Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[HairyEars]

I see a lot of disagreement in regard to that subject.

Never in my life have I heard that hypothesis, and it makes zero sense to me. However, if some people like the sound of echo, by all means, go for it.
Whatever rocks your boat.

Just to clarify, a certain level of diffusion is a welcome in a well-treated room, as too much dampening can yield a deaden sensation.

 

[Sancus]

Never in my life have I heard that hypothesis, and it makes zero sense to me. However, if some people like the sound of echo, by all means, go for it.

Research has indicated that people prefer speakers with wider dispersion on average. Now, we don't really know if that's a strong majority or what, nor how different speaker configurations and rooms impact it, if at all. And it's certainly not universally true.

But it stands to reason that if you're in the wider dispersion camp, then yes, you like echo, because if you use a speaker like the Revel Salon 2 in the farfield, you're absolutely going to hear a *lot* more reflections than a main monitor with extremely narrow dispersion like the S360A(which looks like +/- 45 degrees according to spec).

In the relatively-recent AVSForum blind test of the Salon 2 vs JBL M2, another very narrow dispersion main monitor, the Salon came out on top. Whether that's the main reason or not, of course, is up for debate. But it does seem to be quite common that people prefer the level of reflections that you see in the yellow-colored regions on the Genelec chart.

So whether or not going up to main monitors is actually better for you or not really depends on preference more than listening distance alone, I would say.

 

[Jon AA]

To enjoy Genelec speakers to the full, the company's placement guidelines should be followed. https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

I, for one, think that page of guidelines is fantastic! I really wish other (any?) speaker manufacturers would publish the same. Yes, they are only guidelines and are from a control room perspective, but at a glance one can get a really good idea of how the various models interact with rooms of various sizes and different listening distances. That's information, when taken in context, people can apply to their own use case to help select the right speaker.

There's way too much (at least in the consumer market) of a tendency in this industry to promote "whatever speaker it is we are marketing the hell out of at this time" as the correct answer to every question.

 

[LTig]

Never in my life have I heard that hypothesis, and it makes zero sense to me. However, if some people like the sound of echo, by all means, go for it.

There is no echo in typical home size rooms. Google "precedence effect" or "Haas effect". The reflections enhance loudness and width of soundstage what some 80+ % of listeners prefer, according to research.

 

[tuga]

There is no echo in typical home size rooms. Google "precedence effect" or "Haas effect". The reflections enhance loudness and width of soundstage what some 80+ % of listeners prefer, according to research.

The (sound of) reflections are not produced by the speakers so I think it would be more accurate to call them distortions, or at least interference.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

There is no echo in typical home size rooms. Google "precedence effect" or "Haas effect". The reflections enhance loudness and width of soundstage what some 80+ % of listeners prefer, according to research.

Most home listening rooms are either

1. Too much reverb below 500hz, too little reverb above 2000hz (nasty carpet)

2. Too much reverb at all frequencies and possibly some floor resonances (hard floor)

If the system is in a living room, then absorption of first sidewall and rear wall reflections is usually necessary for sound quality.

 

[Ron Texas]

Although this is the highest scoring speaker so far, I would go with the R3's due to issues with maximum volume and the very high cost of the Genelec monitors. Both of them are going to need sub's so that part is equal and one doesn't need to spend a ton of money on electronics to make the Kef's sing.

 

[LTig]

The (sound of) reflections are not produced by the speakers so I think it would be more accurate to call them distortions, or at least interference.

Within certain delay ranges those reflections are not heared as echo or reverb. Again: google precedence effect, or better read @Floyd Toole's book.

 

[tuga]

Wirhin certain delay ranges those reflections are not heared as echo or reverb. Again: google precedence effect, or better read @Floyd Toole's book.

People worry about diffraction and directivity but not the quality of the reflections. Interesting.

 

[LTig]

Most home listening rooms are either

1. Too much reverb below 500hz, too little reverb above 2000hz (nasty carpet)

2. Too much reverb at all frequencies and possibly some floor resonances (hard floor)

If the system is in a living room, then absorption of first sidewall and rear wall reflections is usually necessary for sound quality.

My ex neighbour would disagree. He had Focal floor standers in an almost empty room which threw a very wide and totally diffuse soundstage, but preferred it over my quite dry living room with lots of furniture and bookshelfs (even in the middle of the room behind the LP). Well, I preferred my soundstage by a wide margin, so all was good.

 

[LTig]

People worry about diffraction and directivity but not the quality of the reflections. Interesting.

This I did not say. The smoothness of the reflextion does matter, otherwise the precedence effect may collapse. That's the reason to measure the spinorama in the first place.

 

[HairyEars]

Research has indicated that people prefer speakers with wider dispersion on average. Now, we don't really know if that's a strong majority or what, nor how different speaker configurations and rooms impact it, if at all. And it's certainly not universally true.

But it stands to reason that if you're in the wider dispersion camp, then yes, you like echo, because if you use a speaker like the Revel Salon 2 in the farfield, you're absolutely going to hear a *lot* more reflections than a main monitor with extremely narrow dispersion like the S360A(which looks like +/- 45 degrees according to spec).

In the relatively-recent AVSForum blind test of the Salon 2 vs JBL M2, another very narrow dispersion main monitor, the Salon came out on top. Whether that's the main reason or not, of course, is up for debate. But it does seem to be quite common that people prefer the level of reflections that you see in the yellow-colored regions on the Genelec chart.

So whether or not going up to main monitors is actually better for you or not really depends on preference more than listening distance alone, I would say.

Thank you for the sensible post.

I can see value in your exposition, but even if people prefer a more dispersive sound, it doesn’t necessarily mean they like it to echo. In other words, instead of comparing two different speakers, the experiment should deploy the same speaker in two different rooms—one treated, the other with flutter echo—and canvas people’s opinions. I reckon that would settle the question.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thank you for the sensible post.

I can see value in your exposition, but even if people prefer a more dispersive sound, it doesn’t necessarily mean they like it to echo. In other words, instead of comparing two different speakers, the experiment should deploy the same speaker in two different rooms—one treated, the other with flutter echo—and canvas people’s opinions. I reckon that would settle the question.

There is no suggestion that flutter echo is desirable.

 

[Sancus]

Thank you for the sensible post.

I can see value in your exposition, but even if people prefer a more dispersive sound, it doesn’t necessarily mean they like it to echo. In other words, instead of comparing two different speakers, the experiment should deploy the same speaker in two different rooms—one treated, the other with flutter echo—and canvas people’s opinions. I reckon that would settle the question.

Well, note that I only used the word echo because you did in your post. It's probably not the correct term to characterize most household rooms with a wide dispersion speaker in it relative to a narrow dispersion one.

Reflections that arrive close to the direct sound aren't perceived subjectively as echo and I don't think anyone is *actually* looking for real echo in their home listening rooms. Any studio monitor at 3 or 4 meters meters in a normal room definitely does NOT produce anything that I would subjectively call echo.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

My ex neighbour would disagree. He had Focal floor standers in an almost empty room which threw a very wide and totally diffuse soundstage, but preferred it over my quite dry living room with lots of furniture and bookshelfs (even in the middle of the room behind the LP). Well, I preferred my soundstage by a wide margin, so all was good.

Using acoustic treatment, he can get better sense of spaciousness than bare walls, and far better imaging and detail.

 

[infinitesymphony]

A preference for wider directivity is not necessarily a preference for room reflections. You can treat reflections and still use a wider soundstage to your advantage. Personally, I don't like having to sit rod-straight with my head located dead center in the listening position. I want it to sound almost as good if I move my head laterally to adjust something, get up and walk around, dance a little bit, etc.

My ex neighbour would disagree. He had Focal floor standers in an almost empty room which threw a very wide and totally diffuse soundstage, but preferred it over my quite dry living room with lots of furniture and bookshelfs (even in the middle of the room behind the LP). Well, I preferred my soundstage by a wide margin, so all was good.

Sounds like you preferred your soundstage by a narrow margin to me.

 

[HairyEars]

There is no suggestion that flutter echo is desirable.

The salient point is not to conflate between people's preference to wide dispersion with reflections.
That is yet to be tested.

 

[richard12511]

I think it's important to note that Amir tests far field without subs. This speakers output is heavily limited by bass output. I still think this is by far the best speaker tested so far if you plan on using subs.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The salient point is not to conflate between people's preference to wide dispersion with reflections.
That is yet to be tested.

The research of interest investigates the positive effects of strong simulated lateral reflections on perceived spaciousness, envelopment (LEV) and apparent source width (ASW) (the basis of which is postulated to be low levels of interaural cross-correlation for laterally reflected sounds, FWIW).

Note that for strong lateral reflections to be present in a real listening room, two preconditions must be met:

1. loudspeakers with reasonably wide directivity
2. lateral reflective surfaces

In other words, it doesn't make sense to speak of this research narrowly in terms of loudspeaker directivity only, since the presence of lateral reflective surfaces is a necessary precondition for lateral reflections.

 

[Sancus]

A preference for wider directivity is not necessarily a preference for room reflections. You can treat reflections and still use a wider soundstage to your advantage. Personally, I don't like having to sit rod-straight with my head located dead center in the listening position. I want it to sound almost as good if I move my head laterally to adjust something, get up and walk around, dance a little bit, etc.

I mean, you can certainly treat reflections. But a Genelec with +/- 60 degree perfectly even dispersion is going to work great for all the things you just listed. You are never going to listen more than 45 degrees off axis, even if you stand up in front of a nearfield setup that is aimed at seating position. And in almost all midfield or farfield cases, you're staying within +/- 20 degrees. Of course, this is actually one of the reasons I like the Genelec Ones too, because with a typical (good) speaker that has broader, even horizontal dispersion, but narrow, chewed up vertical dispersion, standing up will put you smack in the middle of the crossover cancellations which sound absolutely terrible.

Unless I'm missing something, the entire value of dispersion to the 45+(or greater) degree region of a speaker has to be the reflections it causes. If you use treatments to absorb all the sound coming from those angles, aren't you really just accomplishing the same thing as a narrow dispersion speaker, but with way more work??