Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

[anphex]

I am kind of missing the impulse response here. Would it be possible to feed the speaker a super short signal and see how well the membrane follows?

 

[FrantzM]

In these objectivist parts of the audiophile world, you’d have to be at least a little bit crazy to spend $22k in amplifiers to power $15-20k speakers, when we know it’s not going to make an audible difference other than total power delivery.

A few thousand for some good Hypex or Purifi amps is likely all you likely need. Several Salon2 owners even just use Benchmark AHB2 amps which aren’t nearly as powerful and are very happy with them and don’t run into the clipping indicator.

I will edit and add "total" ... to at least $24,000 ...

 

[Olius]

In these objectivist parts of the audiophile world, you’d have to be at least a little bit crazy to spend $22k in amplifiers to power $15-20k speakers, when we know it’s not going to make an audible difference other than total power delivery.

A few thousand for some good Hypex or Purifi amps is likely all you likely need. Several Salon2 owners even just use Benchmark AHB2 amps which aren’t nearly as powerful and are very happy with them and don’t run into the clipping indicator.

I assumed he meant $22k for the speakers and $2k for a suitable amp which would be $24k added up. So I think you are in agreement on that!

 

[kimmosto]

For some reason your measurement above has ten times the bulk delay there is in reality. Correct bulk delay for 8351B is about 3.1 ms (for analogue input >1 kHz).

I guess distance is set to 10 meters while exporting data from NFS. That would add extra 29 ms.

 

[echopraxia]

I will edit and add "total" ... to at least $24,000 ...

Oops my mistake for totally misinterpreting you. Yeah, it takes at least a few thousand dollars to get a powerful amp competent enough for the Salon2’s. The remaining difference is that the Salon2’s often are on sale while the 8351B’s never go below Genelec’s controlled price in the US market.

 

[Kachda]

It’s worth pointing out that Amir didn’t say the Salon2’s go louder, but that their bass goes much louder (and deeper). This should be a surprise to nobody, given that each Salon2 has 3x 8” high performance (sub)woofers in a 4-way speaker, vs the equivalent of just one 8” woofer on the 8351B as a 3-way speaker. When subwoofers or the W371 is involved to unload the bass power, I wouldn’t be surprised if the 8351B at least matches the Salon2’s SPL capabilities.

For movie content, I actually found my Genelec 8351B’s (when crossed with subwoofers) to in some ways sound more “dynamic” than the Salon2’s. But I don’t think this is due to any actual heard distortion at the levels I was driving them, but rather because the 8351B’s narrower beam gives a somewhat more frontal and energetic feeling vs the more spacious feeling of the Salon2’s.

P.S. I own Revel Salon2’s and Genelec 8351B’s and have written subjective impressions comparing them around these forums from time to time. I’ve owned and lived with the 8351B’s for a while now, though Amir has much more ear time with his Salon2’s. I’m happy to answer any other questions about subjective impression differences between these, but my impressions I’ve written (which you can find in my post history) essentially match exactly what Amir has said (though I go into a bit more detail with where I find the 8351B’s strengths win out, and similarly what scenarios the Salon’s really shine).

I read in another post that you are moving to NYC - when is the housewarming party and how do I get invited please ?

 

[RobS]

What amplifier are you using with the Salon 2?

 

[Sprint]

This raises the question of sensitivity. In a surround application could they go to sleep and then wake up but with a delay to the output?

I do not think so and at least I did not experience this delay. I always keep it switched on. Mine is on default setting that comes out of the box. I did not change anything in GLM either. The minute audio signal is available, they are active instantly.

 

[skyfly]

There is a very small amount of BBC dip.

 

[JustJones]

Hi,

You can adjust both sleep delay (2 min - 4 hours) and sensitivity (three steps) from the GLM.

I've never been able to get sleep through ISS to work using AES3 input. It says something in the manual that it might not work using digital in as the source keeps a signal to the speaker. Am I not understanding something? I keep GLM connected (not to computer) and use the remote to turn everything on and off.

 

[pierre]

I've never been able to get sleep through ISS to work using AES3 input. It says something in the manual that it might not work using digital in as the source keeps a signal to the speaker. Am I not understanding something? I keep GLM connected (not to computer) and use the remote to turn everything on and off.

Same here. It doesn’t work with aes.

 

[JustJones]

I wish the remote worked better sometimes I have push on/off 4 or 5 or even more times, they need to work on the remote to be honest it sucks.

 

[MBI]

Is feeding "The Ones" with a DAC-less digital AES/EBU input from a simple streamer (such as an AES/EBU hat onto a RoPieee running Rpi4, for example) instead of a high SINAD DAC's analog output expected to give similar results or not?

In other words, does anybody know how "The Ones" embarked digital to analog conversion compare with top rated DACs feeding them?

(Trying to find the best quality, simplest and most direct way to connect 8351B to a Nucleus.)

P.S. Very many thanks for the review!

 

[pierre]

Is feeding "The Ones" with a DAC-less digital AES/EBU input from a simple streamer (such as an AES/EBU hat onto a RoPieee running Rpi4, for example) instead of a high SINAD DAC's analog output expected to give similar results or not?

In other words, does anybody know how "The Ones" embarked digital to analog conversion compare with top rated DACs feeding them?

(Trying to find the best quality, simplest and most direct way to connect 8351B to a Nucleus.)

P.S. Very many thanks for the review!

I think there is always an AD/DA loop when you feed the Ones with analog. No point to invest in an expensive dac, the built-in one will ruin it
I am pretty sure the builtin one is transparent. A AES hat on the on an RPi works well.

 

[daftcombo]

I think there is always an AD/DA loop when you feed the Ones with analog. No point to invest in an expensive dac, the built-in one will ruin it
I am pretty sure the builtin one is transparent.

Will the built-in DAC ruin it or is it transparent? Contradiction detected.

 

[pierre]

Will the built-in DAC ruin it or is it transparent? Contradiction detected.

Another way to phrase it: a 120 SINAD dac will be wasted ; it can still be very very transparent. Each time I do a blind test between 2 dacs I get convinced that dac doesn't matter at all.

 

[samysound]

Is feeding "The Ones" with a DAC-less digital AES/EBU input from a simple streamer (such as an AES/EBU hat onto a RoPieee running Rpi4, for example) instead of a high SINAD DAC's analog output expected to give similar results or not?

In other words, does anybody know how "The Ones" embarked digital to analog conversion compare with top rated DACs feeding them?

(Trying to find the best quality, simplest and most direct way to connect 8351B to a Nucleus.)

P.S. Very many thanks for the review!

The analog signal will be converted to digital anyways. might as well avoid the additional conversion and feed the speakers directly with digital.

 

[daftcombo]

Another way to phrase it: a 120 SINAD dac will be wasted ; it can still be very very transparent. Overtime I do a blind test between 2 dacs I get convinced that dac doesn't matter at all.

It is true with all speakers then, not only Genelec with GLM.

 

[echopraxia]

Will the built-in DAC ruin it or is it transparent? Contradiction detected.

There is a subtlety here that is perhaps being missed: An audibly transparent DAC is only referring to a single conversion pass. Every extra time you convert back and forth just keeps adding more and more distortion. In reality, you can probably do this quite a few times without getting audible. But if you pass a signal through any DAC > ADC > DAC > etc. enough times (even if each DAC/ADC is audibly transparent for a single pass), I think you’re eventually going to reach 100% distortion (it may have to be hundreds of passes to get there though)

But anyway, there’s no doubt that a high end DAC feeding Genelec 8351B’s is definitely at best wasted money, when that signal will just be converted back to digital then back to analog again once for each driver (since the 8351B is a digital active crossover design). Whether this qualifies as “ruining” the point of a high end DAC depends on how much you care about the fact that it’s a waste of money at best and a quality reduction at worst versus feeding the 8351B’s directly with a digital signal.

 

[echopraxia]

I read in another post that you are moving to NYC - when is the housewarming party and how do I get invited please ?

No plans yet, but this could lead to some interesting potential opportunities for a Salon2 vs 8351B shootout / blind test with a good number of listeners