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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

genelec 8381a.png
 
What volume are you guys playing the 8351b's at, and what size rooms are you listening in? I can't get their limiter lights to go on, let alone their clipping lights, at any volume I can stand to be in the room with, in my 25-30 sq meter (300 sq feet) room.
 
What volume are you guys playing the 8351b's at, and what size rooms are you listening in? I can't get their limiter lights to go on, let alone their clipping lights, at any volume I can stand to be in the room with, in my 25-30 sq meter (300 sq feet) room.
It's not particularly difficult to make them complain without hitting the limiters. Sub heavy content (hip hop, especially) even at reasonable levels will do it.

If you need a good example, Hey Now on Kendrick Lamar's new album will do it. That's a speaker killer.
 
So, I've gotten to listen to these recently. They sound great. But holy crap, they have zero headroom in the low end. They compress so, so fast. Not even "hitting the limiters", they just run out of steam and distort.
If you use them as floortander from 2.5, 3m or more distance, i can understand you.
Ofcourse that is not intented usage for these, so i dont understand what are you rambling about? I often see people over here using small speakers or standmounts like these as if those can substitue floorstanders.

All ones have enough headroom as long as you use them how they are intended.
 
If you need a good example, Hey Now on Kendrick Lamar's new album will do it. That's a speaker killer.
This is what my RTA shows as the most prominent frequency band, so not surprising at all. Peaks are even higher in the 28hz band in some parts of the track.
Kendrick Lamar Hey Now RTA.jpg


What input signal levels people are feeding their speakers who say that there is no headroom? (Right click in GLM -> Show info) I run everything through a digital mixer and AES/EBU output signal is -18dBFS (analog output = +4dBu). Never had any headroom or sound quality problems.
 
If you use them as floortander from 2.5, 3m or more distance, i can understand you.
Ofcourse that is not intented usage for these, so i dont understand what are you rambling about? I often see people over here using small speakers or standmounts like these as if those can substitue floorstanders.

All ones have enough headroom as long as you use them how they are intended.
First, I don't appreciate being told I'm rambling, especially considering it's just my experience.

Second, this was just behind a console, so about 1.5m.
 
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This is what my RTA shows as the most prominent frequency band, so not surprising at all. Peaks are even higher in the 28hz band in some parts of the track.
View attachment 415209

What input signal levels people are feeding their speakers who say that there is no headroom? (Right click in GLM -> Show info) I run everything through a digital mixer and AES/EBU output signal is -18dBFS (analog output = +4dBu). Never had any headroom or sound quality problems.

This album sound distorted by choice in the low end with soft and dry vocals floating above, I like the production. Anyway, if these weren't enough imagine how it would sound on KH310 which have something like 20dB more of distortion at those frequencies and high level playback compared to 8351B

Screenshot 2024-12-20 at 13.49.11.png


Neumann KH310AMeasurements Spinorama  Absolute Distortion vs Frequency THD.png
 
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This album sound distorted by choice in the low end with soft and dry vocals floating above, I like the production. Anyway, imagine how it would sound on KH310 which have something like 20dB more of distortion at those frequencies and high level playback compared to 8351B

View attachment 415239

View attachment 415240
Oh, the 310 without a sub is not pretty at all with this, and even with one it can't really keep up. We've been demoing some speakers here including the 8351s and 310s. The 310s can't keep up, at all.

The 420s can and that 31hz sine - it's a C, btw - is clean even at pretty high levels. But I'm not surprised by this, the 8361 can hang at the kind of levels we're working at too.
 
Oh, the 310 without a sub is not pretty at all with this, and even with one it can't really keep up. We've been demoing some speakers here including the 8351s and 310s. The 310s can't keep up, at all.

The 420s can and that 31hz sine - it's a C, btw - is clean even at pretty high levels. But I'm not surprised by this, the 8361 can hang at the kind of levels we're working at.
All of these smaller monitors should be used with a sub or subs anyway, especially in a rather dry control rooms where there's no room gain and the subjective levels can be deceptively low, while in reality they are on the edge of breaking up
 
It's not particularly difficult to make them complain without hitting the limiters. Sub heavy content (hip hop, especially) even at reasonable levels will do it.

If you need a good example, Hey Now on Kendrick Lamar's new album will do it. That's a speaker killer.

Thanks for your reply, I guess we just have different experiences or perhaps we consider different SPL levels to be loud or too-loud and so on.

I listen to my 8351b's from about 2.75M away, and my room would be considered medium-size I suppose.

I don't listen super-loud by the standards of a lot of folks here - about 85-90dB peak at my listening position at the most, so as to preserve my hearing, and simply because that's plenty loud for me. Given my listening distance I suppose the official 1M SPL for that volume level would be somewhere in the range of 90-100dB peak, depending on the real-world loss in my space, yes?

I'm not a professional engineer, and I don't play a lot of music with a lot of heavy bass, but I do have some, like some Beyonce, a lot of Massive Attack, and several other albums and songs that I think most folks here would agree feature a good deal of lower bass. I won't pretend to have any idea whether the THD of the frequencies below 100Hz is 1%, 3%, or 5%, 10%, or whatever. But I do know from other, less capable speakers I own what bass breakup sounds like - I know what clearly audible distortion levels sound like, I know what bottoming out sounds like, what audible chuffing and bass-induced cabinet resonances sound like, and so on. And I've experienced none of that with the 8351b's.

I suppose it's possible some bass compression is happening and I'm simply not noticing it, although it seems like that's the kind of thing that would be pretty noticeable. I would be very interested to see a compression test of the 8351b's. I don't think Amir did that - does anyone know if Erin or someone else has published compression measurements for this speaker?
 
Maybe the 8361 will have enough bass but you disliked them too if I remember correctly
I don't dislike these Genelecs because I have never auditioned them. However I do prefer other configurations to the relatively narrow columns with multiple small diameter bass/mid drivers.
 
If you haven’t heard them how can you say you prefer something else?
Keith
 
If you haven’t heard them how can you say you prefer something else?
Keith
For most, the starting point of speaker design is the physical aspect and dimensions. I can say that in general I prefer a different approach, Speaker designers are told by their ceo, after market research, what the physical aspect should be, and that they must adapt their design to fit these requirements. That is not , in my opinion, an ideal starting point.
 
For most, the starting point of speaker design is the physical aspect and dimensions. I can say that in general I prefer a different approach, Speaker designers are told by their ceo, after market research, what the physical aspect should be, and that they must adapt their design to fit these requirements. That is not , in my opinion, an ideal starting point.
That's like the exact opposite of Genelec's design philosophy
 
For most, the starting point of speaker design is the physical aspect and dimensions. I can say that in general I prefer a different approach, Speaker designers are told by their ceo, after market research, what the physical aspect should be, and that they must adapt their design to fit these requirements. That is not , in my opinion, an ideal starting point.

Of course you should prefer what you prefer - this is all about enjoyment, and the form factor and appearance of speakers is a big part of that since we're looking at them whenever we're listening.

With that said, by this point you have found two or three different ways (across various comments in this thread) to try to claim that tall speakers with lots of separate drivers are inherently sonically superior. I don't think that's necessarily the case. I do agree that the laws of physics impose some real limits on small speakers, on very small bass drivers, and on two-way systems. But there are plenty of standmount speakers that are not substantially impacted by those limits because they are 3-way, with large enough bass drivers, and sufficiently sound and robust designs.
 
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Ultimately there is no replacement for displacement - and that is very much an Achilles' heel in most actives, they get pushed hard in the low end and have compromised SPL handling.

I suppose it's possible some bass compression is happening and I'm simply not noticing it, although it seems like that's the kind of thing that would be pretty noticeable.
You'd be surprised at how bad people are at noticing dynamics.
 
Ultimately there is no replacement for displacement - and that is very much an Achilles' heel in most actives, they get pushed hard in the low end and have compromised SPL handling.


You'd be surprised at how bad people are at noticing dynamics.

i understand about displacement. I suspect we're just coming from slightly different perspectives in terms of degree. As for being bad at noticing dynamics, I'm still not convinced - I'd like to see some test data on these speakers' compression behavior.
 
Ultimately there is no replacement for displacement - and that is very much an Achilles' heel in most actives, they get pushed hard in the low end and have compromised SPL handling.


You'd be surprised at how bad people are at noticing dynamics.

Sorry for the 2nd response to the same comment, but I just remembered that Erin has reviewed the smaller 8331a:


Here's the compression test results for that one:

Genelec 8331A_Compression.png


At 86dB it looks like about 0.2dB max compression from 50Hz upwards. At 96dB it looks like 0.4dB max compression from about 65Hz updwards.

I assume we should ignore the upward bumps around 45Hz as that's distortion, not compression per se.

That leaves the -1.3dB SPL dip around 52Hz at 96dB SPL.

The 8331a's "racetrack" woofers are 2.6 x 5.1 inches, which is pretty tiny.

The 8351b's I believe are 4x8 inches, which is more than 2x the surface area.

This is why I say I'd like to see the data - based on this I'm not ready to conclude that the 8351b's have any notable compression above, say, 40Hz when playing around 90dB SPL at 1M.

I'm not saying I know they don't - just saying I'm not prepared to believe they do and would love to see some data.
 
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This is why I say I'd like to see the data - based on this I'm not ready to conclude that the 8351b's have any notable compression above, say, 40Hz when playing around 90dB SPL at 1M.

I'm not saying I know they don't - just saying I'm not prepared to believe they do and would love to see some data.
Let's take a few things into account with that, FWIW.

1 - music tilts down roughly like pink noise, so it has much more energy at LF than at HF. Erin's tests are good (certainly better than not having it!) but I'd consider it worth doing pink noise bursts instead of sine sweeps as his test does.
2. Music has a pretty serious crest factor. If your average level is 80dB, peaks (where you'd notice compression, most of the time) may be around 90-95dB.
3. Given that information, a kick drum or 808 can be revealing of compression behavior even at relatively moderate levels. If your level is ~83dB(A) at 1m, it may well peak in the bass on transients closer to 100dB.
 
My "feel-good-volume" is around 70-80 dB depending on the genre/mood. I just measured my pair of 8331A from a distance of 1m with bass-heavy music (without subwoofer). The lowest volume where clipping occured was 92 dB. When listening to music normally, there seems to be 25-35% power reserve left if I can trust the level display:

normal.jpg


In everyday use, the speakers only clipped once they were unintentionally fed with a 0 dB signal. I was extremely shocked when this happened and, as an immediate reaction, turned off everything with the switch under my desk. Since then I have stored -30 dB as the maximum input signal in the speakers.:)

It seems doubtful to me that the problem described here actually occurs with the 8351B. In order to avoid typical problems in desktop operation with cancellations/reflections: Why not choose a slightly more expensive combination of 2x 8341A and 7360A (or 2x 7350A)?
 
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