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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

It's not particularly difficult to make them complain without hitting the limiters. Sub heavy content (hip hop, especially) even at reasonable levels will do it.

If you need a good example, Hey Now on Kendrick Lamar's new album will do it. That's a speaker killer.
Either speakers are faulty or its your room cause i watch movies at 1.5m distance at about 100db.
Movies have way more bass content as you know. No problem, no distortion whatsoever, ofcourse my room is not big (4m length 3m width).
My topping dx9 shows it have 25db to 30db reserve depending on the movie, i cant see the world where it distorts unless room is too big or problematic.

In amir case i completely understand limitations cause he is living in a big house i assume and he had only 1 speaker.
 
Either speakers are faulty or its your room cause i watch movies at 1.5m distance at about 100db.
Movies have way more bass content as you know. No problem, no distortion whatsoever, ofcourse my room is not big (4m length 3m width).
My topping dx9 shows it have 25db to 30db reserve depending on the movie, i cant see the world where it distorts unless room is too big or problematic.

In amir case i completely understand limitations cause he is living in a big house i assume and he had only 1 speaker.
I don’t think anything was wrong with speakers or room. I tried “Hey Now” on my 8361A’s and I could light up the limiters at about 96dB at 3m. I do have a 3dB boost on the bass in GLM, so could probably play it a bit louder if speakers were flat. Like @dfuller noted, that track is a speaker killer. :) Since the 8361A have 4.5x the power on tap for the woofers I can see that 8351’s might struggle with that track. ;)
 
I don’t think anything was wrong with speakers or room. I tried “Hey Now” on my 8361A’s and I could light up the limiters at about 96dB at 3m. I do have a 3dB boost on the bass in GLM, so could probably play it a bit louder if speakers were flat. Like @dfuller noted, that track is a speaker killer. :) Since the 8361A have 4.5x the power on tap for the woofers I can see that 8351’s might struggle with that track. ;)
96dB at 3m is bloody loud, though - so I'm perhaps less surprised that even the 61 wasn't happy doing that. They're about in the same ballpark as the KH420s in terms of SPL capabilities and that would be taxing for them without subs.
 
This is why I say I'd like to see the data - based on this I'm not ready to conclude that the 8351b's have any notable compression above, say, 40Hz when playing around 90dB SPL at 1M.
FWIW I haven't tested as low as 40hz because i think subs are a requirement but I have tested compression in room @ 2.8m with a single 8351B crossed at 100hz.

It's dead flat at 100dB and there's maybe 1dB of compression at 105dB in the mid 100s. The speaker is several feet away from the walls which are mostly glass windows as well, so they're not getting as much room gain as they could close to a normal wall.

I suppose I could turn the subs off and run some sweeps although it's hard to get clean results with how uneven the bass from a single speaker is even after EQ.

All this said IMO if you're really sold on a no sub setup, you should always buy 8361As. But speaker bass sucks, no matter the speaker, so I'll never figure out the point of that.

P.S. Genelecs own "long term" 8351B spec for bass is 103dB in half space. This is with IEC noise that is effectively pink noise so it's mainly a bass test. Genelec's SPL specs are all pretty good as far as I've ever seen tested or tried myself.
 
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It's dead flat at 100dB and there's maybe 1dB of compression at 105dB in the mid 100s.
The mid-100s are not a taxing region, not like real low end.
 
The mid-100s are not a taxing region, not like real low end.
Yeah I understand that, I was just presenting the data I have. I am sure compression starts in the 90s below 50hz. I am not sure what happens between 50-100hz.

It's a pain to retest this because I'll need to disable the subs and redo GLM to try to get the low end as flat as I can, and even then I don't know if I can get a single speaker flat enough to test this properly. Compression tests work well with the subs because they're pretty close to flat at the listening position, if the low end of a speaker is really messy between 50-100hz I'm not sure how good a test it will be. And I'm definitely not taking it outside :)

In my view anything smaller than a 15" woofer should always be paired with multiple subs so it's all a bit academic to me.
 
Very interesting thread here about the Genelec 8351b's.

I am considering these speakers or the larger 8361a big brother but had a few questions that hopefully this group might be able to answer.

Question #1
Has anyone successfully used the 83xx "The Ones" line-up while using a non-Genelec Sub, bypassing all GLM options for room correction purposes? I've gone thru most of this thread and don't recall seeing anyone mention this but I could have missed it?

I know the GLM feature set appears to make things nice and easy for fixing basic room related issues but my concern is the granularity of the GLM software. Many times the "Easy Button" isn't necessarily the best option, its just the easiest as the name suggests.

For those not afraid to swim in the deep end of room correction using software tools like Audiolense/Acourate..etc (for example); can these speakers be configured to ignore whatever black magic Genelec is using for their room correction and instead be told to use whatever black magic the new owner decides they want to use instead for room correction? There seems to be very little discussion of this option while using Genelec monitors around the web but maybe there is good reason for that which escapes me?

I understand that by using some other means to correct room related issues you will not be able to store those settings within the speaker itself and that is perfectly fine by me. I am only interested in extracting the most performance possible from my future investment.

Question # 2

Its been mentioned multiple times as a concern in this thread and others around the web about "The Ones" ultimate SPL output when playing them at higher levels depending on listening distance. If we were to assume that a Sub/Multiple Subs will be used with either the 8351b's or the 8361a's and the new owners listening habbits leaned more towards the aggressive side of playback volume (say the target being 105db steady state for multiple hours stright) would either of these monitors be able to handle that without a sign any audible signs of distress? Lets assume they would be crossed over at 60hz for the sake of conversation.

I am looking for a monitor that can handle these levels (assuming the use of a sub or 3) and not be phased or start flashing distortion lights like a Christmas tree in the process.

Some may say use a full range tower for such a use case but lets also assume the room they will be placed in is not large enough or suitable to accomdate such a speaker. Lets say listening distance will be 9-10ft from the front plane of the speaker and the main listening area of the room is 16.5' L x 15.5' W (256sq/ft) which opens into a kitchen area which adds another 11ft to the main listening room length (just more length/volume to consider in terms of overall dimensions).

Final thoughts:::

Would I be trying to reinvent the wheel by attempting to use either of these two Genelec monitors in the use case above?

As an FYI, I am coming from a main audio system (which I still own) that is full range, uses large towers and multiple subs. This setup was used in a much larger space before (I moved) but I may have to sell it off due to my new space being much smaller. At the same time, I would love to not give up too much of what I enjoyed before sound wise while using the larger system in the larger room...if possible, but I do relize this might be a pipe dream. In short, the new room is not idealy suited for my previous equipment. The room is just not big enough (in all directions, LxWxH)

Would you keep the larger system and make it work in the smaller room or do you think either of the two Genelec options mentioned (with subs) could fulfill the requirements outlined?

Thanks for any thoughts you can provide
 
GLM is very very good, while being simple to use.
With my 8361a in my room, I like GLM better than what I can achieve with Audiolense generated convolution filters.

The hardest thing about subs is proper integration. GLM with appropriate Genelec subs absolutely nails this. If you can integrate subs then non Genelec/GLM options can be used like any other speaker.
 
Question #1
Has anyone successfully used the 83xx "The Ones" line-up while using a non-Genelec Sub, bypassing all GLM options for room correction purposes? I've gone thru most of this thread and don't recall seeing anyone mention this but I could have missed it?...

Question # 2
Its been mentioned multiple times as a concern in this thread and others around the web about "The Ones" ultimate SPL output when playing them at higher levels depending on listening distance...

Great questions for a New Year. Floorstanders come with benefits, beyond headroom and low frequency extension. However, the main advantage has been somewhat kept a secret; due to a stubborn and detrimental simplification of reproduced sound in engineering literature: Disregard for inter-aural time domain coherency at low frequency. In case LF inter-aural time and magnitude differences have been recorded across channels, and made it safely through a reproduction chain, it is such a pity to kill Auditory Envelopment (AE) at the last stage, by using mono sub(s) with bookshelf/nearfield monitors. That’s game over before even started.

Floorstander-users expect at least some ability of a room and system to convey AE, possibly the most universal and enjoyable dimension the human auditory system is able to declare. The topic has been discussed before on ASR, and we will report from new studies in 2025. To the questions:

Genelec 83 series monitors include extensive per channel frequency domain and time domain adjustment capability. The GLM application can be used to adjust those parameters automatically, manually or in a combination of both. You might also make adjustments upstream instead, or partly upstream and partly in the 83s. Anyway, settings may be stored and set in stone per monitor. Settings will stay the same despite power-down; until GLM is connected again and deliberate changes made.

Building your own subs, for instance into walls, or buying a different brand, is therefore also fine. Because of AE, I would *always* use at least two sub channels. If later movement of subs will be impossible, consider listening to AE test samples before committing to placement. If two subs are not possible, I would not cross-over higher than 40 Hz.

Regarding hearing safety, with an average listening level of 105 dB(A), according to the clinical gold standard, adults should be listening for no more than 2 minutes per day (risk of material hearing loss ~1%). Happy New Year :)
 
Disregard for inter-aural time domain coherency at low frequency. In case LF inter-aural time and magnitude differences have been recorded across channels, and made it safely through a reproduction chain, it is such a pity to kill Auditory Envelopment (AE) at the last stage, by using mono sub(s) with bookshelf/nearfield monitors. That’s game over before even started.
:)
I agree. Full range stereo should be standardized, no summing of LF content to mono. As long as music is produced in stereo (or more) full range, reproduction should follow. Genelec could perhaps take initiative and say "no" to LF summing, and promote stereo sub setups? Half off sub #2 :D?
 
Applications will always differ; but FWIW, I continue to use GLM over DIRAC (which is otherwise available in my chain with miniDSP SHD) for latency reasons. That alone makes it worth it over the other potential option, which is noticeably laggy.
 
This may be of interest to you
 
I appreciate the replies to my questions about he 8351b's.

Now I'm going to ask a dumb question.

My understanding is that the 83xx Genelec's use digital x-overs. If someone doesn't use GLM, is there a pre-configured set of x-over points baked into the speaker for each driver section that is still used when GLM is not part of the configuration picture? I would hope so but I'm not sure.

Am I correct in assuming that while using a different Sub/Subs from another mfr with the 83xx Genelec's that the other Sub/Subs will not even appear in the GLM configuration menu meaning you would be required to use an outside means for room corrections anyway at that point (ie..Audiolense/Acourate/Dirac..etc)?

For me to switch over to using Genelec Subs would be like committing financial suicide given that I already have a hefty investment in another well known/respected brand.

Back to GLM....while reading thru the User manual, it appears that GLM can provide around 20 points of correction across the Freq band depending on speaker model. At least two of those possible correction points look to be greyed out and tied to what they call Sound Character Profiler.

"NOTE: Filters Low Shelf 1 and High Shelf 1 are shared with the Sound Character Profiler"

If someone uses the Sound Character Profiler editor, are all the remaining points of correction no longer available for tweaking or can you use SCP plus the remaining points to further adjust the target curve?

As a side note, it appears a better match for my previously listed listening output scenario mentioned in my first post is the Genelec S360 monitor. My concern with those though is the somewhat limited Vertical dispersion they have (looks to be around 20-25Deg). I would be worried they may require someone to sit more head locked into the listening chair as to not fall outside the ideal dispersion range even if the speakers were ideally aimed at ones ears. The Ones don't appear to have that limitation but of course have less distance capabilities.

I think my best option for now will be to purchase the 8341's for my desk setup and use GLM there to get a better sense of how it can be tweaked before taking the financial dive into the larger options for the main listening room (I was going to do this anyway outside of my questions here about the 8351b/8361a).

Thanks
 
I appreciate the replies to my questions about he 8351b's.

Now I'm going to ask a dumb question.

My understanding is that the 83xx Genelec's use digital x-overs. If someone doesn't use GLM, is there a pre-configured set of x-over points baked into the speaker for each driver section that is still used when GLM is not part of the configuration picture? I would hope so but I'm not sure.

Am I correct in assuming that while using a different Sub/Subs from another mfr with the 83xx Genelec's that the other Sub/Subs will not even appear in the GLM configuration menu meaning you would be required to use an outside means for room corrections anyway at that point (ie..Audiolense/Acourate/Dirac..etc)?

For me to switch over to using Genelec Subs would be like committing financial suicide given that I already have a hefty investment in another well known/respected brand.

Back to GLM....while reading thru the User manual, it appears that GLM can provide around 20 points of correction across the Freq band depending on speaker model. At least two of those possible correction points look to be greyed out and tied to what they call Sound Character Profiler.

"NOTE: Filters Low Shelf 1 and High Shelf 1 are shared with the Sound Character Profiler"

If someone uses the Sound Character Profiler editor, are all the remaining points of correction no longer available for tweaking or can you use SCP plus the remaining points to further adjust the target curve?

As a side note, it appears a better match for my previously listed listening output scenario mentioned in my first post is the Genelec S360 monitor. My concern with those though is the somewhat limited Vertical dispersion they have (looks to be around 20-25Deg). I would be worried they may require someone to sit more head locked into the listening chair as to not fall outside the ideal dispersion range even if the speakers were ideally aimed at ones ears. The Ones don't appear to have that limitation but of course have less distance capabilities.

I think my best option for now will be to purchase the 8341's for my desk setup and use GLM there to get a better sense of how it can be tweaked before taking the financial dive into the larger options for the main listening room (I was going to do this anyway outside of my questions here about the 8351b/8361a).

Thanks
Genelec glm integration is just perfect.
If i were to buy new speakers for DESKTOP listening, i would get 8331s + genelec 7360.
Cant see reason why 8341 exist since it has same mid+ high drivers as 31s and when crossing sub at 80hz, 31s EASILY suffice in desktop setting with lot of headroom to spare.
 
Genelec glm integration is just perfect.
If i were to buy new speakers for DESKTOP listening, i would get 8331s + genelec 7360.
Cant see reason why 8341 exist since it has same mid+ high drivers as 31s and when crossing sub at 80hz, 31s EASILY suffice in desktop setting with lot of headroom to spare.
I did consider the 8331's but I like that the 8341's have a fairly large margin of additional amplifier power on tap compared to 8331's and I do tend to sit several feet back away from the desk at times while listening to music in the target room. So given the price of entry just to acquire the smallest 8331's the last thing I want is to not to at least fill the room with sound after dropping $5K. So to me the extra cost of the 8341's is worth it to ensure I wont be disappointed in any potential listening position I might find myself in within the office space I am working with

I have no plans or room to add a sub to this space
 
8331 Amplifier Power

1735875883378.png


8341 Amplifier Power

1735875919011.png
 
@Thomas Lund
With reviews like those on ASR, the One's are gaining more and more acceptance in the consumer/home market. I know, because Iam one such user! I frequently see posts from potential buyers weary of not being able to easily use non-Genelec subs with GLM, sometimes a deciding purchasing factor.
Any plans to address this in GLM, or will it remain a system for only Genelec subs?
 
@Thomas Lund
With reviews like those on ASR, the One's are gaining more and more acceptance in the consumer/home market. I know, because Iam one such user! I frequently see posts from potential buyers weary of not being able to easily use non-Genelec subs with GLM, sometimes a deciding purchasing factor.
Any plans to address this in GLM, or will it remain a system for only Genelec subs?
Interesting question but given the way GLM works the electronics needing adding to the outside users SUB would be expensive, and from a Genelec perspective, pointless, excercise I would imagine.
 
Question #1
Has anyone successfully used the 83xx "The Ones" line-up while using a non-Genelec Sub, bypassing all GLM options for room correction purposes? I've gone thru most of this thread and don't recall seeing anyone mention this but I could have missed it?
I'm using 8351B + 4 SVS subs and Dirac Live Bass Control via a NAD M66. Have not tried GLM so can't say if I'm missing out, but I already had SVS subs.

The M66 is a pretty expensive, stereo-only solution, however, the results of DLBC seem decent enough.

This is an old measurement in my untreated living room with sub-optimal speaker placement and probably too much bass.:D

Not sure how I'd improve the 150-500Hz dip.

1735902582539.png
 
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