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Genelec 8010A Powered Studio Monitor Review
- Thread starter amirm
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It's normal, few people talk about it even though it's very important. You should know that the listener should never position themselves in the center of the room, across its entire length and width, because there's an audio "hole" or "dip" (due to reflections canceling each other out). These are the areas where the sound is weakest (in decibels) (with loss of audio information, etc.).Exactly what I was thinking lately! Very puzzling.
But when I sit next to my wall, the 8030C has too much bass. Whereas when I sit in the middle of the room, it sounds so tiny and dull! Perhaps it is a beginning of explaination...
It's also forbidden to position yourself less than 2-3 meters from the back wall, because the bass energy passing through the walls ends up in the back corners of the room. It's at the back of the room that you get that muddy or dirty bass; it's an area to avoid if possible. It's not for nothing that the back corners of a room are the areas where wideband bass traps should be installed (it's mandatory).
I've read your posts on the forum, and it's not right to judge a speaker based on poor speaker placement without knowing your room (layout), wall impedance, or even worse, if you have no acoustic treatment at all.
The advantage of the Genelec 8010 is that they barely reach into the infrasonic range, which is a good thing. They'll excite the left and right side walls much less, and they'll limit the damage caused by having too much sound absorption. Better yet, even without acoustic treatment, you'll perceive the direct sound better.
I owned the 8030C, which I sold , not because of its performance; it was superb. Regarding my analysis below, I acquired the 8010s, and they are just as superb as my old 8030s were in my 15 square meter room. The sound is cleaner; I listen from 1.7 meters away, and it's night and day. I really don't perceive any regression compared to the 8030s; they are more precise... because there's less bass, which is beneficial! Admittedly, they don't go as low, but to the ear, it's "wtf," you wouldn't have guessed, and the bass, even without acoustics, is cleaner considering its size in a small room.
Its small size (laws of physics) means that the volume level will be limited for listening in large rooms or when listening from a great distance. For office use, they are what I would recommend over the 8030s, for example, if you have a smaller budget.
For the bass, I plan to get a subwoofer soon. Any suggestions?
Listening without a subwoofer is possible with the Genlec 8010s in an office setting, and it's simply stunning. Before getting them, I sold some JBL 308MKIIs with their large drivers and heavy bass, which were too powerful for my room (which isn't yet acoustically treated). They were too muddy with the gravel, with too much sound coming from the left, right, front, and back walls, and the fact that there were two powerful speakers on either side. All of this is resolved with the Genlec 8010s. The sound is less aggressive, and the volume is perfect in a small office room. The speakers aren't placed directly on my desk (which is best avoided due to direct reflections off the desk edges). They're on tall stands in front of the desk and spaced about 1.8 meters apart. I'm 1.7 meters away from each of them.
Genelec 8010/8020/8030 => office use = good
The 8010 has the advantage in an untreated room (lower dB and limited bass => can be listened to without a subwoofer in a bare office environment), a subwoofer is a possibility for all (8010/8020/8030...) but requires a properly treated room in this case (mandatory).
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Miguelón
Major Contributor
This is bizarre… with a good equalization, you can compensate for the room modes that obviously bother you in around 50 - 70 Hz (otherwise it will covered by the 8010 and uncovered by the 8030).
Nothing particular happens with the size of the woofers, the lows disperse spherically and behave more as standing waves no matter the source.
The mid-highs and highs of the 8030C are even clearer than 8010, look at the spinorama, apart that I had all 8010, 8020 and 8030 in my room.
Are you measuring your room? Just a couple of modes corrected and the monitors will shine…
And of course, all music merits at least covering until 40 Hz, perhaps 30 but 40 is for sure!
It all depends on your room layout. The closer you are to the walls, the more bass you'll win level decibel (coloring). The speakers themselves should be close to the walls behind them with a panel no more than 10 cm thick to absorb SBIR (short, deep, inflected sound). The further the speakers are from the wall behind them, the more comb filtering (SBIR) will occur in the bass frequencies, requiring very thick panels. So, it's better to use a thin absorbent panel to correct the comb filtering in the treble; it's easier to correct while still maintaining a sense of space in the room.
By moving the speakers closer to the wall behind them, the bass will certainly be louder, but more evenly distributed (homogeneous). Bass can be easily corrected with wideband porous absorbers at the rear of the room.
Theoretically, the best placement for the listener is in the 38% range. Ideally, play white noise (in the peak of your infrasonic measurements) and move around the room with a subwoofer to find the perfect spot. You'll then be able to identify the different issues and characteristics of your room. All axes, length and width, have a deflection (drop). We have the acoustic dimension and the physical dimension in a room. The acoustic dimension isn't visible to the naked eye, but it can be detected by ear through testing, mainly related to the impedance of your walls.
And yes, most listeners only consider the icing on the cake, i.e., the equipment, when it's the final link in the chain. Worse still, they judge speakers under the worst conditions. In most cases, every room is different, with different characteristics, and I can say that the Genelec 8010 is a true all-rounder; it will suit 100% of rooms thanks to its dimensions. Even without a subwoofer, it does the job perfectly. Connected to a high-end RME ADI 2 DAC FS and cable XLR (SOMMER) speakers, I can tell you, they really deliver!
As a reminder, this is a near-field, desktop speaker, and its volume is more than sufficient for that purpose. for this purpose with a cabinet for office use. Not so much in the bass response in a treated room than 8030, but better in an untreated room. And with a subwoofer placed in the center of the room for optimal acoustics, it's definitely more suitable than an 8030 for desktop use (its smaller size will be less likely to affect the walls to the left and right).
I've covered everything now, so what do you think would be the best subwoofer for desktop use?
Thanks
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What about the 7040 subwoofers?
A subwoofer is essential for any speaker; it's the acoustics that should be your primary concern. The size of the speakers depends on your listening distance, that's all. For desktop use, smaller sizes are more suitable.
False, don't believe the hype… Equalization is only effective if the room is properly acoustically treated!
Yes, low frequencies from 120 Hz upwards are multidirectional and their wavelength gradually increases… 17 meters at 20 Hz. Equalization won't solve this problem; only acoustic treatment can address it. Unfortunately, in a small 20-square-meter room, it's impossible to completely eliminate infrasound (bass) problems; there's no magic bullet. However, you can mitigate or limit the damage with broadband bass traps placed in the corners (not panels, but large cushions of insulating fiberglass; so it's important to choose the right type of fiberglass). Equalization is the finishing touch to optimize the sound if, despite treatment, a slight problem persists.
Acoustic treatment is essential in a room. In a bare room, bass is inaudible, and this is even more true in small rooms.
Reading the comments of those who want large speakers only to end up hearing the sound in the walls is a bad investment. The Genelec 8010s are perfectly suited for office use. Even without acoustic treatment or equalization, the sound is pleasant in my home, with a volume perfectly optimized for my 15-square-meter room.
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staticV3
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How much are you willing to spend?
Any size constraints?
Which country are you located in?
Miguelón
Major Contributor
I don’t know that marketing you’re talking about… also I’m not saying at all the bigger the better.
8030C is perfectly suited for a room as yours, is a near field 5 inch monitor.
The variable you’re not talking is SPL. You probably listen music at very low volume and with the speakers on your desk. Which is the disposition ment by Genelec for 8010s.
I listen my 8030C in a similar room (around 5 meters per 4, but with some reflective semi-walls. Virtually is 5 x 3 meters). But they are placed on floor stands, and I listen from 2.5 meters. No carpets or curtains.
Is not simply a question of volume and cone surface. 8010 were totally insufficient for my room, having same dimensions than yours.
Miguelón
Major Contributor
Mine is very recommended to small rooms: Kali WS 6.2
Genelec 7040A was recommended here as it makes a good combo with 8010 and is also adequate to small rooms.
How is EQ marketing hype when it can be done entirely for free?
The 8010 in a small room minimizes bass reflections. (advantage)
To reach below 80Hz, a subwoofer is appropriate for all bookshelf and satellite speakers. This role is best suited to the subwoofer, provided the room is treated.
EQ is a good tool, but marketing uses it to make you believe you don't need to treat your room if you apply it, which is completely false.
A thorough room analysis, followed by measurements, and then acoustic treatment is essential.
The final element: the speaker ( EQ, is a bonus, but not a reflection killer.)
That's all I was saying, sorry if it didn't sit well with some people. That's cool, but it's essential to point this out in the comments because I saw that some people were asking questions I've already answered in my previous comments.
Many people want bass but forget that it's the number one enemy of good sound (in the room). The 8010s perform better than the 8030s in my untreated room due to their limited bass response in my naked room. They have less volume, but for office use, despite the limitations, I can hear the speakers' direct more clearly. Compared to the 8030s (which go deeper into the lower infrasonic range), I'm not saying they're inferior.
For my office use, I can do without the 8030, as it will make room treatment easier, and the volume should be better with the subwoofer. But don't forget: infrasonic (bass) frequencies require acoustic treatment; otherwise, you won't hear the speaker. EQ alone won't stop reflections and other problems.
I think I've covered the basics. The equipment is of little importance if the room isn't properly treated, especially in the bass range. Early reflections also need to be addressed. There's no point in giving feedback on equipment if the listening environment isn't optimal.
This could influence the internet users who read your posts and cause them to miss out on a good speaker.
My room: (L) 4.5m; (W) 3.2m; (H) 3.5m ("V" roof)
Finding the optimal listening position requires a study in our room with REW speakers; be wary of marketing hype, we don't do things blindly.
However, the manufacturer's speaker placement recommendations should be followed; Genelec's instructions are reliable. They won't tell you everything, like the listener's placement. Positioning yourself along the length and width is bad (large dips; these areas contain the greatest energy loss... it's the "invisible" acoustic dimension, a law of physics, try it ^^). The acoustic dimensions make your room appear larger (virtually) due to the impedance of your walls. Bass frequencies easily penetrate walls with low impedance, which enlarges your room... which shifts your center of gravity. There are quite a few things to consider. The best way is to test with REW and move around the room with your subwoofer in the corner to locate the lowest bass frequency using a generator. This will allow you to distinguish the "dips/holes" in your room and find the optimal placement of your listening position, generally in the 38% range. However, you should avoid the acoustic center where there are dips (invisible to the ear). High energy = placement to avoid. Between full energy (dB) and below = good placement.
You might be slightly off-center in terms of physical dimensions, but that's how it is. (You might have one speaker closer to one side wall than the other... this can be corrected with acoustic treatment; you'll see the difference sound.)
(This is used in studios and movie theaters. It requires more study in large spaces; it's not easy.)
To reach below 80Hz, a subwoofer is appropriate for all bookshelf and satellite speakers. This role is best suited to the subwoofer, provided the room is treated.
EQ is a good tool, but marketing uses it to make you believe you don't need to treat your room if you apply it, which is completely false.
A thorough room analysis, followed by measurements, and then acoustic treatment is essential.
The final element: the speaker ( EQ, is a bonus, but not a reflection killer.)
That's all I was saying, sorry if it didn't sit well with some people. That's cool, but it's essential to point this out in the comments because I saw that some people were asking questions I've already answered in my previous comments.
Many people want bass but forget that it's the number one enemy of good sound (in the room). The 8010s perform better than the 8030s in my untreated room due to their limited bass response in my naked room. They have less volume, but for office use, despite the limitations, I can hear the speakers' direct more clearly. Compared to the 8030s (which go deeper into the lower infrasonic range), I'm not saying they're inferior.
For my office use, I can do without the 8030, as it will make room treatment easier, and the volume should be better with the subwoofer. But don't forget: infrasonic (bass) frequencies require acoustic treatment; otherwise, you won't hear the speaker. EQ alone won't stop reflections and other problems.
I think I've covered the basics. The equipment is of little importance if the room isn't properly treated, especially in the bass range. Early reflections also need to be addressed. There's no point in giving feedback on equipment if the listening environment isn't optimal.
This could influence the internet users who read your posts and cause them to miss out on a good speaker.
My room: (L) 4.5m; (W) 3.2m; (H) 3.5m ("V" roof)
Finding the optimal listening position requires a study in our room with REW speakers; be wary of marketing hype, we don't do things blindly.
However, the manufacturer's speaker placement recommendations should be followed; Genelec's instructions are reliable. They won't tell you everything, like the listener's placement. Positioning yourself along the length and width is bad (large dips; these areas contain the greatest energy loss... it's the "invisible" acoustic dimension, a law of physics, try it ^^). The acoustic dimensions make your room appear larger (virtually) due to the impedance of your walls. Bass frequencies easily penetrate walls with low impedance, which enlarges your room... which shifts your center of gravity. There are quite a few things to consider. The best way is to test with REW and move around the room with your subwoofer in the corner to locate the lowest bass frequency using a generator. This will allow you to distinguish the "dips/holes" in your room and find the optimal placement of your listening position, generally in the 38% range. However, you should avoid the acoustic center where there are dips (invisible to the ear). High energy = placement to avoid. Between full energy (dB) and below = good placement.
You might be slightly off-center in terms of physical dimensions, but that's how it is. (You might have one speaker closer to one side wall than the other... this can be corrected with acoustic treatment; you'll see the difference sound.)
(This is used in studios and movie theaters. It requires more study in large spaces; it's not easy.)
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Thanks
I understand that if it's for distant use, the 8030 would be more suitable.
The closer you are to the speaker, the smaller its size should be.
The 8030 is also good for office use, but the 8010 in this configuration is also good. (I owned the 8030, which seriously requires acoustic treatment. They have bass = reflection => problem. The 8010 too, but it's cleaner in a bare room, to sum it up.)
Verdict: Treat the bass in your rooms, especially in the rear corners, with Porous absorber fiberglass insulation (do your research). Once that's done, get a subwoofer and address any early reflections.
Don't forget the speaker and listener placement described above. With REW and a subwoofer, you'll be all set to fully enjoy your speakers,
Verdict: Treat the bass in your rooms, especially in the rear corners, with suitable (thick) fiberglass insulation (do your research). Once that's done, get a subwoofer and address any early reflections.
Don't forget the speaker and listener placement described above. With REW and a subwoofer
(Or you can ignore all of this and continue to believe you're just listening to your speakers and giving false opinions ^^ good luck)
(Speakers wolrd isn't all sunshine and rainbows! )
Neutral speakers are no longer neutral in an untreated room. His request for investment
Headphones or earphones solve all these problems .. but limited
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Miguelón
Major Contributor
Your post seems containing more marketing than the mentioned “marketing hype”.
Most of us we have our setups in places where we cannot treat acoustically, other than a few carpets. I have 2 exploration foldable tables in the corners of my office, for example.
Acoustic treatment is also limited, as you mentioned 20 - 30 Hz have wavelengths on the order of 1.5 - 2 meters. Even 60 Hz requires very thick treatment to be absorbed.
We don’t have to need a perfectly isolated room, or reducing the range of the spectrum we listen (in general).
My setup sounds “enough good for my budget and physical possibilities of my room”. That’s all I can do actually.
In the future, if I move to a bigger place and have more freedom in decoration, I will install panels to main reflections (around 600 - 700 Hz, 300 Hz in my actual room), some bass traps on the corners and a celling panel also.
For instance, I enjoy a lot !
Wavelength incorrect
20hz = ~17.1 meters
30hz =. ~11.4 meters
60hz = ~5.7 meters
Bass absorption needs to be very thick for lower frequencies to be effective. Most bass traps not effective at lower bass frequencies.
Oops, I made an accidental mistake, thanks to Ellebob for correcting me.
(I'm using Google Translate, it's annoying. There are things I miss, and I've also modified the Chrome translation.)
For example, a wavelength of 17m is enormous (20Hz).
Imagine the damage in a small room. We can improve it, but not solve it 100%.
The reason I emphasized is that a subwoofer in a room is devastating, especially in small rooms... it requires serious acoustic treatment, and done properly.
Understand why the Genelec 8010 already sounds superb in an untreated room, and it goes quite low in the bass for its size, though its volume is limited if the bass of the track goes very low. But in many genres, you can push the volume a bit; in any case, it performs well at a moderate volume (60/70%).
In all genres... don't forget that stereophony isn't about the deep bass (frequency) but high & medium frequency ; that's just the icing on the cake. You can perfectly enjoy a track at 80Hz at the lowest frequency with an 80Hz limit on your speakers. The 8010 offers more (74Hz). => For office use, it's good; add a subwoofer for this purpose (treat your room's bass frequencies and you'll be good).
Don't worry about the equipment if your environment isn't optimized. With the Genelec 8010, however, you can minimize the damage due to its size. You can get some use out of it in a small, untreated office room compared to other, larger (in size) and bass-heavy monitoring speakers... (you won't get as much benefit from it as with a Genelec 8010 in a small, untreated room - office.
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You can attenuate the sound (boost absorb) with wideband bass traps that have an air gap in the corners to improve absorption (the air gap shouldn't be greater than the thickness of your porous absorber). There are also membrane bass traps designed for very low frequencies. But it's not precise from one product to another. GIK Acoustik is reputable (you can trust them), you can also build your own, it just requires a good tutorial (not easy)
For very low frequencies like 20/30Hz/40Hz/50Hz at full volume, it's impossible in a small room... however, you can start (absorb) with some minor improvements.
The corners of your rooms are essential areas to treat for very low frequencies (infrasound)... it's better than nothing.
Many people neglect the air gap; it's a game changer.
Starting at a thickness of 40cm to 60cm or more + air gap equivalent, the results are already superb; absorption below 40Hz begins... and that's already a significant improvement.
The problem for some will be lack of space; be aware that if your room is too small, 10 square meters, avoid subwoofers or speakers with excessive bass extension. Once again, the Genelec 8010 demonstrates its versatility for office use (it's a true all-rounder). Its performance is exceptional for its size; aside from its volume level and slightly less pronounced bass extension, I don't notice any major difference compared to the 8030. The 8010 is essentially a mini 8030.
With less bass, which is also an advantage for office use if your room isn't acoustically treated, it doesn't matter. With a subwoofer, the sound should be better for office use in a small room (proximity).
Be sure to place rigid surfaces in front of all your absorbers to avoid absorbing high frequencies and preserving your treble, thus maintaining a sense of life in the room and preventing it from becoming "dead" due to the absorption. Diffusers are also essential, even in small rooms. Use 1D diffusers at the rear of the room and 2D diffusers on the rear ceiling.
To summarize :
- Absorb early reflections near your listening area
- Absorb broadband low frequencies (with an air gap for improved performance/absorption) + a rigid surface to retain high frequencies
- Install 1D diffusers at the rear of the room (and side walls: bonus) + 2D diffusers (rear ceiling) => manage as you see fit; the idea is to avoid having any dead zones.
(Do not add more absorbers than those described for small rooms)
Please note that this is a home studio method... but don't imagine the workload in professional studios and cinemas. I know some people who have already shared their experiences with me; it's an extremely complicated profession.
The fewer speakers you have, the less complicated things become... so stay humble, haha. Long live (basic) home studios!
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