Genelec 8010a vs 8020d as PC speakers?

[a4eaudio]

In any case, I do need nor want to persuade you: consider your points true, mine false, you won

I thought the faux argument had been won 10 posts ago?

 

[GaryMB]

After considerable research, I am planning on setting up a desktop audio system using Genelec 8020Ds paired with the new IK Multimedia iLoud Sub. I’m aware that the Genelec 80x0 monitors have very high gain at their default sensitivity setting (-6 dB) possibly resulting in relatively high self-noise (hiss) for at least some owners. And one contributor to this thread (Miguelon) has suggested elsewhere that reducing the sensitivity with the rear panel attenuator seems to change (degrade) the speaker’s tonality. These observations caused him to recommend the G Two/Three (which have 10 dB lower default gain) over the 8020D/8030C.

Comments? I’m particularly interested if something has changed for Miguelon since he made this recommendation as he now appears to own the 8010s, 8020s and 8030s rather than their G equivalents.

Thanks!

 

[dagfinn]

And one contributor to this thread (Miguelon) has suggested elsewhere that reducing the sensitivity with the rear panel attenuator seems to change (degrade) the speaker’s tonality.

He has no data but his ears to support this.

 

[GaryMB]

I know that and he does admit it. But he also suggested that a Genelec representative didn’t dispute it and recommended leaving the attenuator at its default setting.

Which is why I’m asking if his feelings have changed and also seeking independent opinions.

 

[Miguelón]

After considerable research, I am planning on setting up a desktop audio system using Genelec 8020Ds paired with the new IK Multimedia iLoud Sub. I’m aware that the Genelec 80x0 monitors have very high gain at their default sensitivity setting (-6 dB) possibly resulting in relatively high self-noise (hiss) for at least some owners. And one contributor to this thread (Miguelon) has suggested elsewhere that reducing the sensitivity with the rear panel attenuator seems to change (degrade) the speaker’s tonality. These observations caused him to recommend the G Two/Three (which have 10 dB lower default gain) over the 8020D/8030C.

Comments? I’m particularly interested if something has changed for Miguelon since he made this recommendation as he now appears to own the 8010s, 8020s and 8030s rather than their G equivalents.

Thanks!

Hello, I apologize by using indistinctly 8020D or G Two james...

I have 8010, G Two and G Threes, for precission.

Hiss is objectively lower in G Three than 8030C, also in G Two than 8020.

Take into account that G Two has not XLR input, so cannot use balanced signal.

If you have no need for balanced, I recommend you G Two with your sub, is less noisy.

Otherwise are totally equal in FR response, just the noise.

 

[Mort]

You won't hear a difference, tonality or hiss between the two. I can't hear 8040b's and G Fours - there is no difference by spec. Don't let a misguided post send you down a rabbit hole.

 

[Miguelón]

You won't hear a difference, tonality or hiss between the two. I can't hear 8040b's and G Fours - there is no difference by spec. Don't let a misguided post send you down a rabbit hole.

He can try by himself… in Europe both Finnish Design (Genelec dealer in Finland) and Thomann (80x0 series) offer 30 days trial period with full money back.

 

[Miguelón]

You won't hear a difference, tonality or hiss between the two. I can't hear 8040b's and G Fours - there is no difference by spec. Don't let a misguided post send you down a rabbit hole.

BTW, when I connect my G Threes by XLR it sounds like I remembered 8030C (G Three has both RCA and XLR inputs).

Do the differential amp (or other method to cancel interferences) carry any IMD or THD added to the original signal?

Our preferred best was WiiM => RCA => G Threes. Connecting WiiM => usb C => external DAC => XLR => G Three sounds different.

Not saying worse or better, but different. We have no ground loops or audible interference at home.

Just curiosity…

 

[Mort]

With some kindness, no one cares what you personally hear.

 

[GaryMB]

With some kindness, no one cares what you personally hear.

I actually do, which is why I solicited opinions based on actual experience. I also care about and appreciate your opinion which I find reassuring since the 8020D is easier for me to buy locally. The prices are essentially identical.

I suspect I won’t be bothered by hiss on the 8020 but if I am (and find that reducing the sensitivity degrades tonality) I shouldn’t have trouble returning them. I would much rather avoid that scenario if possible, however.

 

[Mort]

I actually do, which is why I solicited opinions based on actual experience. I also care about and appreciate your opinion which I find reassuring since the 8020D is easier for me to buy locally. The prices are essentially identical.

I suspect I won’t be bothered by hiss on the 8020 but if I am (and find that reducing the sensitivity degrades tonality) I shouldn’t have trouble returning them. I would much rather avoid that scenario if possible, however.

You shouldn't. That's the point.

 

[GaryMB]

You shouldn't. That's the point.

Thanks. I think I’m quite capable of deciding what I should or shouldn’t care about, given sufficient information to make that decision.

 

[Mort]

Thanks. I think I’m quite capable of deciding what I should or shouldn’t care about, given sufficient information to make that decision.

Welcome to ASR. Stick around.

 

[GaryMB]

Thanks. That’s my intention.

 

[Miguelón]

Thanks. That’s my intention.

Here you will find a lot of useful advices in many different aspects, they saved me a lot of money.

The relatively strong answers by @Mort were partially motivated by the fight against false beliefs and marketing that surrounds audiophile world.

My comment about subjective experience with 2 speakers with identical specs, and without any instrumental measurement is considered more to avoid.

As a disclaimer, I gave you a recommendation based in my subjective listening experience only because of your demand.

Objectively, apart from XLR input, the 10 dB more sensitivity and the gain knob of the 8020D, and grey color both speakers are equal (same amp, same cones, same enclosure).

As you mentioned, the XLR input can be a must to have later: better have it that not.

We have threads dedicated to express our skepticism or personal thoughts about measurements, or sharing subjective information.

In general, we should stay on the objective side in our comments to keep the orientation of the forum in the science and evidence based side.

 

[GaryMB]

All good. I’ve lurked here from time to time for years and pretty much know what this place is all about. I’m very much a numbers/data guy while realizing that other more subjective factors can also be important. You won’t hear a lot from me but I’ll try to keep my infrequent contributions useful and respectful.

 

[Miguelón]

All good. I’ve lurked here from time to time for years and pretty much know what this place is all about. I’m very much a numbers/data guy while realizing that other more subjective factors can also be important. You won’t hear a lot from me but I’ll try to keep my infrequent contributions useful and respectful.

By the way, have you considered the Neumann KH80 as a contender in your research?

Is possibly one of the best speakers on the 4 inch category.

Talking about numbers, is really good. Slightly bulkier than average of its category, but still feasible to a desktop setup.

 

[GaryMB]

I absolutely considered the KH 80. As you say, it measures exceptionally well, although it isn’t necessarily subjectively preferred over the 8020D in the comparisons I’ve read. Furthermore, the iLoud Sub that I am considering already does one A->D->A conversion in order to calibrate itself and the attached monitors, as well as implementing ARC room EQ for all three. My preference was to avoid another such conversion in the attached monitors, even if I almost certainly wouldn’t perceive any resulting degradation.

I also prefer the looks of the Genelec, although the KH 80 looks smaller and much better in person than in photos and its grey finish perfectly matches Genelec’s. The subjectively solid, acoustically dead aluminum enclosure of the Genelec is also impressive in comparison with the Neumann’s plastic case; I also like the Genelec’s integrated IsoPods. As I mentioned above, subjective details matter and can add greatly to one’s pride of ownership.

 

[iconoclast]

I have the 8010A + 7040A. Would not recommend without a sub, unless you need something portable for hotel rooms or something. The 7040A at current prices is a bit yikes. I feel this sub is only really useful for the 8010A too.
I also have the 8320APM + 7350A. Substantially better, even without GLM. Could be used without sub if you don't care much about bass, but it really is way better with.
Finally, I have the 8040B. I would say this can get away with not having a sub. Have not heard the 8x30, but judging by the 8040, I would very likely want a sub with them too.

 

[Miguelón]

I absolutely considered the KH 80. As you say, it measures exceptionally well, although it isn’t necessarily subjectively preferred over the 8020D in the comparisons I’ve read. Furthermore, the iLoud Sub that I am considering already does one A->D->A conversion in order to calibrate itself and the attached monitors, as well as implementing ARC room EQ for all three. My preference was to avoid another such conversion in the attached monitors, even if I almost certainly wouldn’t perceive any resulting degradation.

I also prefer the looks of the Genelec, although the KH 80 looks smaller and much better in person than in photos and its grey finish perfectly matches Genelec’s. The subjectivity solid, acoustically dead aluminum enclosure of the Genelec is also impressive in comparison with the Neumann’s plastic case; I also like the Genelec’s integrated IsoPods. As I mentioned above, subjective details matter and can add greatly to one’s pride of ownership.

I had the Neumann kh80 at home, it sounds very different to 8020D.

I finally got the G Two because it had better room response with less equalization than kh80 at home, and also less reflections from the desktop.

The 8020D has a quite smaller footprint, yes: it can be important if the space in the desktop matters.

I don’t know how much A-D and D-A redundant conversions are needed to be audible, but I prefer the lesser as possible, too…