Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[hege]

i have 3 of them in front of me. Even used in 2.0 mode at 2m i usually cannot put them full blast. That’s ok for fun for 2 minutes.

These kinds of comments are meaningless without specific data. Are you listening to something that actually has bass? I can make my 1032C blink easily, and I'm pretty sure my 10" have a lot more bass headroom than small 6,5" equivalent race-track elements. Genelec provides no long term SPL data for <100hz.

Electronic music can easily have 15dB+ more lows than highs, I can listen at 80dB(A) all day while C/Z-weighting shows over 100dB.

important edit: "Limiter comparisons" may not be valid, since 8341A compared to 1032C has much earlier high pass filter. If amplifier isn't even feeded 30-40hz audio, it won't get as warm? Small speakers are small speakers. Using GLM 50hz highpass on my 1032C raises the SPL limit a lot.

Few quick examples that start blinking my 1032C limiter:

https://timaminovsk.bandcamp.com/album/moment (track 4 especially)
https://singularityrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/sin008-a-distant-hand
https://scuffedrecs.bandcamp.com/track/destroy-the-silence (one of the hottest 40hz examples that I've encountered.. try not to fry your unprotected passive speakers..)

Yes, I'm near field ~220cm in a very damped (RT60 ~0.2s) 4x7m basement with speakers against the front wall.

Actually I'm not using any EQ right now, aside from the 50hz crossover to BMS's and small GLM Sound Profiler tilt downwards. You can see my concrete basement boosts lows naturally, I'm keeping it as is for a nice warm sound that actually can be felt when required..

I can understand that for "harman sucks / eq everything flat" people, playing loud can be horrible since highs will pierce while nothing is physically felt..

This is what looks like "partying" (again notice the Z/A weighting difference), I don't go louder than this at home. At clubs I use -15dB custom molded Elacin ear plugs.

 

[Psycho Squid]

Thanks for the review. I own a pair of these and they are amazing. Even better when paired with the GLM-kit (room correction) and a good DAC. I don't think I'll look for another speaker or brand in the future.

 

[Hephaestus]

These kinds of comments are meaningless without specific data. Are you listening to something that actually has bass? I can make my 1032C blink easily, and I'm pretty sure my 10" have a lot more bass headroom than small 6,5" equivalent race-track elements. Genelec provides no long term SPL data for <100hz.

Electronic music can easily have 15dB+ more lows than highs, I can listen at 80dB(A) all day while C/Z-weighting shows over 100dB.

important edit: "Limiter comparisons" may not be valid, since 8341A compared to 1032C has much earlier high pass filter. If amplifier isn't even feeded 30-40hz audio, it won't get as warm? Small speakers are small speakers. Using GLM 50hz highpass on my 1032C raises the SPL limit a lot.

Few quick examples that start blinking my 1032C limiter:

https://timaminovsk.bandcamp.com/album/moment (track 4 especially)
https://singularityrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/sin008-a-distant-hand
https://scuffedrecs.bandcamp.com/track/destroy-the-silence (one of the hottest 40hz examples that I've encountered.. try not to fry your unprotected passive speakers..)

Yes, I'm near field ~220cm in a very damped (RT60 ~0.2s) 4x7m basement with speakers against the front wall.

Actually I'm not using any EQ right now, aside from the 50hz crossover to BMS's and small GLM Sound Profiler tilt downwards. You can see my concrete basement boosts lows naturally, I'm keeping it as is for a nice warm sound that actually can be felt when required..

I can understand that for "harman sucks / eq everything flat" people, playing loud can be horrible since highs will pierce while nothing is physically felt..

View attachment 52178

This is what looks like "partying" (again notice the Z/A weighting difference), I don't go louder than this at home. At clubs I use -15dB custom molded Elacin ear plugs.

View attachment 52176View attachment 52177

2.2 meters listening distance falls in mid-field category.

 

[aarons915]

i have 3 of them in front of me. Even used in 2.0 mode at 2m i usually cannot put them full blast. That’s ok for fun for 2 minutes. They do distort at high volume (That is: me with earplugs).
in 2.1 (with a 7370 subwoofer, i cannot stay in the room more than 1 min at -3db). In 5.1 I never tried to go above -9db.
the room is 4mx5m. I agree they are nearfield and are not designed for a large room. If they are in front of you,
they have enough for most use. With a subwoofer, you can go party mode for hours. this subwoofer is incredible (it is expensive thus I expected as much).

This is a good point and is a good reason why we need some kind of standardized test on realistic output. I personally think most of the speakers, especially small ones, should have a 4th order high pass at 80Hz in place during listening and/or max output tests since that's how they will be used in practice. I have no doubt that a DSP speaker with small woofers will run out of headroom quickly when run full range but I bet they get much louder when high passed. As long as a speaker can reach 90 db @ 1 meter with low distortion, that will cover the vast majority of peoples' SPL requirements.

 

[Jon AA]

As long as a speaker can reach 90 db @ 1 meter with low distortion, that will cover the vast majority of peoples' SPL requirements.

I don't agree with that. Well, I guess it depends on who you mean by "most people." "Most people" who are happy with a small bluetooth smart speaker, or their built-in TV speakers, sure. But if you throw those out and concentrate on people serious about audio I think there's a rather large percentage that would not be satisfied with a speaker that distorts above 90 db at 1 meter.

 

[Sancus]

But if you throw those out and concentrate on people serious about audio I think there's a rather large percentage that would not be satisfied with a speaker that distorts above 90 db at 1 meter.

Yeah, 90db SPL @ 1m seems insufficient. I've recently done some SPL checks with REW and I tend to listen at 75-90db(C), which is sometimes considerably less in db(A) depending on the bass levels in content. And that's at 2m, so it would already exceed 90db@1m, and leaves no headroom at all for any transients above that. Plus I'm certain some people like it considerably louder. I suspect 100-110db @ 1m is a more realistic requirement for most people.

And the 8341a will do 100-110db@1m no trouble, just not below 100hz...

 

[aarons915]

I don't agree with that. Well, I guess it depends on who you mean by "most people." "Most people" who are happy with a small bluetooth smart speaker, or their built-in TV speakers, sure. But if you throw those out and concentrate on people serious about audio I think there's a rather large percentage that would not be satisfied with a speaker that distorts above 90 db at 1 meter.

I mean the average music or movie listener, it's very rare on the forums to hear of someone listening at even Reference level for movies, most are around 75db average instead of 85. When I measure my loudest levels at my listening position when I'm really rocking out, the absolute max is around 85 db for me, I can't imagine people regularly listening much louder than that. A single speaker that can achieve 90db @ 1 meter full range will be able to play at least 95db at the listening position, especially when you consider it will be high-passed in a room and at least 2 speakers playing at a time. Are there really people who listen louder than 95db at their listening position? I should also note that I had my hearing tested recently and my thresholds are still in the range of children, so maybe everything just sounds louder to me...I don't know.

 

[aarons915]

Yeah, 90db SPL @ 1m seems insufficient. I've recently done some SPL checks with REW and I tend to listen at 75-90db(C), which is sometimes considerably less in db(A) depending on the bass levels in content. And that's at 2m, so it would already exceed 90db@1m, and leaves no headroom at all for any transients above that. Plus I'm certain some people like it considerably louder. I suspect 100-110db @ 1m is a more realistic requirement for most people.

And the 8341a will do 100-110db@1m no trouble, just not below 100hz...

So you think most people listen at Club or concert levels lol? I don't think so but I could be wrong, I'd be curious if many on this forum do listen that loud. And yes that's why you add subs to the 8341, there's no reason to not have a couple subs these days regardless of whether you have booshelf or tower speakers, unless you don't care about good bass response throughout the room.

 

[Sancus]

When I measure my loudest levels at my listening position when I'm really rocking out, the absolute max is around 85 db for me, I can't imagine people regularly listening much louder than that. A single speaker that can achieve 90db @ 1 meter full range will be able to play at least 95db at the listening position, especially when you consider it will be high-passed in a room and at least 2 speakers playing at a time. Are there really people who listen louder than 95db at their listening position? I should also note that I had my hearing tested recently and my thresholds are still in the range of children, so maybe everything just sounds louder to me...I don't know.

Yes, if you consider age-related hearing loss and damage, there are people who would prefer 10db more than you without trouble. Also, you can't use averages as the 'absolute max'. You need to include at least 5-10db headroom over and above whatever your SPL meter says for db(C), otherwise transients will be distorted or compressed. THX specification includes 20db SPL for headroom, which is not usually the case for music, but is a good example of what a truly safe margin looks like.

 

[Sancus]

So you think most people listen at Club or concert levels lol?

Club/concert levels are more like 100db+, they are typically genuinely unsafe for your hearing. 85db(C) is not.

If you listen at 85db your speakers need to go AT LEAST 95db if not 105db to ensure loud transients are played correctly.

 

[aarons915]

Yes, if you consider age-related hearing loss and damage, there are people who would prefer 10db more than you without trouble. Also, you can't use averages as the 'absolute max'. You need to include at least 5-10db headroom over and above whatever your SPL meter says for db(C), otherwise transients will be distorted or compressed. THX specification includes 20db SPL for headroom, which is not usually the case for music, but is a good example of what a truly safe margin looks like.

I kind of suspect that's the case, I've had older friends listen to my system and want me to keep turning it up when I think it's pretty damn loud. When I say absolute max, I have my SPL meter set to "max" so it's not average levels, it should include the loudest peaks but yes only for music so the peaks aren't that high. When I was referring to club or concert levels it was in response to a safe limit being 100-110db @ 1 meter, if that is to ensure un-distorted transients it makes a bit more sense but I still say high passing speakers takes a lot of the load off of speakers. A single speaker run full range (90db @1 meter) with low distortion shouldn't have a problem with 105db transients in an actual room, with multiple speakers playing and high passed at 80Hz. Either way, I still think some kind of test like Max SPL at 10% Distortion at 100Hz would be useful just to get an idea on different speakers' relative SPL capabilities.

 

[Gnasherrr]

Well what I can say. I am just even happier 8351b owner.

 

[Jon AA]

I mean the average music or movie listener, it's very rare on the forums to hear of someone listening at even Reference level for movies, most are around 75db average instead of 85.

Even watching a movie at -10 from reference, that requires 95 db peaks at the listening position (that's in the upper range, subs will hit 105). Nobody sits 1m away from a large TV or projector screen. Not even with small TVs. Three times that distance is much more the norm. At just 10 feet away you've tripled the distance requiring a lot more than 95 db at 1 m.

 

[q3cpma]

Well what I can say. I am just even happier 8351b owner.

Probably one of the best speakers available if coupled with a sub. A bit jealous, to be honest.

 

[aarons915]

Even watching a movie at -10 from reference, that requires 95 db peaks at the listening position (that's in the upper range, subs will hit 105). Nobody sits 1m away from a large TV or projector screen. Not even with small TVs. Three times that distance is much more the norm. At just 10 feet away you've tripled the distance requiring a lot more than 95 db at 1 m.

Agreed but remember we're talking about a single speaker playing full range at 90 db in an anechoic chamber when talking about distortion measurements. When you have a 5.1 setup high passed at 80Hz playing in a room with reflections, it changes the calculations considerably.

The example I always use is the LS50, which is measured on Soundstage. The distortion measurement hits about 10% at 100Hz at 90 db @ 2 meters, 2 speakers playing in a room at this level would be 102 db I believe and this is about the worst performing speaker I have seen regarding distortion levels and I haven't seen any study showing that even 10% THD is audible, at least in the bass.

 

[Jon AA]

Honestly that sounds like a bit of wishful thinking. You don't gain 12 db by adding another speaker and placing them in a room. Even if you stack one on top of the other and the room is a closet. Most of the "room gain" is in the low frequencies, even for a small room (this is for a room with maximum dimension of 15'):

Boundary gain can reach a little higher in frequency but that's dependent upon how close the speaker is to boundaries.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the 8341A, it's clearly a fantastic speaker. But it's designed for near field monitoring.

I don't think anybody trying to use a speaker with such limited capabilities (and that includes a ton of bookshelf speakers and many towers with low sensitivity and power handling capability) for primary use, unless they're in a really small room and/or put them on stands really close to the listener, is going to be experiencing anything close to what they should with dynamic material. Of course, most popular music has no dynamics so it depends greatly on to what one likes to listen. Well recorded classical music and action movies tend to have a huge dynamic range compared with most popular music. I think many (as has been the fad in recent years) greatly over-estimate what "adding a sub" to a small set of speakers can accomplish.

 

[soundwave76]

Thanks for the review. I own a pair of these and they are amazing. Even better when paired with the GLM-kit (room correction) and a good DAC. I don't think I'll look for another speaker or brand in the future.

So you are using an external DAC and room correction at the same time, thus feeding an analog signal to these? Are you aware that the 8341 will do an AD conversion to your signal and then another DA conversion after the room correction dsp? This is not a wise way to use these. You should feed digital signal to the 8341 and forget external dacs.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

So you are using an external DAC and room correction at the same time, thus feeding an analog signal to these? Are you aware that the 8341 will do an AD conversion to your signal and then another DA conversion after the room correction dsp? This is not a wise way to use these. You should feed digital signal to the 8341 and forget external dacs.

That does appear the most direct route to go...but what is a cost effective way to do this and control the volume too? Seems to me that direct digital IN would be full volume!

I wish Genelec would sell a kit that that allowed direct digital input with volume control for the home user.

 

[Purité Audio]

I used to use a Weiss INT converter, AES with attenuator with my 8260’s, I use an RME ADI unit now, or a vortexbox streamer/computer with AES / attenuator, there aren’t too many options.
Keith

 

[MZKM]

Wouldn’t proper crossover design and baffle placement be equally important?

Sure, but that’s on the designer; you can’t overcome poor native driver performance.