Because drivers don't matter as much as integration. As long as they're reasonably decent, they will work fine.How is it that the Genelecs sound so good with relatively not such expensive drivers?
Because drivers don't matter as much as integration. As long as they're reasonably decent, they will work fine.How is it that the Genelecs sound so good with relatively not such expensive drivers?
I see. I am interested in which equalized speakers + subwoofer perform best at a distance of 1.74 meters in a well-treated room.Not technically.
The computed score numbers have rather limited use and accuracy.
There are definitely better speakers than the 8030C, even if you offload bass to an external Amp.
It's still a damn good speaker though.
There are so many technically superior speakers from Genelec, Neumann, KEF, Kii, D&D, Asci, JBL, ...I am interested in. Which equalized speakers+ sub are better at a range of 1.74 meters on a well treated room
By frequency response and spinorama Neumann 120 KH II is better, as I remember.Its the best speaker eqed with sub you can ask right? According to spinorama
But in which areas does it make them superior? Because at least, in principle, in on-axis + off-axis, it doesn't, right?There are so many technically superior speakers from Genelec, Neumann, KEF, Kii, D&D, Asci, JBL, ...
For the price though, the 8030C is hard to beat.
As I mentioned Neumann KH 120 II is superior by similar driver size and not so far on the price range.I see. I am interested in which equalized speakers + subwoofer perform best at a distance of 1.74 meters in a well-treated room.
How is it that the Genelecs sound so good with relatively not such expensive drivers?
Being a traditional 2-way design with analog crossover, there are areas like vertical directivity, on-axis linearity, and THD where more expensive monitors can best the 8030C.But in which areas does it make them superior? Because at least, in principle, in on-axis + off-axis, it doesn't, right?
8030c equalized + sub is 9. Neumann 8.8. But there is margin for errorBy frequency response and spinorama Neumann 120 KH II is better, as I remember.
I had both at home some months ago, is surprising how different two speakers could sound in a room showing a lot of similarities on measurements.
Can probably be due to my lack of knowledge about spinorama though. Perhaps they aren’t as similar as I think…
I see, in fact I prefer Genelec on the plus 100 Hz range than Neumann.8030c equalized + sub is 9. Neumann 8.8. But there is margin for error
Concluding from that that the 8030c is superior is misguided, for the reasons stated above.8030c equalized + sub is 9. Neumann 8.8. But there is margin for error
Preferences scores are average from members opinions or they are technical numbers?Concluding from that that the 8030c is superior is misguided, for the reasons stated above.
Use the preference scores as a rough guideline for overall speaker quality (maybe ±1-2 PR accuracy), nothing more.
For actual quality, you'll have to look into the individual measurements.
Yeah what mean isIt's been posted here many times before that the "not expensive drivers" idea is not necessarily the case, or at least the drivers appear to be good quality, with large magnets and so on. As for the rest, as noted many times before as well, R&D, relying on the science, the cast aluminum enclosures, and solid design approaches like making coaxials three-way so the midbass driver doesn't have to go too low (which can create vibrations that can mess with the waveguide behavior of the midbass driver on the treble driver), and like having treble waveguides for their two-way non-coaxialss like the 8030C's, so as to produce smooth directivity across the crossover region.
I'm specifically talking about computed preference scores based on research by Sean Olive and Todd Welti (so is @Deluxillo, I think).Preferences scores are average from members opinions or they are technical numbers?
Other brands do. Neumann, D&D, Kii all use relatively cheap drivers (well, mostly).Yeah what mean is
If Genelec can do it and sound so good with not such expensive drivers, why can't other brands do it with even more expensive drivers, cabinets?
Why don't all brands rely on science and sound as good as Genelec?
But I see that the vertical directivity is included in the spinorama measurements. That should affect the in-room response. Is it possible that the measurements are made in a single point and if you change your position a little you lose more coherence, than another with lower score but better response in more zones? If so, why don't they measure using the MMM method?Being a traditional 2-way design with analog crossover, there are areas like vertical directivity, on-axis linearity, and THD where more expensive monitors can best the 8030C.
Amir's vertical directivity measurement was created using 1000+ individual measurements taken 360° all around the speaker.But I see that the vertical directivity is included in the spinorama measurements.
Is it possible that the measurements are made in a single point
I figured the problem wouldn’t be in their measurements hahaAmir's vertical directivity measurement was created using 1000+ individual measurements taken 360° all around the speaker.
All automated using Klippel's $100K "Nearfield Scanner" measurement rig.
I’m reading the original article of Olive about a mathematical model predicting preferences from anechoic measurements, and vertical directivity is not included on the model.I figured the problem wouldn’t be in their measurements haha
Then I don’t understand how measuring the vertical frequency results in such a high total score. There must be some concept I’m missing. Thank you very much for your explanations