Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

[Absolute]

The issues i mentioned U can notice it immedatelly when doing A/B comparision. Every speaker have the cons and pros and also specific kind of representation. Thats why i have always many speakers the same time in the same room and same setup to compare - this is what i really love.

How do they sound if you take them to a different/larger room? The way you describe speakers in terms of fast, slow, metallic etc usually speaks to room interaction in my experience. Pictures of room, REW measurements and differences in set-up would go a long way in translating what you hear to a language the rest of us can understand.

 

[Spocko]

Hello,
True they do not colour the tone but they colour the transient / time domain. They are very quick in delivering the midrange and topend - thats why i really like play synths on them and this is what makes the sound is jumping to the front as hell. But the sad true is also, that they can bring to the table something that doesnt exists in the recording for example 'dont start now - dua lipa' there is part with hihats ( we tested on many systems ) and they bringed to the table sounds that doesnt exists anywhere and after many tests we found the same -> this quickness do this issue imo. Anyway in my quite dead room the soundstage is exceptional i mean how parts of the sound are splitted and hangining in the air is the spectacular. When i play synths i have feeling like to stay in front of some machine ( tested many speakers and no any giving the same perception ). But for music i keep now ATC 25v2 and the gens dont have the start to them in matter of naturality - but of course atc need the perfect room and placement otherwise they will do bad.
Whats interesting the genelecs 8030C they have similar sound to one's in matter of this metalic kind construction but they dont have this timedomain issue i mentioned.

Cheers
Rafal

You mention "time domain issue" as the possible reason for the elevated "hihats" but maybe you're conflating 2 different issues? The 8030c are designed to be nearfield speakers so that its direct sound is everything you want to hear with no consideration for reflected sound and additionally, with its smaller woofers it has a higher crossover point at 3000 (whereas 8351B crossover is lower at 2800); taken together, these 2 factors give the 8030c the advantage in better transient accuracy in the treble where you'll most notice differences. For example from 1m away in your dead room, you will hear all of the speaker's nuances with little from room reflections which means you will be more attuned to the slightly better transient response of the smaller 8030c. My understanding of the hihat frequency characteristics is that the body is between 300hz and 500hz but the "abrasiveness" is in the 4K range and the "sparkle" between 6K and 8K. Amir's 8351B spectral decay measurements show noticeable but narrow resonances at around 2.5K (likely at the crossover point?) - maybe this is what you're hearing? Go into GLM and see what EQ adjustments you can make to have the 8351B sound like the 8030c and then you'll know exactly what frequency is giving you trouble.

Also, a speaker's spectral decay and time domain issues may change with volume, so at what SPL are you listening to these speakers from your listening position? Try comparing at 76dB.

 

[galileon]

You mention "time domain issue" as the possible reason for the elevated "hihats" but maybe you're conflating 2 different issues? The 8030c are designed to be nearfield speakers so that its direct sound is everything you want to hear with no consideration for reflected sound and additionally, with its smaller woofers it has a higher crossover point at 3000 (whereas 8351B crossover is lower at 2800); taken together, these 2 factors give the 8030c the advantage in better transient accuracy in the treble where you'll most notice differences. For example from 1m away in your dead room, you will hear all of the speaker's nuances with little from room reflections which means you will be more attuned to the slightly better transient response of the smaller 8030c. My understanding of the hihat frequency characteristics is that the body is between 300hz and 500hz but the "abrasiveness" is in the 4K range and the "sparkle" between 6K and 8K. Amir's 8351B spectral decay measurements show noticeable but narrow resonances at around 2.5K (likely at the crossover point?) - maybe this is what you're hearing? Go into GLM and see what EQ adjustments you can make to have the 8351B sound like the 8030c and then you'll know exactly what frequency is giving you trouble.

Also, a speaker's spectral decay and time domain issues may change with volume, so at what SPL are you listening to these speakers from your listening position? Try comparing at 76dB.

hello
Thank U but i am listening always at the similar distance - 1 do 1.5m as my room doesn't let me to increase this distance without affecting to much ( even absorbment walls are reflecting ). This issue i mention is not only a matter of ringing frequenecy this is about how those frequencies are pronounced in comparision to others. I have spent years on listening different systems, woofers, tweeters and this kind of resonating coloration is rare - it makes them sound artificial in that particular case but also for example when i listen to vocals or some acoustic instruments - it is still there sometimes stronger sometimes weaker. Ingeneral this is what i was disliking 8351b just after purchased them -> something was unnatural and this is it - exacly. But i will say again -> otherwise they are spectacular construction and the 3d stage i have from them when playing synths is worth every penny i paid for them.

Cheers.

 

[galileon]

You mention "time domain issue" as the possible reason for the elevated "hihats" but maybe you're conflating 2 different issues? The 8030c are designed to be nearfield speakers so that its direct sound is everything you want to hear with no consideration for reflected sound and additionally, with its smaller woofers it has a higher crossover point at 3000 (whereas 8351B crossover is lower at 2800); taken together, these 2 factors give the 8030c the advantage in better transient accuracy in the treble where you'll most notice differences. For example from 1m away in your dead room, you will hear all of the speaker's nuances with little from room reflections which means you will be more attuned to the slightly better transient response of the smaller 8030c. My understanding of the hihat frequency characteristics is that the body is between 300hz and 500hz but the "abrasiveness" is in the 4K range and the "sparkle" between 6K and 8K. Amir's 8351B spectral decay measurements show noticeable but narrow resonances at around 2.5K (likely at the crossover point?) - maybe this is what you're hearing? Go into GLM and see what EQ adjustments you can make to have the 8351B sound like the 8030c and then you'll know exactly what frequency is giving you trouble.

Also, a speaker's spectral decay and time domain issues may change with volume, so at what SPL are you listening to these speakers from your listening position? Try comparing at 76dB.

and U are right - meybe this is that resonance 3.5k -> i will check exacly the F of and will let U know.

 

[Spocko]

hello
Thank U but i am listening always at the similar distance - 1 do 1.5m as my room doesn't let me to increase this distance without affecting to much ( even absorbment walls are reflecting ). This issue i mention is not only a matter of ringing frequenecy this is about how those frequencies are pronounced in comparision to others. I have spent years on listening different systems, woofers, tweeters and this kind of resonating coloration is rare - it makes them sound artificial in that particular case but also for example when i listen to vocals or some acoustic instruments - it is still there sometimes stronger sometimes weaker. Ingeneral this is what i was disliking 8351b just after purchased them -> something was unnatural and this is it - exacly. But i will say again -> otherwise they are spectacular construction and the 3d stage i have from them when playing synths is worth every penny i paid for them.

Cheers.

Interesting observations for sure! It's probably why enthusiasts have multiple speaker set ups - there's no perfect speaker for everything

 

[cl516]

In my opinion, with the Genelec Ones, they are not bringing anything extra to the table. What I’m hearing - it was always there in the audio file to begin with. They are extremely revealing. Of course, I can only speak for my ears, in my room, and both the 8351’s and 8361’s that I tried, both with GLM calibration.

 

[tmtomh]

Given their measured performance, anyone claiming the Genelec Ones "color" the sound has the burden on them to provide some evidence.

 

[bodhi]

Given their measured performance, anyone claiming the Genelec Ones "color" the sound has the burden on them to provide some evidence.

Unfortunately they don't think so.

 

[Pearljam5000]

If you're not into extreme detail , clarity , instrument separation , fast and dry bass and flat sound as possible .
Genelecs are not for you

 

[EchoChamber]

If you're not into extreme detail , clarity , instrument separation , fast and dry bass and flat sound as possible .
Genelecs are not for you

And sonic rewards are high when you find a recording that’s really well made. Especially true with acoustic instruments and vocals.

 

[KaLam1ty]

If you're not into extreme detail , clarity , instrument separation , fast and dry bass and flat sound as possible .
Genelecs are not for you

It's not just that.

It's the capability and ability of having some actual neutral baseline to work with.. in a multitude of environments, arrangement possibilities, and whatever variables.
If someone wants to color their sound in some way, they can achieve that certain sound because they know what they're working with.

 

[outfaced]

nice discussion ...
Can totally relay to what @galileon writes. In general its not about if something is there or not. Is more about how is presented and where is the emphasis.
Genelecs are lively and full of energy but certain type of music is better suited with something more mellow. As i had ATCs i missed this sparkle an punch.
So, there is no solution or right or wrong here

 

[tmtomh]

nice discussion ...
Can totally relay to what @galileon writes. In general its not about if something is there or not. Is more about how is presented and where is the emphasis.
Genelecs are lively and full of energy but certain type of music is better suited with something more mellow. As i had ATCs i missed this sparkle an punch.
So, there is no solution or right or wrong here

To each their own, but I listen to all sorts of music on my 8351s and I have no earthly idea what you and galileon are talking about. A speaker system that only works well with certain kinds of music is a flawed speaker system - or, I would guess in most cases the product of insufficient attention paid to room interactions and EQ. Or in some cases it's a speaker system that's been "tuned" by its designer to produce a certain kind of "feeling" with certain kinds of music, regardless of strict fidelity, and that can make its baked-in nonlinearities sound unpleasant with other kinds of music. That's now how Genelecs are designed or engineered.

Regarding mellowness in particular, I'm always impressed by how smooth and almost "sweet" the Genelecs sound, even when - especially when - reproducing music that is brassy, treble-heavy, or otherwise recorded or mastered in ways that would tend to bring out harshness.

 

[Pe8er]

Couldn't agree more with @tmtomh. I find 8351s incredibly versatile for any genre of music. The only specificity they have, if you can even call it that, is insanely detailed imagining, which makes them particularly suited for music with good separation and spatial placement of instruments. Of course spatially "flat" genres like death metal or punk sound amazing too because of tonality and dynamics etc., but I'm so spoiled now, I groan and shake my head wishing for a more tangible soundstage I know 8351s can render so well.

 

[tmtomh]

Couldn't agree more with @tmtomh. I find 8351s incredibly versatile for any genre of music. The only specificity they have, if you can even call it that, is insanely detailed imagining, which makes them particularly suited for music with good separation and spatial placement of instruments. Of course spatially "flat" genres like death metal or punk sound amazing too because of tonality and dynamics etc., but I'm so spoiled now, I groan and shake my head wishing for a more tangible soundstage I know 8351s can render so well.

And I, in turn, couldn't agree more with you! Specifically RE imaging. I felt my prior setup did a great job with imaging, including decent soundstage width and a nice, tight phantom center. But the Genelecs are on another level - the phantom center is defined and "locked in" beyond anything I ever heard before. And there are soundstage depth cues that I never heard before either. As for the width, that's also increased - but to your point, the fascinating thing about them is that it's not always increased - it depends on the musical source. Some recordings produce an illusion for me that extends beyond the L and R limits of the speakers, and some recordings don't.

Similarly, with the Genelecs I now hear all kinds of detail and texture in singing voices, but what I hear is not just "more" detailed than with my previous setup; it's also more varied: things that sounded essentially the same before now sometimes sound different than each other. It's that increased variation that has been the key sign to me of the increased fidelity that I'm getting with the Genelecs.

 

[Pearljam5000]

And I, in turn, couldn't agree more with you! Specifically RE imaging. I felt my prior setup did a great job with imaging, including decent soundstage width and a nice, tight phantom center. But the Genelecs are on another level - the phantom center is defined and "locked in" beyond anything I ever heard before. And there are soundstage depth cues that I never heard before either. As for the width, that's also increased - but to your point, the fascinating thing about them is that it's not always increased - it depends on the musical source. Some recordings produce an illusion for me that extends beyond the L and R limits of the speakers, and some recordings don't.

Similarly, with the Genelecs I now hear all kinds of detail and texture in singing voices, but what I hear is not just "more" detailed than with my previous setup; it's also more varied: things that sounded essentially the same before now sometimes sound different than each other. It's that increased variation that has been the key sign to me of the increased fidelity that I'm getting with the Genelecs.

What was your previous setup ?

 

[dfuller]

Given their measured performance, anyone claiming the Genelec Ones "color" the sound has the burden on them to provide some evidence.

I have only heard the 8331 and 8361 - they have the usual Genelec thing where they can sound a little presence heavy (in spite of not showing that in a spin), and LF was surprisingly messy on both - like to levels I really didn't expect.

I can't speak to why this is, because again - the measurements absolutely don't show it.

 

[RobL]

.

Similarly, with the Genelecs I now hear all kinds of detail and texture in singing voices, but what I hear is not just "more" detailed than with my previous setup; it's also more varied: things that sounded essentially the same before now sometimes sound different than each other. It's that increased variation that has been the key sign to me of the increased fidelity that I'm getting with the Genelecs.

I absolutely agree with this. In very familiar recordings, I can hear modulation in singers voices and instruments that I was unaware was there heard through previous speakers.

 

[tmtomh]

What was your previous setup ?

There were two relevant prior setups. One was a pair of B&W 705s with a Purifi-based amp and a graphic EQ used to roughly dial in room EQ (and dial out the 705s' treble peak). The other was a pair of Infinity Kappa 9s with the same Purifi amp and with a MiniDSP SHD doing room correction through Dirac.

Both of these setups produced a strong, clear phantom center. I found the Kappas much fiddlier to deal with and so in some configurations I'd say their center was not quite as strong as the 705s, while in other configurations it was equally strong, and in other configurations it was a little stronger. But in general it was strong and clear.

The Kappas produced noticeably better soundstage depth than the 705s. And of course more and better bass: 2x 12" woofers per speaker doing only bass frequencies vs 1x 6.5" ported midwoofer going all the way up past 2kHz on the 705s. I was amazed at how much bass the 705s could put out given what they had to work with - although when listening to the Kappas and now with the Genelecs I realize how much of the 705's bass beefiness was just low-order harmonic distortion.

The Kappas also produced notably taller soundstage height than the 705s: They're 5 feet tall and the baffles lean back slightly, meaning that all the drivers that cover the directional frequencies are either mounted above seated listening height, or have an acoustic center that's above listening height by the time it reaches your chair (because the leaning baffle tilts the drivers up slightly).

As for soundstage width, for the most part I surprisingly found both speakers to be similar, with the perceived L-R image rarely seeming to extend beyond the outer edge of the speaker.

In my perception, the Genelecs produce a noticeably sharper, tighter phantom center; wider soundstage; deeper soundstage than the 705s and more consistent soundstage depth than the Kappas; far more, cleaner, and more linear bass than the 705s; different but equally good bass to the Kappas; and nearly as good soundstage height as the Kappas.

 

[RobL]

I have only heard the 8331 and 8361 - they have the usual Genelec thing where they can sound a little presence heavy (in spite of not showing that in a spin), and LF was surprisingly messy on both - like to levels I really didn't expect.

I can't speak to why this is, because again - the measurements absolutely don't show it.

Yes, you mentioned this before. Messy LF would be caused by room problems and listening without GLM. I have no such issue with mine, they play tight and extremely detailed bass.