I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use GLM's sound character profiler and shelf filters as normal, but yeah I guess if that's not enough for you, you might want to use something else.
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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)
- Thread starter amirm
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I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use GLM's sound character profiler and shelf filters as normal, but yeah I guess if that's not enough for you, you might want to use something else.
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Senior NEET Engineer
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Some problems I have with it:
- Messes too much with direct sound by default, unless you are nearfield in heavily damped room
- Can't set custom target curve, only limited control
- Can't set room correction range limiter
- Multipoint measurements only support 4 points
- No multi subwoofer optimizer
- SAM products carry high premium
- Genelec 7380A $4000 Rythmik FV15HP $1500
- Genelec 8330A $1800 Genelec 8030C $1400
- SAM software can break speaker functionality (my 8341A power button stopped working until I used GLM to update firmware)
- There is no legally binding contract that Genelec will continue to support GLM for all SAM products and latest Windows/Mac operating systems
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Sebastiaan de Vries
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In fairness, the Genelec's and GLM/SAM systems are designed for flat and accurate response. This is what Genelec has always stood for, and why there is some "disconnect" to some (not all) home-audio enthusiasts.
Defining a target curve is probable against Genelec's Philosophy of a flat response. However, there are some shelving filters you can use to tailor the sound to taste. Personally, I am all for flat response, and I don't believe in the Harman curve for music reproduction (for me). However, I have the highest respect for all Harmans' research into this topic, and I do believe that the research outcome is valid, that most domestic listeners prefer a Harman curve. I belong to the minority who aim for a ruler flat curve, and to my ears, this sounds most accurate.
I agree with your point with regards to multi-subwoofer alignment. Unfortunately, most systems with room calibration don't encounter any functionality for proper multi-sub alignment. With "proper," I imply, be able to send a mono (bass managed) signal to all subs, have the subs individually aligned in time, but the frequency and phase response corrected as a sum. Unfortunately, not many companies are on board with this multi-sub approach. Most prefer stereo-bass when more subwoofers are involved, which in my opinion, don't let you enjoy the full benefits of multi-subwoofers to holistically battle modal room modes. W371A's is a different story, but I don't regard them as subwoofers but as system extension.
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Would you consider an upward tilted on axis frequency response to be neutral?
There is no disconnect, IMO. GLM does not force speakers to flat unless you tell it to(by setting a shelf filter), which would deviate from the default. The default leaves the treble entirely alone in most situations. That treble should slope downwards naturally at farther listening distances in a typical domestic environment, but in the nearfield it does so less or even not at all depending on how close you are.
My 8351Bs always slope downwards by 3-4dB(100-10khz) at 2.3m, GLM does nothing to alter this. I prefer a bit more bass than that, but it's completely accepted in the research that tone controls are important and people prefer differing amounts of bass. That's why the sound character profiler has slopes of -0.5dB/oct and -1dB/oct if you like, among other options.
A big reason this is necessary however is that people do not listen at loud enough levels at home. If you aren't listening at 83dBC average then you are going to need more bass for almost all recordings than the natural curve. That's quite loud to most people, it would involve peaks of ~113dB in some recordings for me.
The "harman curve" is nothing more than the natural result of a reasonably well designed loudspeaker in a normal domestic room. You are definitely NOT supposed to force your response to resemble it with EQ.
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The good thing is that being a closed ecosystem the GLM knows that the loudspeakers used are anechoically flat on-axis so it mainly only corrects at the modal region as needed.
AFAIK the GLM EQ strategy has also changed over the last years being corrected from the first initial approach which was according to the wrong EBU/ITU standards,@Floyd Toole has also written about it here in the past:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nelec-on-audio-science.3110/page-7#post-79872
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nelec-on-audio-science.3110/page-7#post-79872
AFAIK the GLM EQ strategy has also changed over the last years being corrected from the first initial approach which was according to the wrong EBU/ITU standards,@Floyd Toole has also written about it here in the past:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nelec-on-audio-science.3110/page-7#post-79872
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nelec-on-audio-science.3110/page-7#post-79872
MBI
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Is that specific to the Ones Genelec or is this a room problem?
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The 100-200hz region is challenging for rooms, especially with SBIR, but compact speakers like the Ones with bass drivers near ear level aren't much help. Ideally the bass drivers are in multiple positions extending close to the floor. This is one of the ideas behind W371A. A poor man's version would be tower speakers.
MBI
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Very many thanks for taking the time to explain so well.
Pearljam5000
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Yeah, Warren has finally gave up his beloved NS10s and Gene 10xs. And learning to use a subwoofer and room correction! It's funny where he says "I need to remix this now" while listening to his own mix on it.
I think Warren came around on room correction when he was talking to a Genelec GLM engineer at the Ones kickoff. She told him that every room needs correction, and he said "Nah, I know my room", and she just told him bluntly that he was wrong. Twice.
I think Warren came around on room correction when he was talking to a Genelec GLM engineer at the Ones kickoff. She told him that every room needs correction, and he said "Nah, I know my room", and she just told him bluntly that he was wrong. Twice.
Pearljam5000
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He also has the Focal Trio so it would make an interesting comparison
i listened to the focal trio in an A B against the 8351 with a GLM curve and felt the trio had further bass extension but was not more accurate on my reference recordings compared to an EQ'd hd650 or hd800s. I'm going to go for the 1s, and it's not an if but a when.
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The twin was always going to measure straight up goofy. All of those speakers do. Turns out horizontally aligning drivers is dumb and should not be done if avoidable.Hopefully the Trio measures considerably better than the duo.
The Trios are considerably better - Sound and Recording tested the Trio11 and while it's not quite at the level of accuracy as the Ones it is overall a decent design. It gets approximately loud as balls, too - 3% THD is up around 110dB SPL.
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Genelec should offer a beryllium-tweeter set of Ones. Job the tweeter out to Focal. It would be like that old Benz built by Porsche:
Pearljam5000
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I also like Focal's Beryllium tweeter, but I've been told the driver materiel is irrelevant to the sound.
I have owned a 500E since October 1991. I don't use it often any more but I still love it. They aren't very common in the UK since they only made left-hand drive, I think M-B UK imported around 10, mine came straight from the factory on the Formula 1 discount programme and has the unusual provanance of having been driven by Michael Schumacher who wanted to compare it with his special AMG one.
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I could add that the European and US versions may well differ, I don't have the built in phone and mine is normal aircon not climate control.
In terms of differences I was told by the Merc guy who attended races, that it was the most expensive car Merc had ever sold and they would probably never do another project like it.
Because of the width of the engine whilst the track front and rear is around 2" a side wider (the flare on the rear wheel arch isn't as big as the front) the floorpan is unique to the car and the seats and carpets and most of the interior too because of it.
Mine was my every day car for many years and has done 125,000 miles but is in much better condition inside than the one in the video but could do with external cosmetic attention. Mine is also on 500SL wheels. I was given a set of AMG wheels by OZ who make them so swapped the 500E and 500SL wheels while I had both but went back to standard wheel sizes because the AMG wheel/tyre is smaller rolling radius and the final drive was short enough to give poor fduel consumption already! The 4-speed automatic was the only one they had that ciould take the torque back then and the top speed was limited by the rev limiter in top gear.
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Sebastiaan de Vries
Active Member
I believe the material or transducer type for tweeters is less relevant by acoustic well designed (placement, baffle-step and waveguide) and DSP controlled (manipulated) designs.
I used to believe the pure ribbon tweeters from my Magnepan MG20.7' were the holy grail in high-frequency refinement and resolution. However, the tweeters in the 8351B's provides more resolution, more refinement, and focussed details than I've ever got from the Magnepans.
I don't imply the Magnepans are wrong and/or that ribbons don't have their merits. I just state that I no longer believe in a specific material, a specific amp, or a specific DAC. It is the holistic design and aimed (and achieved) end results that matter. From that perspective, all those building blocks are just tools for the designer, like paint is for a painter. It is what the creator makes from it.
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