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Genelec 8050B Review (Studio Monitor)

Sancus

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I don't see much benefit. We have the spinorama for 8341A and SPL/distortion for 8361A.

It's about completionism, sir! Plus I think there's a high chance it would take the score record. But yeah I agree it's not a huge priority or anything, I just think it would be a fun review and finding out the woofer's performance at 96dB would be somewhat useful.
 

Thomas_A

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Subjectively, what effect would you say this has. The 8030c I own has the same dip, and it shows in all of my MM measurements, and @Maiky76 s EQ tweak fixes it. I also have the M105 on hand to compare and see if I can notice the difference.

It reduces the timbral effects of comb filtering, i.e. the stereo system errors. Objectively and subjectively there is an exaggeration of the 2-4 kHz region vs the 1-2 kHz region when speakers are used in stereo vs mono.
 

daftcombo

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It reduces the timbral effects of comb filtering, i.e. the stereo system errors. Objectively and subjectively there is an exaggeration of the 2-4 kHz region vs the 1-2 kHz region when speakers are used in stereo vs mono.
This is what you have in mind, I think.
1599509576825.png
 

Thomas_A

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This is what you have in mind, I think.
View attachment 114115
Yes. Even in normally reflected room there is a timbral shift between a single mono speaker and a mono source played in a stereo setup. A speaker that has a dip in the 1-2 kHz region followed by peaking 2-4 kHz will just exaggerate the effect. I prefer the opposite. This is not a solution to the problem but compromises due to the flaws of the stereo system.
 

daftcombo

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Yes. Even in normally reflected room there is a timbral shift between a single mono speaker and a mono source played in a stereo setup. A speaker that has a dip in the 1-2 kHz region followed by peaking 2-4 kHz will just exaggerate the effect. I prefer the opposite. This is not a solution to the problem but compromises due to the flaws of the stereo system.
Aren't stereo recordings mastered & monitored in stereo though? So the problem would be there only with mono recordings, and you can use only one speaker in these cases.
 

Thomas_A

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Aren't stereo recordings mastered & monitored in stereo though? So the problem would be there only with mono recordings, and you can use only one speaker in these cases.

You can argue both ways. Evaluations of speaker performance has been done mostly with a single mono speaker just because it is the most sensitive method. All current evidence points that a perfecly linear on-axis response is preferrred. Putting the same perfecly linear speakers in a stereo setup will lead to a timbral change. So what then is the perfect stereo speaker? It cannot be both.
The solution is a centre speaker to replace the center phamtom image. In the opposite case, should the center speaker deviate from the left and right ones? So for those who use without a center speaker, I would say it is a matter of choice. I prefer a slight deviation from linear. Speaker with lower energy 1-2 kHz vs 2-5 kHz tend to sound a bit bright and somewhat unpleasant.
 

daftcombo

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You can argue both ways. Evaluations of speaker performance has been done mostly with a single mono speaker just because it is the most sensitive method. All current evidence points that a perfecly linear on-axis response is preferrred. Putting the same perfecly linear speakers in a stereo setup will lead to a timbral change. So what then is the perfect stereo speaker? It cannot be both.
The solution is a centre speaker to replace the center phamtom image. In the opposite case, should the center speaker deviate from the left and right ones? So for those who use without a center speaker, I would say it is a matter of choice. I prefer a slight deviation from linear. Speaker with lower energy 1-2 kHz vs 2-5 kHz tend to sound a bit bright and somewhat unpleasant.
Which speakers corresponding to those cases did you audition?

Also, can't you EQ a stereo system made of flat speakers based on the graph (e) I posted upper and see if you prefer it that way?
 
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Thomas_A

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Which speakers corresponding to those cases did you audition?

Also, can't you EQ a stereo system made of flat speakers based on the graph (e) I posted upper and see if you prefer it that way?

I have been testing this for more than 15 years in my DIY design so I have settled for a slight compensation Note that any compensation is in the range of maximum +/- 1,5 dB or so. Not more.
 

Thomas_A

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Which speakers corresponding to those cases did you audition?

Also, can't you EQ a stereo system made of flat speakers based on the graph (e) I posted upper and see if you prefer it that way?

Personally I think it would be more interesting to hear what others think about this, in a subjective listening test, than just me. I.e. EQ of speakers, in stereo setup +/- 30°, that mimic the on-axis response as measured by Shirley et al vs the inverted response of that, within +/- 1,5 dB. In a second test one could test the inverted response vs a linear response.
 

daftcombo

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Personally I think it would be more interesting to hear what others think about this, in a subjective listening test, than just me. I.e. EQ of speakers, in stereo setup +/- 30°, that mimic the on-axis response as measured by Shirley et al vs the inverted response of that, within +/- 1,5 dB. In a second test one could test the inverted response vs a linear response.
This is a very good idea. If some of the EqualizerAPO pros out here can do a little file, otherwise one can do one in RePhase.
 

Thomas_A

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This is a very good idea. If some of the EqualizerAPO pros out here can do a little file, otherwise one can do one in RePhase.

With respect to 8050B vs the Revel 106, one could imagine that there is a slight compensation built on of the Revel. Whether it is on purpose or no - I would not make any guess of that.

M106 vs 8050B.png
 

daftcombo

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Something like this in Rephase.

1614026016124.png


Everybody can try with his/her speakers at home!
 

Thomas_A

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Something like this in Rephase.

View attachment 114240

Everybody can try with his/her speakers at home!

One note is however that the position of the dips/peaks depends on the angle of speakers, and also that the above EQ is based on the speakers being totally flat on-axis. So one need to adjust accordingly. In addition there are some other factors to consider in the "fill-in" of the dip peaking at 1,8 kHz for 30° angles. It will mainly be filled in using reflections. Heavy toe-in may or may not be a solution, depending on the speaker design.
 

Takanaka

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I don't think the 8050b has a DSP performing digital crossover. AFAIK it has an analog crossover.

I wonder about the dip between 1.5 and 2 kHz and the deep bass trouble.

I think investing some $400 more for a KH310a gives you a better speaker without the (relatively minor) flaws of the 8050b. In the EU the price difference is only €200 so choosing the Neumann seems to be a no brainer.
Little off-topic but where did you see the 8050b and KH310A with a price difference of €200? I looked them up at Thomann and the 8050b is €1399 a piece and the KH310 €1699 which is a €600 difference for a pair.
 
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daftcombo

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One note is however that the position of the dips/peaks depends on the angle of speakers, and also that the above EQ is based on the speakers being totally flat on-axis. So one need to adjust accordingly. In addition there are some other factors to consider in the "fill-in" of the dip peaking at 1,8 kHz for 30° angles. It will mainly be filled in using reflections. Heavy toe-in may or may not be a solution, depending on the speaker design.
I've tried the EQ I made with Rephase on my Aria 906, which are placed with me forming an equilateral triangle. It is pretty good!
 

Thomas_A

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I've tried the EQ I made with Rephase on my Aria 906, which are placed with me forming an equilateral triangle. It is pretty good!

Ok Just a note from me though. The Focal Aria 906 frequency response seems already to have some deviations that are similar to a correction, according to Amirs measurements. It can be too much if you add upon what the speaker already has. What would be interesting is if you would do a correction so that the response is opposite of the speakers output. It would mean decreasing the response by 2 dB at 1-2 kHz and boosting by 4-5 dB at 3-4 kHz and 7-8 kHz. Listen to soprano voices.
 

daftcombo

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Ok Just a note from me though. The Focal Aria 906 frequency response seems already to have some deviations that are similar to a correction, according to Amirs measurements. It can be too much if you add upon what the speaker already has. What would be interesting is if you would do a correction so that the response is opposite of the speakers output. It would mean decreasing the response by 2 dB at 1-2 kHz and boosting by 4-5 dB at 3-4 kHz and 7-8 kHz. Listen to soprano voices.
It is difficult because Aria 906 directivity is not perfect. I can try it of course.
 

LTig

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Little off-topic but where did you see the 8050b and KH310A with a price difference of €200? I looked them up at Thomann and the 8050b is €1399 a piece and the KH310 €1699 which is a €600 difference for a pair.
I also looked at Thomann and then the price difference was €200 per speaker.
 
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