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Genelec 8351b/8361a vs Magnepan

richard12511

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Yes, if fidelity isn't the goal.

I'm not ashamed to admit that fidelity isn't my goal. I'm just here to enjoy music, so subjective preference is my goal. I happen to prefer the sound of high fidelity, but if I didn't, then it would definitely not be my goal.

Revel and Genelec target the same target, but for different reasons. Genelec targets a flat response because that is what is most true to the source, and their objective is to show you the truth. Revel targets a flat response because that is the most preferred response under blind conditions. If Toole/Olive found that a v-curve is the most preferred response, Revel speakers would likely target that curve.
 

stevenswall

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...fidelity isn't my goal.

...I happen to prefer the sound of high fidelity.

Trying to make sense of this: Are you using the word Fidelity to mean accuracy and the non-connotative definition of fidelity in the first part?

Are you using "high fidelity" colloquially, in place of "hifi" and by that referring to a "hifi sound" that people sometimes define as a V curve in the second part?

Frustrating how in many youtube review videos, "hifi sound" has come to mean a response curve that doesn't have a high level of fidelity, and is rather a certain coloration.
 
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nerdoldnerdith

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I'm not ashamed to admit that fidelity isn't my goal. I'm just here to enjoy music, so subjective preference is my goal. I happen to prefer the sound of high fidelity, but if I didn't, then it would definitely not be my goal.

Revel and Genelec target the same target, but for different reasons. Genelec targets a flat response because that is what is most true to the source, and their objective is to show you the truth. Revel targets a flat response because that is the most preferred response under blind conditions. If Toole/Olive found that a v-curve is the most preferred response, Revel speakers would likely target that curve.
Professional studio monitors target a flat response because it is a neutral reference. There's nothing inherently special about a flat frequency response from an engineer's point of view, as he or she can mix the music to sound accurate on anything. It's translating that tonality to the consumer that is the hard part, so that is why both professional and consumer equipment targets (or ought to target) a flat reference so that everyone will be hearing the same thing. Revel targets a flat response because that's what people prefer, and people prefer that because the mixing engineer optimized the music to sound best on speakers with a flat frequency response - anything else would be a deviation from what he or she already determined sounds best.
 

Wes

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Don't assume that "fidelity" is a single axis with an end point, esp. for speakers. It is multi-variate and the apples & oranges comment is apropos.
 
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carewser

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I'm not ashamed to admit that fidelity isn't my goal. I'm just here to enjoy music, so subjective preference is my goal. I happen to prefer the sound of high fidelity, but if I didn't, then it would definitely not be my goal.

Revel and Genelec target the same target, but for different reasons. Genelec targets a flat response because that is what is most true to the source, and their objective is to show you the truth. Revel targets a flat response because that is the most preferred response under blind conditions. If Toole/Olive found that a v-curve is the most preferred response, Revel speakers would likely target that curve.

We're here for the frequency response, drivers, distortion, imaging, decibels and coloration so what's music got to do with any of that? ;)

I remember reading a story years ago about Canadian speaker designer Ian Paisley who designed many speakers over the years (I owned 2 pairs of Paisley Research speakers back in the day) and he once designed a speaker that had a frequency response of +/- .25 db on axis which I believe to this day is the flattest frequency response ever yet when people listened to it they didn't like it which I thought was fascinating and taught me that people actually like a bit of coloration in their music. With no equalization, most recordings sound dull and flat to me so i've always preferred my equalizers to be in a "V" shape because it just brings most recordings to life so i'm certainly no audio purist myself

This conversation is interesting to me because i've heard nothing but the highest praise for Maggies over the years, particularly for how well they image which confuses me because Maggies don't need to image as they usually take up most of the room
 
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Sancus

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Even if Magnepans had a perfectly flat response(and to be clear, we don't really know how the larger ones perform, and the interpretation of anechoic measurements for dipoles is not 100% clear), they'd still sound pretty different than the studio monitors that are typically used for mixing music.

But then, so do the wide dispersion Revel floorstanders. It is pretty clear in the research that people prefer things that aren't necessarily used in the mixing process. For example, (tonally accurate) early reflections, which are present to much lesser degree in a typical studio, are preferred.

Unless you are treating your listening room as if it were a studio and using main monitors that have narrow-ish dispersion you're probably not hearing the same thing that was heard during the mixing/mastering process. And I mean, there are some people out there who do try to achieve that.

But the research indicates it's not the general preference and that pretty much everyone is seeking some kind of euphonic effect that increases the spaciousness of a typical stereo recording. Really all this shows you is that stereo is an inherently busted format that needs to be "fixed" at the user's end because there just isn't enough spatial information in it to be satisfying. I think upmixing is a much better way of fixing it than fiddling around with speaker types that cannot be easily changed, but it's just an alternate solution to the same problem.

Magnepans are one way of adding some spatial effect, the smaller ones at least I don't think are a good way because they have so many issues like their problematic back wave that causes comb filtering and a major lack of SPL capability in the mid/upper bass region. But I don't see how you can characterize the overall goal as fundamentally different from a wide-dispersion floorstander. It's the same type of thing just a different flavor.
 

Wes

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A good way to think about the selection of electronics is "What has the least distortion of any type."

A good way to think about the selection of speakers is "They all distort like crazy, so what has the least distortion of the type that bothers me the most."

or you can just buy the T-shirt that says "Point Sources Suck"
 

stevenswall

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A good way to think about the selection of speakers is "They all distort like crazy, so what has the least distortion of the type that bothers me the most."

Could you give an example of an area where a Genelec monitor like the 8361 may have audible distortion that is worse than a magnepan?
 
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thewas

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I remember reading a story years ago about Canadian speaker designer Ian Paisley who designed many speakers over the years (I owned 2 pairs of Paisley Research speakers back in the day) and he once designed a speaker that had a frequency response of +/- .25 db on axis which I believe to this day is the flattest frequency response ever yet when people listened to it they didn't like it which I thought was fascinating and taught me that people actually like a bit of coloration in their music. With no equalization, most recordings sound dull and flat to me so i've always preferred my equalizers to be in a "V" shape because to me it just brings most recordings to life so i'm certainly no audio purist myself
Firstly the on-axis FR has only a limited information value about neutral reproduction, secondly if most records would sound flat and dull with neutral reproduction, that would mean there were mixed by "V shaped" monitors and if we continue using such we just continue audios circle of confusion. Also like Toole says isn't it better to have neutral loudspeakers and use an EQ per taste for such recordings which is much more flexible and better matched to ones taste than by hoping to find for every messed up recording the "perfectly matching loudspeaker"?
 

richard12511

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Trying to make sense of this: Are you using the word Fidelity to mean accuracy and the non-connotative definition of fidelity in the first part?

Are you using "high fidelity" colloquially, in place of "hifi" and by that referring to a "hifi sound" that people sometimes define as a V curve in the second part?

Frustrating how in many youtube review videos, "hifi sound" has come to mean a response curve that doesn't have a high level of fidelity, and is rather a certain coloration.

Yeah I've heard that too in some youtube reviews. Usually it goes along side "sparkly top end" and means extra treble.

I meant high fidelity as true to the source.
 
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