In my room, with GLM setup, my 8361A’s are absolutely not messy in low frequencies. And this even goes with tracks I’ve been listening to for over 20 years, so I know these recordings inside out. But I can only speak for my room, which does indeed have some treatment.
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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)
- Thread starter amirm
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I guess with an anechoic neutral speaker with well extended bass, just randomly putting them inside the room with make the bass gain sounded messy
tmtomh
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Thinking more about this, there is one thing I should mention: I have always tended to prefer speakers to be toed out slightly more than the norm (or at least more than what seems to always be recommended).
I want to be as clear and precise as I can here: my understanding of "normal" stereo speaker angling is that you draw a line from the center of the L and R speaker's front baffle, and those two lines meet at the listening position.
I prefer my speakers a little toed out relative to that norm, maybe 15(?) degrees.
I mention this because in my experience the presence region is the main thing that's impacted by toe-in/toe-out of speakers.
On the other hand, I'm happy with the Genelecs toed in a bit more than my prior two speaker setups, so...
As for bass, when I've taken in-room measurements I have found the LF response a lot messier than the Spinorama's in-room estimation shows - but I think that's normal. I've actually been surprised at the converse: I ran Genelec's GLM on my 8351s and the measurements of the "after" were messier and less "corrected" looking than I'd expected - but the audible difference was immediate and super-obvious.
Pearljam5000
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Something went wrong there for sure
Alice of Old Vincennes
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sure, I was trying to say that whenit's anechoic neutral instead of an early roll off, the bass gain will really stood out and mess up everything else, we usually don't percieve the nulls but annoyed by peaks so using the genelecs in normal sized room without engaging at least the bass presets for in room use is likely to make it stand out more
Alice of Old Vincennes
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Pearljam5000
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Maybe he just likes the less analytical /forward sound of the ATCs and KH420.
Genelec have a love or hate type of sound.
I don't know many that like both the ATC and Genelec sound
Genelec have a love or hate type of sound.
I don't know many that like both the ATC and Genelec sound
I think they do, actually. Some Genelec waveguides is more constant in the directivity above 2-3 khz, which means there will be a flattening out of the in-room response in the high frequencies.
The estimated in-room response shows a near flat response above 3 khz, which will likely sound bright/presence heavy in reflective environments.
Based on experience with constant directivity waveguides in reflective rooms, I'm tempted to bet somebody's money that a flat on-axis response isn't the optimal target for speakers with directivity changes like the 8351.
I'm confident most people would enjoy them with a simple shelf filter above 3 khz if they don't like the standard tuning.
Pearljam5000
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What does presence heavy mean?
Sorry just never heard of it in audio context
tmtomh
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It means that the 2-3kHz midrange frequencies typically associated with how "forward" or "present" vocals sound (and I guess certain electric guitar and brass notes too) seem too loud, resulting in an "aggressive," "too much in your face" feeling without sufficient ambient cues, "warmth," or "air" to the sound.
As I noted above, it's something I've subjectively experienced to a degree with pretty much every speaker I've ever owned when I've toed the speakers in fully and turned up the volume a bit. In other words when I've set them up so their drivers are directly pointing at the middle of my head when I'm seated in the listening position. But at the same time, with all these speakers over the years, regardless of how much or how little I liked their sound overall, I found that every single one ceased to be "presence heavy" when I toed them out, usually just by a little bit.
It is interesting to play with, though - in a lot of situations you can subtly but clearly increase or decrease the perceived prominence of the phantom center and/or center-mixed presence frequencies by adjusting the speakers' toe-in by just a few degrees. In fact, in my experience you can get a similar variation without touching the speakers - just try moving your listening chair forward or backward by 6-12 inches. Heck, you might even be able to detect the difference by keeping the speakers and your chair where they are and just temporarily leaning back or forward in your chair more than you usually do.
The fundamental parameters of the sound are all about the speakers and the room - but we humans have evolved to be very sensitive to locational cues of midrange and treble frequencies, and it's kind of shocking (and unsettling I suppose, for hi-fi evaluation purposes) how much subtle variation you can hear just by slightly changing the location of your head relative to the speakers.
Pearljam5000
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Does anyone know why the drivers look different and which one's the latest design ?
The middle one looks like the glue is just applied on the paper and it’s not yet formed into shape..
It’s simple answer, buy a pair and ship to me, then I will take some photos and tell you the answer
Pearljam5000
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Am I the only one that's still concerned about those "wrinkles " in the driver?
G|force
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The top pic looks like a '41 driver and the bottom pic looks like a '51 driver, judging by the surrounds. I don't recognize the middle one.
With all due respect, my friend. When you ask the same question over and over and many people, including the manufacturer, give you an answer, you have two choices:
- Believe them and move on.
- Don't believe them and don't buy the product.
Hey i am using now both And found both usefull. But if i would choose one i keep atc due to their mentioned here mellow and real close to the true sound. Every kind of Genelec sound much different than every model of ATC - heard only 3 way ones. Gens are on the side of deconstruction of music much more than ATC. Of course it doesnt mean ATC are not deconsteucting they do but the other way more consistent - on Gens i never know how the music will sound. Anyway i keep both but for music lisyening i would always choose ATC. The smaller gens 8030 are more similar to ATC than ones. They are really really enjoyable speakers for what U pay especially when U position them correctly. They lack microdetails thats only one con i found about them and they are also somehow dry but the presentation is on the ATC/music side. There is no one answer this is good this is bad.
whats interesting - the ATC in proper room they have much more punch than for example in mine - even mine isnt bad. Of course they are much more calm in this matter than Gens.nice discussion ...
Can totally relay to what @galileon writes. In general its not about if something is there or not. Is more about how is presented and where is the emphasis.
Genelecs are lively and full of energy but certain type of music is better suited with something more mellow. As i had ATCs i missed this sparkle an punch.
So, there is no solution or right or wrong here
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