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Genelec 8351b/8361a vs Magnepan

ethanhallbeyer

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The Genelecs have room correction and 3 separate amps. Anyone who has heard them vs Magnepan 1.7i know what their relative strengths and weaknesses are? different experiences?
 

ahofer

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I think the consensus here is that the Genelec speakers are dramatically more accurate, and likely to be more pleasing in direct comparison (per the Toole research on what listeners like). The first belief is just factual, the second still research-based.

I've owned both brands, and the imaging from Genelec seems far better, IMO. Different models, different setups, though. The weird instability of the image was a frustration for me when I was listening in a focused way to Magnepans.

Subjectively, Magnepans are pretty cool, and their appearance differentiates you as an audiophile. A lot of listeners think the immersion and height of the Magnepan sound are magical, as I did initially. YMMV.
 
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stevenswall

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I've listened to large and small Magnepans in Oregon in a semi treated room, another set of panel speakers at the Magnolia Design Denver CO, and The Ones at NAB and own an 8260... The Magnepans are much more picky soundstage wise, distort too much for me with bass or bass dynamics, and though I didn't test it their vertical dispersion is likely as bad as just about anything else that isn't a coaxial driver.

If you like the aesthetic, and only listen to classical stuff with no drums, organs, or anything that plays much lower than a flute, the sweet spot listening alone with Maggie's will do just fine. Most vocals too, especially if it's someone's first set of dedicated speakers and they are coming from a sound bar and boomy woofer: maggies definitely aren't muddy.

Turning them up though they start sounding broken with tons of distortion with modern music with bass unless you have a sub... At the Magnolia location I was afraid I'd get scolded by the salesperson and immediately had to turn them down. He apologized and conceded that they really wouldn't do bass or the kind of music I was putting on.

The Genelecs will not have these issues handling bass nearly so quickly, even down to an 8340. A 1031 I might put in the same realm as the Maggie's bass wise.

Heck, my Kali IN-5 with 5" woofers doesn't sound as broken bass wise as the Magnepans I've heard... It doesn't reach super deep but it plays what it can with much less audible distortion.

Maggie's may sound clearer to you though as you'll be avoiding nearly issues with boomy bass buildup, but the half tube shaped absorbtion or panels I see behind Magnepan speakers where I've heard them might be more required than with a monopole speaker.

If not having to deal with major bass peaks and nulls was what I wanted, I'd go with with a Genelec with GLM and see if I liked it, and if the bass was still bad I'd EQ it to roll off starting around 100hz and enjoy the larger sweet spot compared to the Maggie's.

Grain of salt: Almost all of this is from memory, and I haven't heard Genelecs besides the 1031 and 8260 in my own home.
 

Sancus

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I own both, and Magnepan 1.7is are just not on the same level as the Genelec Ones. Which, I mean, you would expect from the drastically lower price. The overall accuracy on and off-axis is not even in the same ballpark. That said, the 1.7i certainly don't sound completely terrible or anything.

It doesn't matter whether you have a sub or not, Magnepans have serious midbass limitations, listening at reasonably loud levels(80dB@2m, say), they will compress on peaks early and often. Drums just don't sound right. It's not too bad at 65 or 70dB.

Magnepans also have a pretty serious problem with comb filtering unless you can place them very far into the room, and by very far I mean at least 4 or 5 feet. 3 feet isn't nearly enough. Using a sub crossed over at 100hz helps with this, as does room correction. Honestly though, I'm not convinced you can actually fully eliminate this problem, at least not without heavily damping the back wave with some pretty serious treatments. Here are some measurements I took at ~2m listening distance comparing them with a top tier studio monitor. The 1.7i were a full 36" from the back wall. It's worse the closer you put them.

mZ5UMTS.png


So what are the upsides of Magnepans? Well, the vertical dispersion is extremely narrow. You can see how narrow in the LRS review. The extremely low level floor and ceiling bounce may be what contributes to the way they make music "sound tall". They sound sort of like they're in a room with a much higher ceiling or something like that. This effect can be nice on orchestral and acoustic music, but you can't turn it off, and it's really not appropriate for all genres IMO.

For some people, this effect is worth all the downsides. For me, while it was fun to own them for a few years, now that I've discovered multi-channel upmixing, personally I think it's better in every way, it's configurable, can be turned off when not desired, and produces a better effect in most cases.

Oh, yeah, and Magnepans are sort of fragile and prone to delaminating due to various poorly understood reasons.
 

MBI

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In the past month, I subjectively listened to 1.7MG and 8361A in different settings. The comparison may seem a difficult task as one is planar and the other is coax, especially in different settings. But no, it's a very easy comparison: go for the 8361A if you can.

Subjectively the 1.7 MG sounds extremly weak and somewhat strange (distorted and possibly with interference) if pushed against a wall, especially in mono. In stereo and in a further away from the wall setup, 1.7 MG can sound nice on some tracks when sitting in the right spot, even more so with some room correction and a "matching" amp (some give really bad results with 1.7 MG, as I have experienced with swapping amps, especially in the highs). Some MG owners seem to manage to produce interesting in room response, probably at the expense of spending an awful amount of time (and sometimes money too) in doing so and are never fully satisfied as they always are looking forward to upgrading to the next bigger MG, whichever model they have. Many add subs, which can sometimes be very complex.

But the 8361A just sounds big, alone, in mono and even with no correction. It's easier to steup and so much more powerful, not to say it can fit on a bookshelf (a big book shelf, admittedly). Magnepans don't stand a chance in blind testing comparison, IMO. Just not the same league. The precision of the reproduction of 8361A doesn't let bad mixes or recordings get away with it, which may require being more picky with version quality. But I find it interesting to hear what has gone wrong in the track exactly, and being able to discern which recording sucks and which doesn't. 8361A sounds a little bright to me, but highs can easily be dampened in GLM (in just a click). The sweet spot can be wider with 8361A too, thanks to the coax design it seems. I moved about in the test room to check.

As far as measures are concerned, Magnepans always have scored (very) badly, whereas 8361A is top level (state of the art?).

As far as price is concerned, 8361A may look more expensive than 1.7 MG at first, but they already have amps built in (and even a DAC as a matter of fact). So when all things are added up, if you buy it all from scratch with decent preamp, amp and DAC, the price difference should shrink.
 

MBI

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Those are open baffle, not really monopolar, or am I wrong?
Anyway, that's not planar, unlike MGs which are dipoles
 
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OdysseusG

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Thanks, but I should have said "how tiny", really.

https://witchdoctor.co.nz/index.php...-completely-different-way-of-capturing-music/

Soundkeeper Recordings monitors with Magnepan 3.7s. A vanishingly small slice, but it's something. I'm pretty sure it was the same guy that I considered buying 3.6s from when he was either upgrading or moving. I was intrigued that anyone would use maggies in the studio, which seems fraught with peril. Looking at that article now and oh boy, there's a whole lot of audiophile nonsense in there.
Seems hard to imagine cross shopping the Ones with maggies, totally different markets. I'd imagine the practical considerations would tip things one way or the other by themselves ie being more nearfield and placement friendly like the Genelecs. On the maggies my opinion would be you have to hear them for yourself as they can be a bit polarizing.
 

ctakim

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This strikes me as a total apples vs. oranges comparison in that these are two vastly different speakers with hugely different characteristics. I have Magnepan 1.6s in my main room and I'm contemplating Genelec 8351b's for my near field desktop use as my next purchase. Although I might go with a cheaper 8331 option.
 

Wes

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Agree. The OP will need to listen to them both to see which he prefers - or to see which set of deficits matters the least to him (and the latter is what speakers are all about).

mea culpa, I have 3.7i in the den and still keep a small pair of cone speakers in the bedroom and computer room...
 

stevenswall

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This strikes me as a total apples vs. oranges comparison in that these are two vastly different speakers with hugely different characteristics. I have Magnepan 1.6s in my main room and I'm contemplating Genelec 8351b's for my near field desktop use as my next purchase. Although I might go with a cheaper 8331 option.

Which characteristics are correct for which situations?

I don't think there is a situation where the characteristics of a panel speaker are needed over a genelec system or similar dynamic multi-way sealed or reflex system unless fidelity isn't the goal.
 

Wes

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whatever you prefer is correct for your situation

fidelity is an "n-dimensional hyper-space" - you need to avoid trying to collapse it into univariate procrustean bed
 

ctakim

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Which characteristics are correct for which situations?

I don't think there is a situation where the characteristics of a panel speaker are needed over a genelec system or similar dynamic multi-way sealed or reflex system unless fidelity isn't the goal.
To each their own!
 

stevenswall

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stevenswall

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Politeness is not your strong suite!

Thankfully my agreeableness makes up for it! ;)

On a less flippant note, I wanted to make it clear that a name is simply that, and nearfield studio monitors neither have to be used nearfield for great results, nor do they have to be in a studio, and finally, you don't have to use them for monitoring.

Hopefully that clarifies my point: Genelec monitors, especially the 8361, work in all the situations I've seen panel speakers in. There is no context in which I would pick a Maggie, whether nearfield, farfield, in a home, outside, in a studio, etc. if accuracy (fidelity, high fidelity, uncolored sound) is the goal.

If someone has a specific situation where they think Magnepan speakers would sound inherently better considering the above, I'd be interested in hearing that explained and the metrics someone is using: dynamics, SPL, accuracy, extension, distortion, etc.

I could see a situation where a ceiling was purposefully designed by highly skilled engineers to make reflections sound so horrible as to ruin all music coming from speakers with vertical dispersion like The Ones, but I've never encountered a room purpose built or non-purpose built in which a Magnepan wouldn't be a compromise in several areas.
 

stevenswall

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whatever you prefer is correct for your situation

If my goal is to win a drag race, a Geo metro is incorrect for my situation, even if it's my 'preference.'

If my goal is to make a photorealistic virtual environment, a calibrated OLED or mastering monitor with a high level of accuracy is the correct choice for my situation, even if I say "I prefer this Vizio."

If my goal is to listen to my music colored by Magnepan speakers, then my preference towards Magnepan speakers would certainly correct. Otherwise, if fidelity is the goal, it would be as nonsensical as the above examples.
 
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