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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

Purité Audio

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Both in the same room at the same time, switching instantly using Roon, re FR they might be flat measured anechoic-ally but place them in a room… but it isn’t the wiggly ess of the FR the Gens just have a more horizontal target which is perceived as sounding slightly thinner or some might mistake them for more resolving.

Keith
 

Hmast

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So how would you advise a buyer according to tastes? Which one is better?
 

Purité Audio

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The speaker which is more suitable for that particular buyer, they are both really good speakers but in my opinion you have to sit pretty close to the 8351s, for domestic use I would recommend the their bigger brother the 61, out of the box I prefer the 8Cs but you can of course adjust the target of both speakers to your taste.
Keith
 

holdingpants01

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I just want to say that I changed monitors in my studio recently and this review was one of reasons I went with Genelecs. I went from Neumann KH310 to 2 x 8351B with 2 x 7360 and I'm very happy with them. Basically flat from 20Hz to 20kHz. I still have a few 8330 in the boxes waiting for Atmos installation, but for stereo work those are great. I am also happy that I didn't go with 8361 as I wouldn't use any of their advantages and that I went with double subs rather than single bigger one, as I have them in the corners working in mono and the bass distribution is awesome
 

Descartes

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelec 8351B powered monitors (speakers). It was purchased used by a member and kindly drop shipped to me for testing. They cost US $3,995 each.

The 8351 is a thee-way speakers with the bass drivers hidden beyond the front baffle:

View attachment 129922

Naturally the back panel allows for fair bit of configuration changes:
View attachment 129923

I reset the speaker to factory settings and left all the dip switches off as you see. I used analog XLR input for all measurements and listening tests.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than an anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

I performed over 1000 measurement which resulted in error rate of around 1%.

Testing temperature was around 65 degrees F.

Reference axis for measurements was the center of the tweeter (by eye).

Measurements are compliant with latest speaker research into what can predict the speaker preference and is standardized in CEA/CTA-2034 ANSI specifications. Likewise listening tests are performed per research that shows mono listening is much more revealing of differences between speakers than stereo or multichannel.

Genelec 8351B Measurements
As usual we start with our spin frequency response measurements:
View attachment 129926

I expected flat on-axis response and we essentially get that. There is a tiny bit of deviation in lower frequencies. I checked with Genelec and they looked up the measurements and they are ± 0.5 dB in that region. They show it a bit flatter than I do but I don't think either one of us know whose measurements are more correct. :) Regardless, the deviation is tiny and your room would overwhelm it in practice.

Directivity plots show off-axis that is similar to on-axis as it should be with coaxial drivers. This is in turn reflected in early-window response and predicted one:

View attachment 129927

View attachment 129928

I don't have near-field driver responses for you since it was silly to try to measure them on a coaxial driver.

Directivity plots of almost textbook perfect:

View attachment 129929

View attachment 129930

View attachment 129931

Edit: forgot to post the distortion graphs before:
View attachment 129970

View attachment 129971


Finally waterfall shows a few resonances:
View attachment 129932

Genelec 8351B Listening Tests
Given the size of this speaker and interest in membership to use them in high-fi and home theater applications, I decided to listen to them using my main system in far field listening. From the first few seconds I knew the sound was right and in need of no adjustment other dialing out the one room mode I have around 105 Hz. Track after track has excellent sound with image coming out of a circular halo around the driver. This is what you get when the speaker is well designed and relies on decades of research on what good sound is. All of my reference tracks that were curated on another system like it translated and delighted just as well.

Dynamics and Competition with Revel Salon 2
There has been a lot of talk about how these two speakers compare in the forum. I find the conversion odd as we are comparing a bookshelf speaker to a full blown tower. Still, I decided to compare the two since I own the Salon 2.

The Salon 2 quickly showed its difference in taller image that was not so focused and centered as the Genelec. This of course could be an optical illusion of the Genelec pulling your eye toward its tweeter. Still, I stand by this observation. :) The other thing that stood out was that the highs were more prominent in Salon 2 bringing more realism to high frequency notes. The Genelec sounded subdued in this front. Perhaps there is some peaking in my Salon 2 (have not measured it yet).

Where one could not doubt a difference was the power capability and bass extension. On sub-bass heavy tracks the Genelec held its own at lower volume. As you turned up the level the bass driver started to make this annoying "furrrrring" sound on heavy bass notes. You could easily hear it if you stood on top of the speaker and listened through the slot on top. Turn up the volume a bit more and the red clipping indicator would come on.

The Salon 2 was in entirely different class. Powered with 1000 watts of amplification, it provided a level of belly shaking that the 8351B could not even dream about reproducing. And it would keep getting louder and louder with zero distortion and strain. It simply was not a fair fight even though the 8351B tries hard.

Overall, the Salon 2 provides that large, dynamic sound that a statement speaker needs to provide to fill a large space. The 8351 is for more intimate and more focused listening.

Conclusions
Both objectively and subjectively the Genelec 8351B delivers. Near perfection as far as tonality and dispersion is provided. Its power delivery is the best of any Genelec speaker I have tested so far and is almost beyond what you may need. In my case though, I am used to much larger and powerful systems and there, the 8351B was limiting especially with its bass slot noise. So I would not position it above its class.

Overall, it is my pleasure to put the Genelec 8351B on my recommended list.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150
How far were you sitting from them when you listened to them?
I am debating between the 8351B or the 8361A?
 

Descartes

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Kali is the only company I'd consider to be a good starting point that retains many of the advantages of the Genelecs but to a lesser extent. (DSP correction, coaxial driver, even response.)

I went from a HiVi DIY 3.1 at $300 to a pair of Genlec 8260 monitors at $5000 used.... I'd probably have stopped on that path when I heard the IN-8 if the original models didn't have notable hiss... Or maybe the Devialet Phantom which was excellent nearfield and just lacked good connectivity options.

Ultimately I'm glad I saved for three or four years to start on the Genelec path because now I love surround sound and from what I can see there are ZERO competitors in that space.

Kii, Dutch & Dutch, Revel, JBL, Focal, etc. don't seem to have the mounting options, flexible placement with coaxial drivers, or versatile center channels like The Ones in various sizes that are so incredibly flexible with their mounting options and horizontal or vertical placement.

I'd like to hear a surround sound system based on Devialet Phantoms though. See how it compares. Too bad it's hard to talk to them about their "custom" versions that have better inputs for commercial installs and surround sound.
I never heard a surround sound system with Genelec the Ones but I heard a 7.6 Devialet system and was very impressed!

I also had the opportunity to hear this demo at the Palais Garnier Opera de Paris and I was blown away!


This demo was out of this world now the cost for 16 of these speakers alone would be out of reach except for the top 1% of the population!

Only $62,400 for 16 Gold Opera Phantoms
Plus the processor for such a system, fortunately one could use Dante protocol audio over CAT5

 
Last edited:

Hmast

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I never heard a surround sound system with Genelec the Ones but I heard a 7.6 Devialet system and was very impressed!

I also had the opportunity to hear this demo at the Palais Garnier Opera de Paris and I was blown away!


This demo was out of this world now the cost for 16 of these speakers alone would be out of reach except for the top 1% of the population!

Only $62,400 for 16 Gold Opera Phantoms
Plus the processor for such a system, fortunately one could use Dante protocol audio over CAT5

Technically a Genelec The One is superior to a Phantom Devialet. I have no doubt ANY 7.6 system will impress anyone whatever the quality of the speaker... as this is such an uncommon experience.
 

Hmast

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Dumb question: I need to remove the stands and the screws have a star shape. Have I missed a "star-allen key" with the speakers or should I buy one? The package is quite hard to reach to check myslef so I prefer asking here, sorry :facepalm:
 

Trell

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Dumb question: I need to remove the stands and the screws have a star shape. Have I missed a "star-allen key" with the speakers or should I buy one? The package is quite hard to reach to check myslef so I prefer asking here, sorry :facepalm:
There where none with my 8330A, as I recall.
 

JustJones

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Dumb question: I need to remove the stands and the screws have a star shape. Have I missed a "star-allen key" with the speakers or should I buy one? The package is quite hard to reach to check myslef so I prefer asking here, sorry :facepalm:
It's either a T20 or T25 TORX. The isopods use the T20 if that's what you're trying to remove.

"To do this, you will need a T20 Torx screwdriver. Older models may have Iso-Pods that require a Phillip's head screwdriver.

Please do not attempt to remove the screws with the incorrect screwdriver, as this can result in stripped screw heads."
 

NTK

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It's either a T20 or T25 TORX. The isopods use the T20 if that's what you're trying to remove.

"To do this, you will need a T20 Torx screwdriver. Older models may have Iso-Pods that require a Phillip's head screwdriver.

Please do not attempt to remove the screws with the incorrect screwdriver, as this can result in stripped screw heads."
Yep. See this thread.
 

Descartes

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelec 8351B powered monitors (speakers). It was purchased used by a member and kindly drop shipped to me for testing. They cost US $3,995 each.

The 8351 is a thee-way speakers with the bass drivers hidden beyond the front baffle:

View attachment 129922

Naturally the back panel allows for fair bit of configuration changes:
View attachment 129923

I reset the speaker to factory settings and left all the dip switches off as you see. I used analog XLR input for all measurements and listening tests.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than an anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

I performed over 1000 measurement which resulted in error rate of around 1%.

Testing temperature was around 65 degrees F.

Reference axis for measurements was the center of the tweeter (by eye).

Measurements are compliant with latest speaker research into what can predict the speaker preference and is standardized in CEA/CTA-2034 ANSI specifications. Likewise listening tests are performed per research that shows mono listening is much more revealing of differences between speakers than stereo or multichannel.

Genelec 8351B Measurements
As usual we start with our spin frequency response measurements:
View attachment 129926

I expected flat on-axis response and we essentially get that. There is a tiny bit of deviation in lower frequencies. I checked with Genelec and they looked up the measurements and they are ± 0.5 dB in that region. They show it a bit flatter than I do but I don't think either one of us know whose measurements are more correct. :) Regardless, the deviation is tiny and your room would overwhelm it in practice.

Directivity plots show off-axis that is similar to on-axis as it should be with coaxial drivers. This is in turn reflected in early-window response and predicted one:

View attachment 129927

View attachment 129928

I don't have near-field driver responses for you since it was silly to try to measure them on a coaxial driver.

Directivity plots of almost textbook perfect:

View attachment 129929

View attachment 129930

View attachment 129931

Edit: forgot to post the distortion graphs before:
View attachment 129970

View attachment 129971


Finally waterfall shows a few resonances:
View attachment 129932

Genelec 8351B Listening Tests
Given the size of this speaker and interest in membership to use them in high-fi and home theater applications, I decided to listen to them using my main system in far field listening. From the first few seconds I knew the sound was right and in need of no adjustment other dialing out the one room mode I have around 105 Hz. Track after track has excellent sound with image coming out of a circular halo around the driver. This is what you get when the speaker is well designed and relies on decades of research on what good sound is. All of my reference tracks that were curated on another system like it translated and delighted just as well.

Dynamics and Competition with Revel Salon 2
There has been a lot of talk about how these two speakers compare in the forum. I find the conversion odd as we are comparing a bookshelf speaker to a full blown tower. Still, I decided to compare the two since I own the Salon 2.

The Salon 2 quickly showed its difference in taller image that was not so focused and centered as the Genelec. This of course could be an optical illusion of the Genelec pulling your eye toward its tweeter. Still, I stand by this observation. :) The other thing that stood out was that the highs were more prominent in Salon 2 bringing more realism to high frequency notes. The Genelec sounded subdued in this front. Perhaps there is some peaking in my Salon 2 (have not measured it yet).

Where one could not doubt a difference was the power capability and bass extension. On sub-bass heavy tracks the Genelec held its own at lower volume. As you turned up the level the bass driver started to make this annoying "furrrrring" sound on heavy bass notes. You could easily hear it if you stood on top of the speaker and listened through the slot on top. Turn up the volume a bit more and the red clipping indicator would come on.

The Salon 2 was in entirely different class. Powered with 1000 watts of amplification, it provided a level of belly shaking that the 8351B could not even dream about reproducing. And it would keep getting louder and louder with zero distortion and strain. It simply was not a fair fight even though the 8351B tries hard.

Overall, the Salon 2 provides that large, dynamic sound that a statement speaker needs to provide to fill a large space. The 8351 is for more intimate and more focused listening.

Conclusions
Both objectively and subjectively the Genelec 8351B delivers. Near perfection as far as tonality and dispersion is provided. Its power delivery is the best of any Genelec speaker I have tested so far and is almost beyond what you may need. In my case though, I am used to much larger and powerful systems and there, the 8351B was limiting especially with its bass slot noise. So I would not position it above its class.

Overall, it is my pleasure to put the Genelec 8351B on my recommended list.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150
Thinking of using three of these for L-C-R!

Probably sitting 10 feet away from them!
 

Spocko

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Thinking of using three of these for L-C-R!

Probably sitting 10 feet away from them!
More than good enough, that's how I have them set up, but if you plan to place them on the floor then you may have a localization issue so this is how I solved it:
  1. I had all 3 set up as LCR from 8 feet away on the floor, but this resulted in localization of the center channel - I could hear it originating from below the screen - it was distracting and annoying.
  2. To avoid localization, I converted my Center Height speaker (8331) to serve as an "uplift" channel to raise the audio perception to the center of the screen - but this is only possible if your processor (I have the Trinnov Alt16) allows for this matrixing function.
  3. Trinnov rep told me that had I had the L/R speakers higher up then the Alt16 would've matrixed the Center higher but since all 3 were on the ground, this effect wasn't possible and I had to dedicate the CH channel for this purpose (it wasn't a big loss because the remaining Left/Right Height channels could still create a phantom CH effect)
 

Descartes

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More than good enough, that's how I have them set up, but if you plan to place them on the floor then you may have a localization issue so this is how I solved it:
  1. I had all 3 set up as LCR from 8 feet away on the floor, but this resulted in localization of the center channel - I could hear it originating from below the screen - it was distracting and annoying.
  2. To avoid localization, I converted my Center Height speaker (8331) to serve as an "uplift" channel to raise the audio perception to the center of the screen - but this is only possible if your processor (I have the Trinnov Alt16) allows for this matrixing function.
  3. Trinnov rep told me that had I had the L/R speakers higher up then the Alt16 would've matrixed the Center higher but since all 3 were on the ground, this effect wasn't possible and I had to dedicate the CH channel for this purpose (it wasn't a big loss because the remaining Left/Right Height channels could still create a phantom CH effect)
They will be setup 24 inches from the floor on stands! Below the screen
 

Mtbf

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I can confirm that the auto standby in my 8351b and 7370a is very unintelligent when using a coax connection from a bluesound node. Otherwise incredible speakers.
This isn’t “unintelligent” in any way, but logical. Since the Genelecs continue to get the clock signal from the Bluesound via coax, they can’t go into standby. If you switch off your Bluesound they do, and (of course) if you would use analogue in they do.
 

lappy

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This isn’t “unintelligent” in any way, but logical. Since the Genelecs continue to get the clock signal from the Bluesound via coax, they can’t go into standby. If you switch off your Bluesound they do, and (of course) if you would use analogue in they do.
I disagree. Even genelecs own description of the feature is how I wished it worked: "If the ISS circuit does not find any audio on the input for a period of time, it sets the loudspeaker to a low-power sleep state and the loudspeaker will consume less than 0.5 watts."
 

Trell

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I disagree. Even genelecs own description of the feature is how I wished it worked: "If the ISS circuit does not find any audio on the input for a period of time, it sets the loudspeaker to a low-power sleep state and the loudspeaker will consume less than 0.5 watts."

@Mtbf is right with his reply.


>>>Below is a list of conditions which prevents the monitor or subwoofer to turn ISS sleep state.
  1. Signal sensed from the analogue input.
  2. Digital bit clock sensed from the digital input.
  3. Commands received from GLM network.
  4. ISS is disabled.
It’s quite common that the digital audio source keeps the digital bit clock active when the source is powered ON. That prevents the monitor or subwoofer to turn ISS sleep state. There could be also some noise in the analog input that prevents ISS sleep state. To find the reason which input has a signal preventing to turn ISS sleep state, remove each cable one by one and see if ISS sleep state activates. ...<<<
 
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