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Genelec 8351B Teardown (2nd Disassembled)

Scoox

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Its impossible to see this "tearing" from outside, but here you go. Hope this helps.

FWIW, looking at this pic it seems you might be able to see something from the side:

20160915110125_Figure4-RDStoriesGenelec8351.jpg


In this other image the diaphragm looks flat (8351A), or as if there was a veil over it:

Genelec-8351A-Studiomonitor1.jpg
 

Pearljam5000

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Lol I was searching for info about it and my own thread on ASR appeared as the first result on Google
Screenshot_20211109-142116.jpg
 

FrantzM

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Hi


I am annoyed by the turn taken by many posts in this thread. One look at one sample of a driver and suddenly all hell break loose. Not from a serious study, not from persons with knowledge of material and of drivers and ... No! a picture of some "things" from one driver in one speaker and .. that?
While the company has not officially responded, one of its employees has maintained the (non)-issues to be normal and the company would stand behind its products .. No... the barrage continues . Not enough. Mind you , no measurements, no studies have been presented of the "issue" only pictures of some "things" that appear to be suspect or perhaps non-optimal... in their appearance!!!!

Really!?!!:mad:.
 

Pearljam5000

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Hi


I am annoyed by the turn taken by many posts in this thread. One look at one sample of a driver and suddenly all hell break loose. Not from a serious study, not from persons with knowledge of material and of drivers and ... No! a picture of some "things" from one driver in one speaker and .. that?
While the company has not officially responded, one of its employees has maintained the (non)-issues to be normal and the company would stand behind its products .. No... the barrage continues . Not enough. Mind you , no measurements, no studies have been presented of the "issue" only pictures of some "things" that appear to be suspect or perhaps non-optimal... in their appearance!!!!

Really!?!!:mad:.
Why are you annoyed though?
 

Elkios

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Dear Friends!

We are all gathered here not to tell each other about the advertising features of certain monitors, but in order to achieve the TRUTH through joint efforts, conducting our own investigations as well as we can.

For example.
Mr. Amirm honestly talks about the inability of most of Genelec monitors to reproduce very low frequencies, and the rapidly emerging clipping their amplifiers.
As an engineer in the past, I'm well aware that the rapidly occurring clipping effect is due only to the fact that Genelec is trying to maintain linearity of output sound, deliberately limiting power of their monitors. These are not technical limitations of equipment, but an attempt to keep within certain (linear) parameters.

And I have to give my opinion to all members.

I found this thread 2 days ago. I suppose this is an amazingly useful forum thread!

With all due respect I believe that Mr. Ilkka Rissanen is a liar.

In the photos posted by Mr. Scoox clearly shown that the edges of the driver diffuser are damaged. Most likely, this is a constructive miscalculation on the stiffness of the paper. I have experienced this effect as I have designed drivers for a company in Czechoslovakia in the past (over 30 years ago).

With the wrong choice of materials for the driver diffuser (or rather, the wrong calculation of its stiffness), with a high input power, a large load on the diffuser arises, hence the delamination of the diffuser paper.

Mr. Ilkka Rissanen undoubtedly knows this effect (as an engineer), but he pretends that everything is fine.

After all, this is a complete fiasco! = Design miscalculation.

Of course, Mr. Ilkka Rissanen does not admit it, because the cost of each monitor is impressive 4 thousand dollars.
Plus you always need to save face.
So he is lying, instead of offering the owner of the disassembled monitor a driver replacement.

Please note, friends: on the production line (in the photos), all drivers are in perfect condition, the edges of the diffusers are smooth

We don't have to be a fan of the Genelec company, we should always try to figure it out, despite your hobbies for this or that brand.
Thank God that a member of the forum Mr. Scoox figured it out and told us about such a problem.
For me personally, buying Genelec speakers now is out of the question.
Dude I inspected my 8341s when I first purchased them new and they had the same rough edges that are in many pictures.
 

thewas

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After all, this is a complete fiasco!
I would really like to know the motivation why would someone register on a forum just for a post like this, maybe some personal vendetta or sock puppet?
 

thewas

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I doubt it he knows him personally
Most internet vengeances are (luckily) between people that have and will never meet in person, often it can be a bad experience with a product or that the product is getting feedback than the self beloved owned one.
 

YSC

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I would really like to know the motivation why would someone register on a forum just for a post like this, maybe some personal vendetta or sock puppet?
Maybe just for the sake of arguement or personal deception.

For me it’s simple: those buying these likely have measurement equipments or GLM. So if they calibrate it and saw it ultimately breaks at those points as in paper torn it should be pretty obvious in bass region. If it don’t break, why care?

And also let’s just say genelec is evil and involved in cover up. in the internet once that dissembling photo went out surely quite some potential buyers etc will be aware and with the bass slot, I am sure even though photo with a phone will be difficult but using a flash light and check inside is easy, ppl will check it by eye and back or refute what genelec representative said here. Then it surely will be a reputation disaster.

So in conclusion why should I bother further query here for something I don’t even own
 

Scoox

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Dude I inspected my 8341s when I first purchased them new and they had the same rough edges that are in many pictures.

I wouldn't go as far as to say anyone is a liar but, since Genelec's official response was that this is a feature, I was hoping they would have given a bit of insight. For example's sake, a very reasonable explanation might have been that 'the rough surface affects the flow of air in a way that helps prevent chuffing'—no design secrets are being disclosed, just a simple layman's terms explanation. Every PC enthusiast knows what Noctua vortex control notches are for, but nobody has access to the specific calculations that determine the shape and location of the notches. The only difference there though is that the Noctua vortex control notches are consistently identical from fan to fan, whereas the rough surface on the 8351A, as per Genelec's response, may vary from driver to driver, which implies a degree of randomness, which implies no two drivers are going to possess the same mechanical properties and durability. How much all this matters... only time will tell. For all I know those drivers might outlive me.
 
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Scoox

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At this point I'm beating a dead horse but FWIW I dropped the photo into GIMP and turned up the sharpness to see the alleged cracks a little better. I'm sure anyone building their own speakers would not be happy about a driver that looked like this:

Genelec 8351B woofer.png
 
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YSC

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At this point I'm beating a dead horse but FWIW I dropped the photo into GIMP and turned up the sharpness to see the alleged cracks a little better. I'm sure anyone building their own speakers would not be happy about a driver that looked like this:

View attachment 166053
Well comfort is another thing.

But those resembling torn or broken lines in this and I did go back and check the original photo. These are obvious over sharpening artefacts which makes the wrinkles looks like broken.

For sure you can be very uncomfortable yourself and thinks you’ve discovered some hidden evil, but as a photographer I am very sure it is only wrinkles like “folds” around the edges but nothing torn.

If you really feels it’s all design fault and you don’t own one, be free to don’t ever buy one and buy whatever you feel better, if you owned a pair I will be happy to do some garbage cleaning up without extra charge to let you move on to your next speaker
 

Scoox

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But those resembling torn or broken lines in this and I did go back and check the original photo. These are obvious over sharpening artefacts which makes the wrinkles looks like broken.
Just for the record, the sharpening was very conservative. I wasn't trying to make it look worse, I just wanted to see the edges a bit more clearly (which probably does look worse heh). In any case, every detail you see in the sharpened image is also visible in the original.
If you really feels it’s all design fault and you don’t own one, be free to don’t ever buy one and buy whatever you feel better, if you owned a pair I will be happy to do some garbage cleaning up without extra charge to let you move on to your next speaker
Well, I'm clearly not buying this product until I have seen it for myself in the flesh, which unfortunately won't be possible until spring next year. I would be much happier if Genelec would just post a couple of images to prove me wrong.
 
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YSC

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Just for the record, the sharpening was very conservative. I wasn't trying to make it look worse, I just wanted to see the edges a bit more clearly (which probably does look worse heh). In any case, every detail you see in the sharpened image is also visible in the original.

Well, I'm clearly not buying this product until I have seen it for myself in the flesh, which unfortunately won't be possible until spring next year. I would be much happier if Genelec would just post a couple of images to prove me wrong.
0D014F76-88D8-4541-B592-8E444A12BB40.jpeg


I mean this can’t be having holes in the original image or in real product, you can see the same artefacts here in the surrounds which is perfectly normal in original photo. These are just sharpening together with contrast enhance in the shadows making it looking like holes.
0F10B9FF-F74C-4602-80F8-9287914914A1.jpeg



And unfortunately I doubt Genelec will send a guy, go to the production line and take some close up shot for you to proof. Firstly no company will just keep spending ppl to proof something on internet. And i can imagine if they show that here, next question is accusing them of hand picking the problematic or failed batch out to take the photo just to cover up…

So here is the end of my PERSONAL opinion, when you’re in doubt, just skip it and let those who enjoys it enjoy
 

Scoox

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I mean this can’t be having holes in the original image or in real product, you can see the same artefacts here in the surrounds which is perfectly normal in original photo. These are just sharpening together with contrast enhance in the shadows making it looking like holes.
Nobody ever said the surround had any issues though...

Firstly no company will just keep spending ppl to proof something on internet.

I have no way to prove or disprove that claim, but I can say it is not uncommon for a company to provide photographic clarification where a photo is more effective than words. I've had such exchanges with Adam Audio, Modal Electronics, RME and Novation. Zero issues there a satisfactory resolution was reached very quickly.

Apart from this driver 'issue', I think Genelec products are perfect and I can't fault them. I've always thought very highly of Genelec's engineering.

And i can imagine if they show that here, next question is accusing them of hand picking the problematic or failed batch out to take the photo just to cover up…

No need to blow things out of proportion. If they had to hand-pick a dodgy batch that implies not all drivers are the same, i.e. some (probably most) are good, and a very few are not. In fact, no batch is 100% perfect. In that case they'd sooner acknowledge there might be a problem with the OP's particular monitor and offer to recall it for inspection. That would send the message 'we stand by our promise of quality'.

But, since Genelec have already said all monitors look like that, there are only two possible explanations: 1) the rough spot is critical to the monitor's functioning by design (despite looking uncomfortably odd), or 2) the rough spot doesn't serve any purpose but all monitors have it for no good or planned reason. If 2), it begs the question 'how will this driver be holding 5 years later?'. There are other explanations, for example that the rough spot appears after a period of use, but since all monitors have it out of the factory, that can't be.
 

YSC

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Nobody ever said the surround had any issues though...
My point is the same "bad looking feature appears in the surround, and if you look deeper can be seen in the screw holes/socket side on the dark, shadow part, which means those "holes" in the edge is very likely just sharpening artefact.

I am by no means saying Genelec is perfect in every aspect. but if it's their decision to put out bold word like this just let it be. I am sure for their reputation if you have case 2) and it breaks even in 10 years, ppl get a quote to failing driver replacement will kick them hard in the ... so no need to keep on saying they are dodgy and it's a huge problem. since they've put down the claim it's fine, then take it or leave it and enjoy the music. is there even a point to keep saying "god it looks bad" and when they publicly said no further respond to the issue will be given?

Just as a pre-clarification, I just know Genelec a year ago here and bought my first pair of speakers with a sub and enjoying, and by no means I will be buying from them in a decade or so, as if they don't break, I won't need to upgrade for nothing, if they breaks early, by no means I would buy again from them to risk;)
 

o7_brother

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This has to be some kind of elaborate troll. Surely no sensible person actually believes they have a deeper understanding of the long-term durability of driver materials than a reputable company like Genelec, which produces one excellent product after another?

Can you imagine a room full of Genelec engineers reading this thread and thinking to themselves "oh no, this person thinks our drivers look a bit weird after looking at a picture for 5 seconds, how did we never find this critical design flaw in our years and years of prototyping and development?"
 

Scoox

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My point is the same "bad looking feature appears in the surround, and if you look deeper can be seen in the screw holes/socket side on the dark, shadow part, which means those "holes" in the edge is very likely just sharpening artefact.

I am by no means saying Genelec is perfect in every aspect. but if it's their decision to put out bold word like this just let it be. I am sure for their reputation if you have case 2) and it breaks even in 10 years, ppl get a quote to failing driver replacement will kick them hard in the ... so no need to keep on saying they are dodgy and it's a huge problem. since they've put down the claim it's fine, then take it or leave it and enjoy the music. is there even a point to keep saying "god it looks bad" and when they publicly said no further respond to the issue will be given?

Just as a pre-clarification, I just know Genelec a year ago here and bought my first pair of speakers with a sub and enjoying, and by no means I will be buying from them in a decade or so, as if they don't break, I won't need to upgrade for nothing, if they breaks early, by no means I would buy again from them to risk;)

FWIW support told me the terms of warranty are being reviewed. I don't have any specific details but if that means 2 years being extended to 5, the chances of me buying a pair of 8351Bs would increase quite a bit and I would be much happier accepting their statement. But I get what you say that there is an 'implicit warranty' if their most iconic product starts failing one or two years past warranty expiration. They don't have to, but it would be in their best interest to recall and repair the faulty monitors if it turns out to be a design quality issue. Of course that doesn't take away the fact that it is a hassle for the product owner (downtime, etc).
 
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