Genelec 8010a vs 8020d as PC speakers?

[sheeple]

You did read that I considered the sub a prerequisite? How could a 3-inch woofer deliver sub bass, to begin with.

86 dB @ 1m equals 76 dB @ 3m, I rarely listen that loud . And 1.5 percent distortion between 150-450 Hz is not stellar, but certainly not horrible either.

Used with a sub and if compact size is a focus, I do not see why the 8010 should be omitted. The 8020 will suffer from the very same problem: woofer to small to reproduce sub bass. Compression was not measured in Amir's test by the way. I assume it is there, if you walk up the SPL scale, everything else would be surprising for the size of the woofer. The question is probably: how sensitive your aural apparatus still is. My C-weighted listening levels are usually mid 60s to 70s max. Most times lower. My ears are still in pretty good shape.

 

[AnalogSteph]

86 dB @ 1m equals 76 dB @ 3m, I rarely listen that loud .

Keep in mind that this is maybe 89 dB @ 1 m peak, so with a crest factor of 14-18 dB you might be looking at 71-75 dB @ 1 m average. Now you won't have a 10 dB drop between 1 m and 3 m, as we don't tend to listen in anechoic chambers - the rule of thumb is that levels per pair @ 2.5-3 m in-room more or less equal levels per speaker @ 1 m anechoic, so maybe a few dB less than that @ 3 m here.

The 8020 will suffer from the very same problem: woofer to small to reproduce sub bass.

But not to the same degree (in this size class, every half inch matters), which would make it easier to integrate. There will be a fair bit more subwoofer choice and flexibility in terms of placement when you're crossing over at 100-120 Hz vs. 150 Hz.

 

[sheeple]

Of course, a bigger speaker of the same build will come with less distortion. Thing is: OP said desk space is premium, mostly wants to listen from near field. People chimed in and suggested bigger options, very numerical performance focused. Fine, but practically those numbers might be bad advice because the 8010 is certainly capable to deliver great sound from close up. To illustrate its capabilities, I mentioned that I use them in the far field and apart from low/sub bass performance am very satisfied. I use them with the -6 dB switch enabled to make the amplifier hiss inaudible and play them st least 15 dB below the maximum SPL. Now, if you listen to symphonies and want the big bang dynamic explosions, get a proper, huge speaker. The small ones will not do it. If you listen to varieties of popular music, jazz, folk and the likes, they will do great with a sub. No big crest factor needed anyway. My basic advice is to first check your regular listening levels, that is: comfortable, long-term non fatiguing levels. Get YOUR number. Do YOUR math. Do not buy a speaker because of theoretical capabilities, but the ones YOU actually need.

 

[Mort]

Do not buy a speaker because of theoretical capabilities

or because some guy on the Internet told me to.

 

[Miguelón]

Of course, a bigger speaker of the same build will come with less distortion. Thing is: OP said desk space is premium, mostly wants to listen from near field. People chimed in and suggested bigger options, very numerical performance focused. Fine, but practically those numbers might be bad advice because the 8010 is certainly capable to deliver great sound from close up. To illustrate its capabilities, I mentioned that I use them in the far field and apart from low/sub bass performance am very satisfied. I use them with the -6 dB switch enabled to make the amplifier hiss inaudible and play them st least 15 dB below the maximum SPL. Now, if you listen to symphonies and want the big bang dynamic explosions, get a proper, huge speaker. The small ones will not do it. If you listen to varieties of popular music, jazz, folk and the likes, they will do great with a sub. No big crest factor needed anyway. My basic advice is to first check your regular listening levels, that is: comfortable, long-term non fatiguing levels. Get YOUR number. Do YOUR math. Do not buy a speaker because of theoretical capabilities, but the ones YOU actually need.

Of course, nobody doubts about each audiophile needs with respect to loudness.

Remember that in my comment I specified “to don’t confuse other potential buyers”.

This is a public forum of a review context, is statistically rare that other members could be satisfied with 8010 as main speakers apart from a bedroom or a desktop.

If your numbers agree and you’re happy with them, that’s the goal!



Personally I cannot live with a sub, once tried the first one. Is such a drug… one needs more and more…

The sub covering of 8010 at high volume is not easy, aim to 150 Hz and beyond, soundstage will be worse.

 

[a4eaudio]

..., is statistically rare that other members could be satisfied with 8010 as main speakers apart from a bedroom or a desktop....

I feel pretty confident that there are no statistics on ASR member's preference toward usage of Genelec 8010s in any context whatsoever.

 

[Miguelón]

I feel pretty confident that there are no statistics on ASR member's preference toward usage of Genelec 8010s in any context whatsoever.

I didn’t mentioned ASR statistics: the member with I discussed used 3 inch desktop near field monitors as main speakers, at 3 meters of listening distance.

In particular a model that shows strong harmonic distortion at reference levels (85 dB @ 1m) below 150 Hz.

An average user of desktop professional monitors will listen to them from 50 cm to 1 meter.

I suppose Genelec to did some statistical work when building his professional speakers to cover the 90 % or something like that when investing money for design and production process.

If you want to try them on your living room, and I have them, you will be rewarded by a huge amount of distortion. On a desktop they work fine.

I’m a little bit tired to answering absurd replica on evident facts that you can find in the current review, or in the Genelec website, so excuse me if I don’t continue the conversation.

Genelec 8010 are designed to be low SPL monitors, and if you want to force the usage of 3 inch cones as mains, better go to Adam D3V.

 

[sheeple]

at reference levels

While that might appear to be numerically correct, I insist the question remains: what are actual individual listening levels?

In my case, most of the time ca. 60 to 65 dB at the LP.

you will be rewarded by a huge amount of distortion.

Without a sub has to be added. This is equally the case for the 8020. They simply cannot deliver sub bass or even low bass with authority and precision, these are way too small speakers for the task. It just makes no sense at all to opt for the 8020 to solve the issue of bass reproduction.


Now, concerning this ...

or because some guy on the Internet told me to.

, but the ones YOU actually need.

... I can only:

I think all arguments are on the table and we do not need to run in circles, I stand with my advice. Enjoy your acquisition.

 

[Miguelón]

While that might appear to be numerically correct, I insist the question remains: what are actual individual listening levels?

In my case, most of the time ca. 60 to 65 dB at the LP.



Without a sub has to be added. This is equally the case for the 8020. They simply cannot deliver sub bass or even low bass with authority and precision, these are way too small speakers for the task. It just makes no sense at all to opt for the 8020 to solve the issue of bass reproduction.


Now, concerning this ...


... I can only:

I think all arguments are on the table and we do not need to run in circles, I stand with my advice. Enjoy your acquisition.

This are not arguments: all 80xx monitors are designed to be used with a sub, supposing the aim of a setup is to cover 20 to 20 kHz.

The issue of the 8010 is not the size or the cone: is the uncontrolled port distorsion.

8020 has not this issue, or it begins well over the average SPL of a reference monitor. So the 8030 does.

That was my argument to any user who wants to get a speaker out of the desk and use it for home: 8020 can do the job, 8010 will distort.

There are no circular arguments: your listening SPL is the one of a conversation. And the distortion of 8010 is not just slightly above of that of 8020, is way above.

You can easily verify both data.

 

[sheeple]

This are not arguments:

Maybe consider a more respectful tone. Because, while you might not agree to them, these are certainly arguments.

The issue of the 8010 is not the size or the cone: is the uncontrolled port distorsion.

At least use correct technical terms! The port resonance you are referring to is not distortion. It is output at a secondary frequency. While this might indicate it is not the cleanest design, it wont necessarily pose a problem, as it will simply contribute to the overall transfer function of the speaker. See the review of the JBL 708.

In any case, I do need nor want to persuade you: consider your points true, mine false, you won

 

[Miguelón]

In any case, I do need nor want to persuade you: consider your points true, mine false, you won

That’s not the point: not winning or losing discussions. The point is to don’t orient people to use to use 8010s as out of desktop monitors, unless they are beware about the severe limitations in SPL and free distortion range.

The conversation begun with the 8020D, which I advice much more as double function monitors (if needed and with a sub), because twice the power of the amp, a much better behavior in low end, and quite reduced in size.

Being recommended 8010 to near field pure desktop or in case of very low SPL preferences as in your case, which is more on the quiet side.

To me is not relevant personally, since I have 8010, 8020 and 8030, and can verify 8020 and 8030 to be much similar in performances (they have the same amplifier), the 8010 very well balanced in tonality but limited by the mentioned factors.

My personal preference is obviously 8030C, but is a little big to a desktop.

 

[sheeple]

Nuh, you are not listening.

I use the speakers at this level. Amir's test shows they play with 1.5 percent distortion <200 Hz at 85 dB @ 1m. 75 dB (<200 Hz) is a high level for the non-classical music spectrum, that does not work on huge dynamics, and all that is needed is a sub.

 

[EasyC]

My personal preference is obviously 8030C, but is a little big to a desktop.

My 8030C's are great on my desktop. 7050C under desk. It all depends on your desk I guess.

 

[Miguelón]

My 8030C's are great on my desktop. 7050C under desk. It all depends on your desk I guess.

I agree: I should change the desk, not the speaker

 

[Miguelón]

Nuh, you are not listening.

I use the speakers at this level. Amir's test shows they play with 1.5 percent distortion <200 Hz at 85 dB @ 1m. 75 dB (<200 Hz) is a high level for the non-classical music spectrum, that does not work on huge dynamics, and all that is needed is a sub.

The 1.5 % of THD goes from 150 to 200 Hz, not “below 200 Hz”. I expect you to know what intervals are. The <150 Hz distortion is unacceptable.

This means you will need a crossover at 150 Hz in the subwoofer.

And you continue to say “my listening levels”: there are other people in the world. With other listening levels.

it would be mice that Amir published THD graphic at 75 dB @ 1m unless 86 dB, what is very far from expected use of these speakers.

Here you have distortion of 8030C

Just in case you don’t know to interpret a THD graph, there are Amir comments in red in both speakers.

Unfortunately there are not THD graphics of 8020D, or I couldn’t find them.

I red your comments in their totality: all are based in the same point. Which is the following;

“To my listening levels the 8010 are valid to use at 3 meters”

You can think if this will be valid to other members looking the graphics of THD, asking listening levels. This include transients that will be 10 - 20 dB over average.

 

[sheeple]

You really cannot read. Or maybe you know how to recognize the words, but cannot understand

In your previous post, you had pointed out my very low listening levels. As you might remember, now that you re-read everything, in the 60s (above bass). I followed up with this post that I started with an acknowledgment of this fact. My listening levels are low. -> To follow on with a depiction of the SPL capabilities of the 8010 beyond my own usage.

The whole post of yours is shadowboxing.

The 1.5 % of THD goes from 150 to 200 Hz, not “below 200 Hz”. I expect you to know what intervals are. The <150 Hz distortion is unacceptable.

Indeed, it should have been 1.5 percent distortion >200 Hz. And I, again, disagree: this is okay, you will not notice as it is masked from the fundamental. Our perception of distortion in bass is very bad and we often take 1 percent as a threshold for inaudibility.

Transients of 20 dB are symphonies stuff. As you say you re-read everything, you will also know that I had suggested the lovers of symphonic music twice to get a big speaker instead. Such crest factors are unimportant for most recordings.

 

[Miguelón]

You really cannot read. Or maybe you know how to recognize the words, but cannot understand

In your previous post, you had pointed out my very low listening levels. As you might remember, now that you re-read everything, in the 60s (above bass). I followed up with this post that I started with an acknowledgment of this fact. My listening levels are low. -> To follow on with a depiction of the SPL capabilities of the 8010 beyond my own usage.

The whole post of yours is shadowboxing.



Indeed, it should have been 1.5 percent distortion >200 Hz. And I, again, disagree: this is okay, you will not notice as it is masked from the fundamental. Our perception of distortion in bass is very bad and we often take 1 percent as a threshold for inaudibility.

Transients of 20 dB are symphonies stuff. As you say you re-read everything, you will also know that I had suggested the lovers of symphonic music twice to get a big speaker instead. Such crest factors are unimportant for most recordings.

THD below 150 Hz is totally audible, It goes over 5 %

Your particular listening levels are not relevant except for you.

Even at 70-75 dB @ 1m you Will easy come into 85 dB with a non symphonic transient or just a forte passage.

You're defending an inusual setup just by your individual partícular restrictions to low SPL, accepted high distortion, limited repertoire.

Basically your listen elevator ambience music: ok, I agree with you.

For a 3 x 3 meter elevator, is a perfectly valid speaker.

 

[sheeple]

THD below 150 Hz is totally audible, It goes over 5 %

You cannot read, I am sorry, this is too stupid.

Below 200 Hz:

S-U-B-W-O-O-F-E-R

I am sorry for all the teachers who have to punch the content of a message into the brain of their pupils by senseless repetition. But now I know even adults (?) need it. Patience.

 

[Mort]

You two should take this private.

 

[Miguelón]

You cannot read, I am sorry, this is too stupid.

Below 200 Hz:

S-U-B-W-O-O-F-E-R

I am sorry for all the teachers who have to punch the content of a message into the brain of their pupils by senseless repetition. But now I know even adults (?) need it. Patience.

I understood, but is a bad solution. 200 Hz is too high to properly preserve soundstage and handle room modes with positioning. But it can be done, outside Genelec subs.

I apologize for my high intensity answers, audio discussions by message can turn quite hard.

Enjoy your speaker, that’s what matters only.