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Genelec 8330A Review (Studio Monitor)

Trell

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Got around to updating 4.0 to 4.1 (AutoCal2) Calibration today. Some may be interested in the changes. As mentioned.. the room is in a bit of a mess right now and not in the exact state as it was during the original calibration. So the comparison is not 1:1, but I think the room measurements are close enough to get an idea of the changes.

Most important take away is to review how the major peaks have been handled compared to the previous iteration:

Using 4.0:
View attachment 147362

Using 4.1 (AutoCal2) - No High Shelf:
View attachment 147363
Open both images in two tabs and Ctrl+Tab between the two. Again, ignore the slight differences outside of the major peaks due to a changing room. The most immediate improvements are the:
* Flatter Sub Response, due to more aggressive use of notches.
* Flatter 100Hz - 1KHz region, also due to more aggressive use of notch.

Amusingly, the Level Comps and Sub Phase was changed; though I'm not entirely sure why. Perhaps it's a at a higher level due to compensating for my next point. Which...

* AutoCal2 now applies a High Shelf. The above screenshot has it removed for easier comparison between the two "Flat" responses. My understanding, based on Mr. Lund's comments, is this is now applied to achieve a flatter perceived sound and applied to rooms which are not your ideal scenario (Certainly not mine, :rolleyes:....) In any case, this is how the response actually looks after a raw calibration:
View attachment 147364

My room was given about -2dB High Shelves around 650Hz.

It's hard to give an unbias and conclusive review at this moment. The first two corrections are honestly very hard to differentiate. The one with the new High Shelf is very obvious, so I'll be listening between this and the flat 4.1 correction over the next few weeks to judge.

Below is from my 8330A+7360A with crossover at 95Hz matched to right speaker using GLM 4.1 with their new AutoCal 2 algorithms. The REW is from my MLP but I used 10 points around MLP for the GLM. I'm not sure that I disabled the high shelf (labelled Hf Tilt 6kHz, -2dB) before measuring with REW, sorry, I believe I did though.

Left monitor got a high shelf tilt, the right did not. Not seen below directly: Left speaker monitor at 2kHz with gain -1.2 and Q 1.7, and right monitor gain -1.4 and Q 1.3

Sounds great, before and now.

1628955622294.png
 

richard12511

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I think it probably didn't. And you'd need to download GLM 4.1, and then click on the speaker in the group config and do the firmware update. I just did this for all of my Genelecs and it's kind of annoying when you have a bunch since there was no way to just queue them all up that I could find, lol.

I'm guessing you're probably right. The fact that this GLM(or firmware) provides a filter right where this speaker's main flaw is(well above room EQ zone, where GLM normally stops) just seems to coincidental. Does @amirm still have this speaker? Maybe after doing the GLM review he can see if the 2kHz resonance is fixed.

Would be nice if Genelec could comment on this, so we know how to review Genelec digital speakers going forward.
 

Sancus

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I'm guessing you're probably right. The fact that this GLM(or firmware) provides a filter right where this speaker's main flaw is(well above room EQ zone, where GLM normally stops) just seems to coincidental. Does @amirm still have this speaker? Maybe after doing the GLM review he can see if the 2kHz resonance is fixed.

Now I'm not so sure though. Looking at @KaLam1ty's post I don't see a dedicated 2khz notch filter even after the 4.1 upgrade. I assume firmware updates were applied?
 

buxtehude

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One other major advantage of 8330 and all the Genelec digital lineup (except 8320 which doesn't have AES input) is that I don't have to worry about which DAC and DSP to use. I just love the idea that DAC, DSP, and speaker are packaged into a single unit by engineers at Genelec. Eliminating all the variables for sound coloration. I only have limited time and it gives me a headache just thinking about trying to find the right DAC DSP speaker combo if I were to buy them separately. SPDIF out of my interface straight into 8330. Run GLM calibration once. Done. Enjoying my music.
 

buxtehude

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Tangband

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You can get some SPDIF (optical or coax) to AES adapter
Yes, thats true.
But, an ordinary spdif cable with RCA -xlr is good enough. If the cable to the first Genelec loudspeaker is no longer than 3 meters.
Such as this 110 Ohm cable from HOSA.
https://www.emusic.se/produkt/12059/hosa-xrm-110-xlr-hane-rca-3m

You then daisychain the first Genelec loudspeaker digital out to the next, digital in, using dxm xlr cable that is 110 Ohm.
Such as this:
https://musikcentralen.se/adam-hall-k3dmf0300-dmxaesebu-cable

You can modify a RCA -xlr cable with a small resistor inside the RCA connector. Cost about 50 cents. That way you can get 110 Ohm AES/EBU standard with no reflections in the cable with a RCA/spdif-source. This is only necessary if you have a very long RCA -xlr cable from the digital source to the first Genelec loudspeaker.
——————-
Even if you have a very good external dac such as topping or benchmark dac3 and using analog input on the Genelecs, the sound with digital connection to the Genelec 83xx loudspeakers is sligthly better - ie better dynamics and a slightly clearer sound when feeding the dsp crossover inside the loudspeakers with a digital signal, without extra AD conversion.

So, even with a rather cheap digital source with digital volume regulation at digital spdif out, such as an Yamaha wxc50, the sound is better than : Benchmark dac 3 - analog input on the Genelec 83xx.

At an audiophile perspective thats very good to know, heck - some of us has previously bought dacs for 1000 dollars ! No need for that with 83xx series.:)
 
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Sprint

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If you upgrade to GLM 4.1 you can have a positive tilting low shelf with up to +3 dB for the 8330A, and you don't need that high shelf you've set from 100 Hz.

Thanks for the tip! Sure, makes definitely sense to upgrade to 4.1 and re-run the measurements. The -2.0 db high shelf from 100HZ was set manually by me after I saw some GLM set up tips from these YouTube videos (sorry in German) - Video 1 and Video 2. To have a bit hifi like set up, it was proposed to have these high shelf to help boosting up the bass a bit.
 
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Trell

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Thanks for the tip! Sure, makes definitely sense to upgrade to 4.1 and re-run the measurements. The -2.0 db high shelf from 100HZ was set manually by me after I saw some GLM set up tips from these YouTube videos (sorry in German) - Video 1 and Video 2. To have a bit hifi like set up, it was proposed to have these high shelf to help boosting up the bass a bit.

I don't think you'll have to re-run the measurements to use the new positive tilt in GLM 4.1 as the new options are available for my older GLM 4.0 measurements. You might have to update the firmware of your monitors, though.

It was my guess that you added the high shelf for bass increase as I've seen it before, and that was what I referred to in my post. Sorry that I was unclear.
 

Tangband

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My 8340 and no correction in the treble-area with GLM sounds very good, but to get the sound mirroring the ”very best one have heard ”, a -1dB shelving from 3 kHz and higher makes the soundbalance just perfect in my room.

Its worth experimenting probably also with 8330a.
The GLM is NOT only for room-corrections, you can also fine-tune the sound manually at the higher frequencies.
 
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Trell

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My 8340 and no correction in the treble-area with GLM sounds very good, but to get the sound mirroring the ”very best one have heard ”, a -1dB shelving from 3 kHz and higher makes the soundbalance just perfect in my room.

Its worth experimenting probably also with 8330a.
The GLM is NOT only for room-corrections, you can also fine-tune the sound in the higher frequencies.

Absolutely GLM is not only for room compensation.
 

EchoChamber

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Isn't the only difference between 8330A and 8030C the SAM room correction? Amps, drivers, enclosure all the same?
So it's strange that these have that 1-3K bump. And I don't remember a mention of the clipping light coming on for the 96dB distortion sweep with the 8030c.
I had them both and I find them to subjectively sound different. The 8030C not as involving somehow, more distant, cold and more fatiguing in my untreated room… My guess is that the quality of the crossover and amp on the 8330A is higher.

I also find having the GLM kit with any SAM monitor is essential to get the most out of them. I used REW to plot a room compensation curve for the 8030C’s, much harder and not quite the same results as Genelec’s room correction software…
 

Tangband

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Possibly. I have sent the data to them but didn't want to hold up the review for it. Getting a hold of companies during summer is difficult given the vacations....
Hmm….Is there a slight possibility that Genelec has made a little peak at 1,7 KHz with 8330a, and Kef did the same with ls50 meta , so that two loudspeakers in stereo placed in a triangle from the listener will sound more psykoacoustically right ?
CB04D8EE-36B1-418A-91FB-74E6241E86A0.png
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nophonic-vs-stereophonic-timbre-change.15829/
 
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Ismapics

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KaLam1ty

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Below is from my 8330A+7360A with crossover at 95Hz matched to right speaker using GLM 4.1 with their new AutoCal 2 algorithms. The REW is from my MLP but I used 10 points around MLP for the GLM. I'm not sure that I disabled the high shelf (labelled Hf Tilt 6kHz, -2dB) before measuring with REW, sorry, I believe I did though.

Left monitor got a high shelf tilt, the right did not. Not seen below directly: Left speaker monitor at 2kHz with gain -1.2 and Q 1.7, and right monitor gain -1.4 and Q 1.3

Sounds great, before and now.

View attachment 147457

Seeing only one shelf applied is quite fascinating, and it really makes me wonder what the logic is behind how they apply it. It's quite drastic a change and always seems to be dropped around the 600-700Hz region with a significant -2dB cut.

If I may ask, how is your room layout and listening distance? I'm guessing there is some asymmetry in your room layout?

With how significant the shelf is, I would've imagined it gets applied mostly globally, with some minor adjustments here-and-there. As with my desk setup, I do have a wall fairly close to my right, then a small open hallway directly opposite to it; hence the variation in the shelves for my measurement. To see it get omitted completely for one side is interesting. Amusingly, it REW still shows very similar evenness.
 

Trell

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Seeing only one shelf applied is quite fascinating, and it really makes me wonder what the logic is behind how they apply it. It's quite drastic a change and always seems to be dropped around the 600-700Hz region with a significant -2dB cut.

If I may ask, how is your room layout and listening distance? I'm guessing there is some asymmetry in your room layout?

With how significant the shelf is, I would've imagined it gets applied mostly globally, with some minor adjustments here-and-there. As with my desk setup, I do have a wall fairly close to my right, then a small open hallway directly opposite to it; hence the variation in the shelves for my measurement. To see it get omitted completely for one side is interesting. Amusingly, it REW still shows very similar evenness.

In the picture in the link below my system is the one in the corner. Small room and sit about 0.8m to 1.0m from the monitors.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...view-powered-monitor.23831/page-2#post-800929
 

markb

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Yes - although the GLM adapter can be used in standalone, with either a wired volume control (a potentiometer) or a wireless, RF remote for volume control, I agree it remains a bit of a clunky solution that doesn't always meet all needs.

I am actually working on some open source software now (and perhaps some hardware later) that may be able to help with this in some use cases. I hope to post more details within a few days.

Details posted in a new thread. TL;DR: I am working on a Python module that allows control of Genelec SAM monitors, including volume control, mute, etc, and can be integrated with other software or hardware. You still need the GLM USB adapter atm, but not GLM the application.
 

markb

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Well, maybe. The GLM filters can be stored in the speaker after all. It is POSSIBLE that the firmware update applies the filter and then GLM just shows it because they chose to use a GLM filter slot and not one of the "hidden" ones because those were already filed with important filters.

I think that’s pretty unlikely; in my reverse engineering of the GLM communication protocol I’ve found that GLM actually reads very little status information from the monitors, and instead just declares all the parameters that it wants to see (from its setup files), overwriting whatever was active in the monitor. But it’s possible indeed.
 

Spocko

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One other major advantage of 8330 and all the Genelec digital lineup (except 8320 which doesn't have AES input) is that I don't have to worry about which DAC and DSP to use. I just love the idea that DAC, DSP, and speaker are packaged into a single unit by engineers at Genelec. Eliminating all the variables for sound coloration. I only have limited time and it gives me a headache just thinking about trying to find the right DAC DSP speaker combo if I were to buy them separately. SPDIF out of my interface straight into 8330. Run GLM calibration once. Done. Enjoying my music.
Yep, exactly my reason for choosing an all Genelec home theater setup - eliminate as many variables and mind numbing equipment matching issues as possible.
 
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