Genelec 8030C Studio Monitor Review

[Xyrium]

Is Genelec consistently good across their product range like Revel or Focal speakers? It does seem like they do pay attention to details.

I'm sure every brand has a dog in their lineup. Designers change, supply chain changes, etc. However, the three you mention appear to be well respected in this little community, thus far.

It all depends on what your focus is. For some, vertical dispersion is the cat's meow, for others, especially with low ceilings, it may even be considered a burden. Just using this as an example,but you get the point. Pick which aspects of the performance matter to you the most, and take the ratings with that precise grain of salt in mind.

 

[Ilkless]

Is Genelec consistently good across their product range like Revel or Focal speakers? It does seem like they do pay attention to details.

The 8040 has lumpier directivity than the 8030 and 8050. Still good but not great based on their specs. I personally found it a bit upper mid forward vs competition in the price range, like the HEDD Type 07, which was slightly recessed in that same range.

 

[JustIntonation]

Reading this review was an emotional experience for me… my main system has been running Genelec 8030As for almost 10 years! Glad to see another confirmation that I made the right choice.

I have added the Genelec 8030C to Loudspeaker Explorer where it can be compared to other speakers.

This speaker shows surprising instability within the listening window at 3 kHz, especially in the vertical direction. Keep these speakers at ear height! The rest of the spectrum is impeccable though:

View attachment 74215



That might explain the issues around 3 kHz - as shown above, the speaker seems to be very sensitive to positioning in that region. It's not hard to imagine that even a slight offset could have flattened that curve (or make it worse). However I agree that no user should be expected to be this precise (especially for a nearfield speaker), so it's fair to judge the speaker on these terms.

(By the way, thank you @amirm for taking reference axis considerations into account when measuring this speaker! It made quite a difference in this case. Much appreciated.)

It seems to me this speaker may have a Butterworth crossover instead of the more common Linkwitz-Riley crossover?
It would mean the on-axis is indeed at a little bit lower angle than used in the measurements.
A Butterworth crossover is more unstable at the on-axis than a Linkwitz-Riley. It has both a peak of +3dB and a notch off-axis and the total power response is flat.

 

[q3cpma]

Is Genelec consistently good across their product range like Revel or Focal speakers? It does seem like they do pay attention to details.

I would say yes, though some models aren't as perfect as the rest:
* The 8351A was a beta testing speaker, with a very hard SPL/distorsion limitation in the bass.
* The 1237/8A show Genelec resting on their laurels compared to Neumann's KH420A, I'd like them to wake up.
* The 8040 and 8050 need an update, they could be much better.

But yes, Genelec is one of the brands with very high attention to detail and QC. Revel not being built in the "first world" wouldn't make me put them on the same level, even if the designs are very good.
What Genelec has that Revel/Focal can't ever get due to their audience, though, is that they can and do make appearance a second citizen in their product design, with reliability and sound quality being first and second, I'd say.

 

[Ilkless]

I would say yes, though some models aren't as perfect as the rest:
* The 8351A was a beta testing speaker, with a very hard SPL/distorsion limitation in the bass.
* The 1237/8A show Genelec resting on their laurels compared to Neumann's KH420A, I'd like them to wake up.
* The 8040 and 8050 need an update, they could be much better.

But yes, Genelec is one of the brands with very high attention to detail and QC. Revel not being built in the "first world" wouldn't make me put them on the same level, even if the designs are very good.
What Genelec has that Revel/Focal can't ever get due to their audience, though, is that they can and do make appearance a second citizen in their product design, with reliability and sound quality being first and second, I'd say.

8040 has elevated upper mids to a greater degree than 8050 or 8030. It definitely sounded thin to me vs the 8030 at the with vocal content.

 

[TimVG]

The 83×0 series on the other hand seem to be very well executed across the entire range. Benefits of DSP.

 

[q3cpma]

8040 has elevated upper mids to a greater degree than 8050 or 8030. It definitely sounded thin to me vs the 8030 at the with vocal content.

Looks similar to the 8030 on that graph, to be honest. But even then, we're not in "botched" territory.

 

[Ilkless]

Looks similar to the 8030 on that graph, to be honest. But even then, we're not in "botched" territory.

300Hz-1.5kHz look to be rising a tad more, the 8030 rise looks very gentle in comparison. It's 1 to 2 dB depending on your reference, so much better than most speakers already, but still within audibility.

 

[YSC]

One question to guys here, on various web sites they keep saying that Genelecs are too "forgiving" and make mixing sounds good before the final bit of editing was made, so that after mixing was done on the Genelec and you play them back on other more casual speakers in cars or other low budget speakers they will sound wrong. Any insite on why is this?

 

[TimVG]

One question to guys here, on various web sites they keep saying that Genelecs are too "forgiving" and make mixing sounds good before the final bit of editing was made, so that after mixing was done on the Genelec and you play them back on other more casual speakers in cars or other low budget speakers they will sound wrong. Any insite on why is this?

Placement and calibration aside, it could be because obviously they are simply better designed and executed than many other loudspeakers (monitors) out there. Therefore it is logical recordings in general will sound better through them.

 

[temps]

One question to guys here, on various web sites they keep saying that Genelecs are too "forgiving" and make mixing sounds good before the final bit of editing was made, so that after mixing was done on the Genelec and you play them back on other more casual speakers in cars or other low budget speakers they will sound wrong. Any insite on why is this?

If you know your monitors really well, there shouldn't be anything such thing as "forgiving." If you are coming into the final edits, your mix already should be sounding good. Translation difficulties would probably be caused by the room, not the speaker. The "car test" is because cars tend to be a lot flatter <300hz because so much sound leaks out, they don't have the same issues with room modes and nulls. BUT...

Listening to music on the 8030 is enjoyable, maybe more than you'd want from a studio monitor, but the Neumanns (KH 120 & 80) were even more enjoyable. The most uninteresting (and maybe therefore the most honest?) was the Dynaudio LYD-5 which wasn't even on my radar until I went to the store.

I don't understand why four monitors that are all ruler-flat on axis with very well behaved directivity, etc. sounded so different. We checked and re-checked the rear panel switches to make sure they were all flat. Distortion measurements might be more important than I thought they were... for instance, the Neumanns sounded quite a bit warmer, which would suggest some more harmonic content than the 8030, which had more than the LYD-5.

I fully expected to come home with a pair of 8030s yesterday but was totally flummoxed by what I heard.

 

[YSC]

If you know your monitors really well, there shouldn't be anything such thing as "forgiving." If you are coming into the final edits, your mix already should be sounding good. Translation difficulties would probably be caused by the room, not the speaker. The "car test" is because cars tend to be a lot flatter <300hz because so much sound leaks out, they don't have the same issues with room modes and nulls. BUT...

Listening to music on the 8030 is enjoyable, maybe more than you'd want from a studio monitor, but the Neumanns (KH 120 & 80) were even more enjoyable. The most uninteresting (and maybe therefore the most honest?) was the Dynaudio LYD-5 which wasn't even on my radar until I went to the store.

I don't understand why four monitors that are all ruler-flat on axis with very well behaved directivity, etc. sounded so different. We checked and re-checked the rear panel switches to make sure they were all flat. Distortion measurements might be more important than I thought they were... for instance, the Neumanns sounded quite a bit warmer, which would suggest some more harmonic content than the 8030, which had more than the LYD-5.

I fully expected to come home with a pair of 8030s yesterday but was totally flummoxed by what I heard.

So you finally bought the LYD-5? Does it sound more right to you as in honest reproduction? I asked because I saw ppl recommending Adam A7X over the 8030 and 8040s saying they are better suited for mixing and have better bass definition, which I doubt after seeing this measurement with ruler flat Genelec

 

[Frank Dernie]

I don't understand why four monitors that are all ruler-flat on axis with very well behaved directivity, etc. sounded so different. We checked and re-checked the rear panel switches to make sure they were all flat. Distortion measurements might be more important than I thought they were... for instance, the Neumanns sounded quite a bit warmer, which would suggest some more harmonic content than the 8030

Since distortion products are all higher frequency than the fundamental(s) surely one would expect the speaker with higher distortion to be brighter?
I know people go on about distortion adding warmth but I think this is only the case with valve amp output transformers which have a lot of bass distortion which adds to the mid. Normally audible harmonic distortion brightens the sound.

 

[temps]

So you finally bought the LYD-5? Does it sound more right to you as in honest reproduction? I asked because I saw ppl recommending Adam A7X over the 8030 and 8040s saying they are better suited for mixing and have better bass definition, which I doubt after seeing this measurement with ruler flat Genelec

I'm actually upgrading from Adams. The A7X is a great speaker but it hasn't been updated in forever. All of these other companies introduced their speakers to get a piece of that market and I think all of them do it better, except for the 8040, which hasn't been updated in quite a while either... buuut I didn't get anything. I'll have to try them in my space before I can decide, but they won't let me go nuts and take all of them home so I have to narrow it down to two pairs... and I can't make up my mind yet. They were all so good.

Since distortion products are all higher frequency than the fundamental(s) surely one would expect the speaker with higher distortion to be brighter?
I know people go on about distortion adding warmth but I think this is only the case with valve amp output transformers which have a lot of bass distortion which adds to the mid. Normally audible harmonic distortion brightens the sound.

I'm just trying to find an explanation. The bass on both the Neumanns really stuck out. There is a chance the room was giving them a boost, but none of the other brands in the room got it. Neumann's own charts do show a fair amount of 2nd harmonic distortion in the low bass..

 

[ctrl]

I don't understand why four monitors that are all ruler-flat on axis with very well behaved directivity, etc. sounded so different. We checked and re-checked the rear panel switches to make sure they were all flat. Distortion measurements might be more important than I thought they were...

Because the radiation of the loudspeakers mentioned above is completely different on closer inspection.

Even when comparing Genelec 8030 and KH80, the differences in horizontal radiation are immediately obvious on closer inspection.

Genelec 8030C vs. Neumann KH80

The measurements published for the Dynaudio LYD5 are something else entirely.
According to the specification, the crossover frequency is 5.2kHz! So it's something like a full range + tweeter. In order to prevent the radiation from becoming too erratic, rather flat filters should be used.
UPDATE: But perhaps the radiation of the full range driver and tweeter in this area fits in quite well and it can be separated with steeper filters - it's in any case an unusual design, even more extreme than B&W.

Nevertheless it leads to a wide radiation in the range 2-3.5kHz.
This should make the LYD5 sound much more "aggressive" than the other speakers.

The differences in sound can therefore be completely explained by the differences in radiation. You don't even have to say the word "distortion"

 

[temps]

The differences in sound can therefore be completely explained by the differences in radiation. You don't even have to say the word "distortion"

I don't think so... the KH 120's dispersion has more in common with the 8030 than the 80, but tonally the 120 and 80 are clearly related. The measurement they have in common is a lot more distortion in the bass.

There was practically no difference >200hz with any of the monitors. The ones that sounded really different in the treble were the Focal Shapes (extremely smooth) and the Adam (had some sizzle). The songs I picked specifically to workout the low end are where the differences cropped up. Using harmonics to make the low end of a speaker sound thicker and fuller is common with mixing these days, and the 80 and 120 remind me of that sound. I didn't bring my SPL monitor so it's entirely possible that I auditioned everything too loud and exaggerated this effect so I'll bring it along next time.

Dynaudio uses a different type of voice coil that lets their woofer play that high. The theory is that moves the crossover and its distortion out of the range where we are most sensitive to it. The bigger the woofer, the lower the crossover goes, so I found the LYD-5 sounded the best of all of them. The LYD-8 was nothing special in comparison but I didn't like any of the bigger monitors there. The 8040 was really disappointing.

I think it'll be down to the 8030 and the LYD-5 for the in home demo.

 

[q3cpma]

Dynaudio uses a different type of voice coil that lets their woofer play that high. The theory is that moves the crossover and its distortion out of the range where we are most sensitive to it. The bigger the woofer, the lower the crossover goes, so I found the LYD-5 sounded the best of all of them. The LYD-8 was nothing special in comparison but I didn't like any of the bigger monitors there. The 8040 was really disappointing.

I think it'll be down to the 8030 and the LYD-5 for the in home demo.

The problem should be directivity matching, not distorsion. I've made some posts about the LYD:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...best-objective-performance.14262/#post-437266
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tors-advice-recommendation.14433/#post-443994

Personally, I'd consider the LYD 5, but I don't think it can be as good as the 8030C, especially since it doesn't have the basically perfect waveguide nor the high tech cabinet. Having a DSP crossover, on the other hand, is quite cool at this price point. And I think the LYD serie looks amazing, too; there's something magnetic to its look.
I'd rather see some exhaustive 3rd party measurements, though, as such a high crossover frequency is worrying for THD, IMD and dispersion.

Are you in the US? Could be a cool toy for our host to measure.

 

[test1223]

Hello,

@Ilkless you have to have a look at more than these single frequency responses to get a feeling how it will sound. The DI is much more important and a few measurements with slightly different angles around the listening position tell the true story of the direct sound. With this single 0° measurement you can't see much. The DI and an average frequency response over the listening position give you a lot of information (guess what ist included in the spinorama ). Without these it is pure speculation...

@ctrl The same ist true by having a look at a single slice of the sphere of the directivity. You can often see a discrepancy of the DI and one slice of the sphere...
I totally agree that nonlinear distortion is not the cause of the differences in sound. As I told earlier in some post you can capture the signature of any speaker by using a smyth realiser and headphones. The "magic" of the sound of every speaker is described in its linear behavior.

Best
Thomas

 

[ctrl]

Listening to music on the 8030 is enjoyable, maybe more than you'd want from a studio monitor, but the Neumanns (KH 120 & 80) were even more enjoyable.

There was practically no difference >200hz with any of the monitors.

For me there is a certain contradiction, but perhaps I have misinterpreted the first statement.

However, the second statement can be easily verified. Set a steep low-pass at 200Hz on your test songs and copy them to a stick. If your second statement is correct, the speakers should now be easy to distinguish.

 

[kezman]

Very good job dude Amirm! Next month i will buy new monitors speakers, and i am between genelec 8030c or dynaudio lyd7.