferior quality to the sound, but I am far less confident in this than I am in the effect of the ceiling panels. I have also tried moving these panels around, shifting them side to side along the back wall so they are directly behind the speakers, more to the side of them, and so on - zero perceived difference, and very little difference in room measurements with a mic and correction software. I also have quarter-circle "triangle" bass traps in the corners, and as far as I can tell they don't seem to make things better or worse (I inherited them so I figured why not try them, and I've just left them there as they look kind of nice to me - never underestimate the mind-calming effect of a room treatment that you can take a "who cares" attitude about
).
- I also have some custom-made panels that consist of 6" thick rockwool inside stretch jersey (aka t-shirt material) pillow cases. These fit snugly into openings in some Ikea Billy bookcases I have, which are along the room's back wall. So that's 6" of absorption plus about 4" of air gap behind them inside the bookcases. I made these because the back corners of my room cannot physically accommodate corner traps (the entry door is in one back corner, and the room's one window is in the other). I have no idea if these have any effect, because I'm too lazy to take them out and then move a ton of books into the resulting empty spaces.
- I used to have a different brand's (Audimute, I think) 2" thick, 2x4 foot panels on the side walls - one on each side wall at the first reflection point, mounted with 2-inch standoff brackets for a 2 inch air gap. These definitely impacted the sound - however, after a long time of being hesitant to try removing them, I finally did based on Amir's and others' comments in various discussions here, and I found that removing them had no discernible effect on soundstage precision and focus - but removal did result in a widening of the perceived soundstage, which was very nice. So I've left them off.
- I have one of those same 2" thick 2x4 panels on the front wall in the center, between the speakers and above my equipment cabinet. I've listened with and without it many times and I always end up feeling like vocals and other center-panned elements are slightly more forward, focused, and realistic-sounding with the panel than without. Could very well be placebo, but again, it looks okay, breaks up the otherwise-blank expanse of wall I look at when listening, and at worst does no harm sonically. So I've kept it there.
- Finally, when my room was first built, it had dreadful flutter echo. It was truly awful. Then the wall to wall carpet was laid - nothing especially thick, not even any pile, just a berber-style with a standard pad underneath. That made a huge difference - as in without any other room treatment the carpet all by itself made the room a very decent (if not yet ideal) listening space.
So my personal takeaway is twofold:
1. It is essential - and very easy - to eliminate audible flutter echo, and in general to reduce midrange and treble reverberations to a significant degree, so you can enjoy a nice proportion of direct sound and experience a nicely focused soundstage. This can be done pretty easily with carpet, furniture, pillows, heavy curtains, absorber panels, and so on - pretty much anything at all.
2. It is much more difficult to meaningfully absorb bass frequencies in a typical home listening space. You might be able to achieve some good taming of bass room modes with thick aborbers 6 inches or thicker, plus perhaps some air gaps in your installation. But my sense is that you might need a lot of them, and it might help to have limp-membrane absorbers and/or absorber/diffusers rather than thick broadband absorbers, as by the time you get enough of the latter in the room, you might end up over-absorbing midrange and treble frequencies.
Hope this is of some use!
